The Big Picture: Skin Deep

[Jim-a-Lim]

Can I just say (firstly great video) that I never understood why we are supposed to be calling black people black and not coloured. I get all the other terms being taboo and I agree: the terminology can suck a donkey dong. Racism is utterly ridiculous, but if I were black I would prefer being called coloured, just sounds happier/nicer? No? just me? I live with 3 black guys by the way so don't label me as racist or UN-pc because I am not. I just think the terminology is weird that way .

 

[Mr.Squishy]

Dear Bob.
I can't be arsed to repeat what I've already said on this issue in full, but basically, it would be really fucking nice if people would stop shitting all over the collective scandinavian cultural heritage. What really makes it come off as trolling is that Heimdall is specifically known as "The WHITE god", in a world where having black hair would land you the title 'the black'. Also, pulling the slavery card is bull****, not only because Scandinavia has stayed out of that mess, but also because I'm not a believer in the logic that "What happened 200-300 years ago shall haunt the ancestors foreveeer". It's called white guilt, and I'm mighty sick of it. Because, really, do I look in the mirror every morning and say "Ah, today I'm going to oppress some black people!"? No? Have I ever? No. And neither did my father, nor my father before him, nor his father before him, etc. etc.
Also, double standards are double standards no way how you twist and turn it, and are invariably unfair and pretty much always ridiculous.
*sigh*
[sub]Concentrate on the ponies...[/sub]

 

[SOCIALCONSTRUCT]

I was born after slavery, Jim Crow, etc and I reject the idea that I owe some sort of historical debt.

If you're white and American, then you benefit from that history of slavery, Jim Crow, etc. Why shouldn't you owe a debt?

Because I didn't do anything. The fact that I benefited is not my fault and I cannot make the benefits go away.

You're benefiting at the expense of others.

You could argue that all of humanity benefited from slaves (not just African slaves, but any slave going back to ancient times).

No, but you can (a) recognize the fact that you have benefited and (b) don't claim that you don't owe that benefit to the burden of others.

JDKJ you are surely a troll. I bet you are sat there right now with your gleaming troll face smile, nice and fat from all the feeding that every one has given you this evening?

(a) He did recognise that he benefited - "The fact that I benefited"

(b) He actually went so far in the other direction to what you claim he is claiming... right that is hard to understand. To clarify, you seem to think that he doesn't think he owes any one for the "benefit" when in fact he says that every one owes the "benefits" to every one. He transcends the whole Black & White relationship extending the "racism and slavery is bad" to a much wider spectrum of social status and race. - "You could argue that all of humanity benefited from slaves (not just African slaves, but any slave going back to ancient times)"

I do not think I owe anyone for slavery (since I'm not a slaveowner and I never fought to keep slavery legal etc.). However if we're going to start doing this why stop at African slaves? Why not go back to the slaves of ancient times?

It's not that simple. If you're white and American, the long and, arguably, still continuing history of repression and oppression of racial minorities by the white majority better positions you to compete for scare resources and opportunities (e.g., schools, jobs, etc.) than the minorities who have historically been kept from the field of competition.

1. Yes but that is different from slavery, yet slavery is still invoked as a debt that all white people share.

2. Also in the past, before my time. That is last millennium's business. Not my responsibility.

No need to repeat yourself. I long ago understood your position on the matter and had stopped responding to you.

#1 is not repetition and a continuation from discussion from previous posts. You said I benefited from slavery, but what describe above is distinct from slavery.

 

[Rikortez]

Well, i do NOT agree, but respect your opinion Bob.

 

[HuCast]

The NORSE gods are exactly that, fucking Norse. They're the depiction of the archetypal European.

But he isn't a Norse god. He is a comic book character. He is one fictional being based on another ficitional being.

Sure if this was a history channel special then the actor in the recreation should be caucasion, but this is a comic book movie and this guy is not supposed to be an actual representation of a norse god.

Thor is not a representation of Norse mthyology, it is a comic series based upon the mythology, so the characters can be cast however Marvel studios/the director chooses to cast them.

It doesn't matter that they're in a comic, they're still Norse gods.

Marvel sure can cast who ever it likes. Casting a black person as an ancient European god isn't even the strangest thing they've done to them. That doesn't stop them from being Norse gods though.

Like I said in my previous post. The casting isn't going to sway me either way on the film. I'm just pointing out why it's bugging some people.

But they aren't Norse gods. They are comic book character's based on Norse mythology.

Also Hemidall was black in an issue of Thor: The Mighty Avenger...

So Captain America could be a french guy because he is just a fictional character? just asking

 

[Nautical Honors Society]

The NORSE gods are exactly that, fucking Norse. They're the depiction of the archetypal European.

But he isn't a Norse god. He is a comic book character. He is one fictional being based on another ficitional being.

Sure if this was a history channel special then the actor in the recreation should be caucasion, but this is a comic book movie and this guy is not supposed to be an actual representation of a norse god.

Thor is not a representation of Norse mthyology, it is a comic series based upon the mythology, so the characters can be cast however Marvel studios/the director chooses to cast them.

