The Big Picture: Skin Deep

[Kuth]

Being mixed I could care less about the color of the guy who plays the role but I see the valid arguments. Bob is right, it's a double standard but that's just life. On that note, did any make this much of a big deal when Samuel Jackson took the role as Nick Fury? Well no, several reasons being him in the comic books for a time gave the whole racial tension a nice buffer. So when it did come out, Samuel Jackson doing Nick Fury was more on the lines of "hell yeah!" then "Hell No!"

But more to the point, Movie Bob is right. The man did his job, most people are done with it and life goes on. I mean hell, if I try to go into acting my roles would be limited and sadly would be in racial sterotypes that are not even my race.

 

[For.I.Am.Mad]

I need to give props to my fellow Americans. The bigots of Hollywood thought they could cash in on white bitterness this year but they miscalculated. Ticket sales are down and Fast Five beat out Thor for domestic opening weekend. The bigots of Hollywood can still peddle out that bigoted crap to the international market but in America it's not working.

And to the bigots of Hollywood. FUCK. YOU. And Tron Legacy sucked.

 

[Dansrage]

[rant] I am so goddamn tired of this pervasive and insulting trend of white guilt, the sins of the fathers, as if i can be responsable for ancient atrocities simply because of who my ancestors were. My ancestors never owned slaves, my ancestors are Danish on my father's side and Welsh on my mother's, am i also responsable for viking attacks on the English? Should i go find some descendant of Anglo peasants and give him money because my great great great great great great uncle twice removed on my father's side killed his sheep? Since my ancestors also lived in England should i go find an Irish guy and apologise to him for something that is entirely out of my control and should by all rights be forgotten? Should i pay reperations to India, or what about the Americans themselves, surely i owe them millions of Euros for the revolutionary war?
White guilt is BLATANT and REPULSIVE racism towards whites, MY RACE, oh, i forgot, whites aren't allowed to be a race because only white people can be racist.
FUCK YOU Bob, have some pride, nay, have some DIGNITY.
Slavery justifies NOTHING, not a single black person living in America today is or ever was a slave, not a single white person living in the entire western world was or is a slave owner, i don't know if you noticed but the evil white monsters freed all the slaves. Slavery is not a "get out of jail free" card, you can't justify ANYTHING that way.
"Hurr durr it's okay to cast a traditional white role as a black man because slavery durr", bullshit. Would you cast Blade as a white guy? Would you make a movie about Nelson Mandela as played by Nicholas Cage? Of course fucking not, it's got NOTHING TO DO WITH RACE, it's common sense, and a Nordic God should not be played by a black man, not because i'm an evil slave owning racist, but BECAUSE NORSE GODS ARE WHITE.
The fucking stupidity of you people amazes me, you allow the REAL racists, the people demanding you pay reperations simply because of your skin colour, to walk all over you in the name of equality. Equality is not one group getting handouts and privelages because of the colour of their skin.

I don't give two shits who plays this guy, i'm not even familiar with the comic books, but the outrage on both sides repulses me, racism only becomes an issue when you MAKE IT AN ISSUE.
I hope you read this Bob, you idiot. [/rant]

I'll probably get banned now for being an evil neo-Nazi fascist who hates freedom, go ahead, but i've said my piece.

 

[googleback]

the man himself Idris Elba doesn't want race to be a part of the discussion when it comes to his character.
I believe in casting that is only Racially profiling when the character is WRITTEN as that particular race. and by that I mean not just a casual "he's white btw" from the writer.

The Reason James Bond is white is because back when the character was originally written you wouldn't have seen a black guy in such a position. especially in that backwards and primitive time of segregation and prejudice...

Today? why couldn't he be? why couldn't (for example) IDRIS ELBA (one of my country's FINEST film actors) PLAY A BRITISH SECRET AGENT? Just throwing it out there!

seriously! think back over Casino Royale and just copy Paste Elba over Daniel Craig? bond is pretty ambiguous as it is right? can anybody REALLY tell me he couldn't pull it off?

 

[Mantonio]

I see where you're coming from, but I heavily disagree that we should have a double standard now because of a double standard in the past. On a basic lever, two wrongs don't make a right. On a more advanced level, switching your favouritism from one group to another with the logic of 'Now it's your turn' has shown in the past (and maybe even still nowadays) to actually make things worse, and cause resentment on both sides.

 

[TheSchaef]

Posted separately so as not to get lost in the tome I just wrote, but Bob MUST DO SAMURAI PIZZA CATS! What is better than a spoof on the ninja turtles, which itself used to be a spoof on superhero comics?

Taking a sidebar from that, I was always curious to get Bob's thoughts on the TMNT reboot from a couple years back, and the recent studio decision to go back to real-life actors in rubber costumes for the upcoming re-reboot.

 

[ultimateownage]

Actually, Nick Fury was white in one universe and black in another.

 

[funguy2121]

Hell yeah, Bob. I especially liked your comments regarding "political correctness."

 

[Niljen]

I think it's totaly okay to replace a white charakter with an Black actor. Good example for this were the FF4 movies in which Jessica Alba played the invisible woman....what? She is not black?....Uhm....so what about Dwayne the Rock Johnson...he is black, right!? ^^

 

[Archmike]

Pwnd it there bob. Nice one

Samurai Pizza Cats next please!

Edit: Oooh or Thundercats! ^_^

 

[A Curious Fellow]

Um..

Excuse me, Mr. Chipman sir?

...


...Can I hug you?

 

[Darkstrike_11]

Two things:

1) Fine, I'm not suggesting that you qualify everything as your opinion, its an opinion show, and that's fine, you have some interesting and well thought out OPINIONS. My issue is: why call the show "the big picture"- a phrase used to mean "the wider truth" or "in reality". Then , why have a little sign off each week saying "that's the big picture" as in, that is all the truth. Really grinds me up. Especially since Bob (rightly) has a lot of respect amongst the escapist community, and people will believe what he says (I certainly do take his opinions on comics as fact, since i know nothing about it). I just wish the programme wasn't marketed as "here bob speaks the truth" when it is a very subjective opinions show. Thats it.

2) I agree, OK OK its a double standard, but when you consider that EVERYONE in the Thor pantheon is white, then it makes sense that they don't necessarily have to be in the movie. In original Norse mythology, the gods are all white because the NORDS are white. That makes sense. In the Thor comic book mythology, the Norse gods exist, but they aren't Nordic. They are essentially extra terrestrials. That doesn't mean they should all be white, since they aren't the idea of a load of white men, they are reality. Thus casting Heimdal as black is fine, especially since Elba was really bloody good in the film.

Then theres the Penny Arcade angle: pretty much the rest of the film is about white power, one character change is a drop in the ocean.

 

[daxterx2005]

This episode reminded me of a convo I had with my lady friend.

me: Sam Jackson was awesome as nick fury! But then again he's usually awesome in anything he plays.
her: Well yeah...Sam jackson is col and all, but Nick Fury is white they shouldn't have casted sam for that role.
me: You know Nick Fury was black in the Ultimate continuity right?
her: yeah, but this movie wasn't in the ultimates continuity....
me: yeah well it wasn't in the original continuity either so I dont see why you'd make that point >.>


Moral of the story, is every adaptation where you see a race swap shouldn't matter because its a new continuity entirely so they arent "changing the character" since its a new one to start with.

 

[Mantonio]

the man himself Idris Elba doesn't want race to be a part of the discussion when it comes to his character.
I believe in casting that is only Racially profiling when the character is WRITTEN as that particular race. and by that I mean not just a casual "he's white btw" from the writer.

The Reason James Bond is white is because back when the character was originally written you wouldn't have seen a black guy in such a position. especially in that backwards and primitive time of segregation and prejudice...

Today? why couldn't he be? why couldn't (for example) IDRIS ELBA (one of my country's FINEST film actors) PLAY A BRITISH SECRET AGENT? Just throwing it out there!

seriously! think back over Casino Royale and just copy Paste Elba over Daniel Craig? bond is pretty ambiguous as it is right?

Well unfortunately, the fan theory of 'James Bond' just being a code name, a theory that would erase all continuity issues, issues with different actors and levels of seriousness and allow any type of race into the role... isn't canon. James Bond being an actual person is.

While it could still work, granted, it would be much harder to pull off.

 

[Bobic]

My mind kind of wondered to SAMURI PIZZA CATS! OH YEAH!

Is it ok that I, a British person, find the casting of a nordic god as black a bit daft because I am without all that slave owning history guilt? (Although I am sure Idris is awesome in Thor as he is a great actor. I saw his BBC series Luther and he kicked ass, you should all go watch it now)

What? Unless your Scottish, yes you do. Where do you think early america learned every thing it did? Racist fairies?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Britain_and_Ireland

Bah, most of those slaves probably weren't black. But, for the sake of those few that were. I'll go with the 'why should I be blamed what some people who probably aren't even related to me did 200 years ago just because I happen to be the same ethnicity' argument. In fact, I'd say it's racist of you to act like it's my fault simply because I share the same ethnicity.

Fine by me, I'm just saying its not to different form America, which abolished it only 32 years later. So no, I don't think you should be held acceptable, and believe me I've been called a slave owner, Native American killer, and Pagan killer directly to my face based on my ethnicity and religious background. I know the receiving end of racism. But America and Britain aren't that different, and I'm not completely sure of this, but I don't think every brit lacks "white guilt". But it all comes down to racial inequality that was quite prevalent in the time when super heros were being developed. Since its hard to find big name non-white heros, they settle for changing insularly characters, even if said character comes form something directly inspired by something European.

If they really wanted to avoid a completely white cast they should have changed Natalie Portman's character or something. Have a love interest that's black. That's practically unheard of in Hollywood.

 

[OldRat]

Yeah, I guess this is more or less an America thing. In here, in the northern part of Europe, nobody cares about the double standard all that much. The ones who complain here tend to complain exactly for the reason Bob thinks people don't complain there. Namely, that it's silly to alter something pointlessly like that in any direction, black or white.

There's never really been that kind of racial tension or a history of oppression here (in this part of Europe. I don't need to hear about colonialism, thank you very much), so I guess it's just hard to see the point all that clearly. Black actor or white actor (or actor of some other color) doesn't, in itself, matter here all that much.
So yeah, no white guilt, no real understanding of the issue.

 

[The_ModeRazor]

Black people seem to be strangely popular in Hungary. Probably because Hungary never had too much to do with black people throughout history. Gypsy people... now that's a veeery different matter. Let's not go into that.
Oh, another thing crossed my mind: we seem to like Turks here, and I have no idea how it is the other way around, but this is pretty strange, considering the hundreds of years of warfare, occupation and general fuckery between the two groups. The same goes for the Germans (also occupied by them for a long time) and Russians (ditto occupied by): there doesn't seem to be any tension. Not so with Slovakia or Romania, so it isn't even just the skin color difference.

I guess people are just plain fucking insane.

 

[leviadragon99]

Well-said, sometimes a double-standard is the best way to at least partly balance out a greater problem.

 

[googleback]

the man himself Idris Elba doesn't want race to be a part of the discussion when it comes to his character.
I believe in casting that is only Racially profiling when the character is WRITTEN as that particular race. and by that I mean not just a casual "he's white btw" from the writer.

The Reason James Bond is white is because back when the character was originally written you wouldn't have seen a black guy in such a position. especially in that backwards and primitive time of segregation and prejudice...

Today? why couldn't he be? why couldn't (for example) IDRIS ELBA (one of my country's FINEST film actors) PLAY A BRITISH SECRET AGENT? Just throwing it out there!

seriously! think back over Casino Royale and just copy Paste Elba over Daniel Craig? bond is pretty ambiguous as it is right?

Well unfortunately, the fan theory of 'James Bond' just being a code name, a theory that would erase all continuity issues, issues with different actors and levels of seriousness and allow any type of race into the role... isn't canon. James Bond being an actual person is.

While it could still work, granted, it would be much harder to pull off.

yeah I guess your right. It feels like the character of bond has become more than just one man in a sort of Timelord way but I think at the end of the day they could get away with it. be a ballsy move. He would definitely play the shit out of it though! ;p

 

[ZeoAssassin]

honestly i agreed pretty much completely but i would take 2(maybe 3) exceptions to what Bob said.

1. there should NOT be any race changing for anything based in historical characters. People in the past like JFK, Patton, MLK etc should clearly stay the race they were in real life.

2. If the character's race is an integral part of defining that specific character. i think Static from Static Shock is a good example of this.

if a character doesn't apply to the above rules than by all means change it. Just please do it in a reboot, legacy thing, or just in a way that isn't that makes it a plot hole.

funny i was reminded of this from the video...Green Lantern time fuckery that turns the Jon Steward-Black version into the older Hal Jordon-White version

on last thing...if say they changed Batman to a black character, i would think it adds a whole new depth to his motivation given his origin story, if anything it could potentially make the character or Batman/Bruce Wayn more interesting. Just a thought given the subject.