It doesn't matter that they're in a comic, they're still Norse gods.

Marvel sure can cast who ever it likes. Casting a black person as an ancient European god isn't even the strangest thing they've done to them. That doesn't stop them from being Norse gods though.

Like I said in my previous post. The casting isn't going to sway me either way on the film. I'm just pointing out why it's bugging some people.

But they aren't Norse gods. They are comic book character's based on Norse mythology.

Also Hemidall was black in an issue of Thor: The Mighty Avenger...

I often wondered how Marvel's Tarzan survived the African sun without being lathered from head to toe in SPF 110. Now I know: it's bullshit!! "Lord of the Jungle" my ass.

He survived because it was a comic book. Are you trying to be clever? If so it isn't translating well.

And comic book Suns don't cause blistering sunburn? Just asking. I'm no Stan Lee.

Well you are trolling so I will leave you with this, you can do whatever you want in ficition and ignore any factual principles you want.

Have a good day.

 

[JDKJ]

The NORSE gods are exactly that, fucking Norse. They're the depiction of the archetypal European.

But he isn't a Norse god. He is a comic book character. He is one fictional being based on another ficitional being.

Sure if this was a history channel special then the actor in the recreation should be caucasion, but this is a comic book movie and this guy is not supposed to be an actual representation of a norse god.

Thor is not a representation of Norse mthyology, it is a comic series based upon the mythology, so the characters can be cast however Marvel studios/the director chooses to cast them.

It doesn't matter that they're in a comic, they're still Norse gods.

Marvel sure can cast who ever it likes. Casting a black person as an ancient European god isn't even the strangest thing they've done to them. That doesn't stop them from being Norse gods though.

Like I said in my previous post. The casting isn't going to sway me either way on the film. I'm just pointing out why it's bugging some people.

But they aren't Norse gods. They are comic book character's based on Norse mythology.

Also Hemidall was black in an issue of Thor: The Mighty Avenger...

They have referred to themselves as gods on more than one occasion. They are the Norse gods of the Marvel universe. The fact that they're in a comic doesn't really mean anything. It certainly doesn't mean they aren't Norse gods.

Also, how is the second part relevant? Marvel butcher every piece of outside inspiration they can get their hands on. That's what they do. I'm not expecting an accurate representation of source material when I watch or read something marvel... I think I must have pointed this about about 3-4 times by now. I'm pretty much just playing devils advocate here. I'm pointing out what is annoying OTHER people.

(I have also never been able to find the issue where Hemidall was black.)

It is Thor: The Mighty Avenger #6

Spoiler:

and because they are the Norse gods of the Marvel Universe means that Marvel can do whatever they want to them and not worry about historical accuracy.

Ok I understand you are playing devils advocate, I am just saying why people shouldn't be annoyed that all...we can end this now haha

Actually, he's not playing Devil's advocate. He actually believes that the mythological nature of the Norse gods isn't in any way undermined by their appearance in a comic book. Kinda like those folk who believe that if you have two Wonder Twin rings and you stick 'em together while reciting the words "Wonder Twin powers . . . activate!" it's possible to assume the shape of a bucket and the form of water.

 

[Luthir Fontaine]

Good points bob

 

[Powerman88]

Bob, big fan but this series is hit or miss in general. Today, BIG HIT! Very well said sir. Very impressed here.

 

[Nautical Honors Society]

The NORSE gods are exactly that, fucking Norse. They're the depiction of the archetypal European.

But he isn't a Norse god. He is a comic book character. He is one fictional being based on another ficitional being.

Sure if this was a history channel special then the actor in the recreation should be caucasion, but this is a comic book movie and this guy is not supposed to be an actual representation of a norse god.

Thor is not a representation of Norse mthyology, it is a comic series based upon the mythology, so the characters can be cast however Marvel studios/the director chooses to cast them.

It doesn't matter that they're in a comic, they're still Norse gods.

Marvel sure can cast who ever it likes. Casting a black person as an ancient European god isn't even the strangest thing they've done to them. That doesn't stop them from being Norse gods though.

Like I said in my previous post. The casting isn't going to sway me either way on the film. I'm just pointing out why it's bugging some people.

But they aren't Norse gods. They are comic book character's based on Norse mythology.

Also Hemidall was black in an issue of Thor: The Mighty Avenger...

So Captain America could be a french guy because he is just a fictional character? just asking

No, because him being an American soldier is a significant part of most Captain America stories, Heimdall being white isn't really that significant to any plot lines. His race doesn't affect anything, while Captain America's nationality does.

Captain America can be black or have french ancestry or be played by a french actor, but the character has to be an American since that is an important part of the story.

But technically he is a fictional character so yes he can be french why not. I have limited personal stake in the realms of fantasy.

 

[Nautical Honors Society]

The NORSE gods are exactly that, fucking Norse. They're the depiction of the archetypal European.

But he isn't a Norse god. He is a comic book character. He is one fictional being based on another ficitional being.

Sure if this was a history channel special then the actor in the recreation should be caucasion, but this is a comic book movie and this guy is not supposed to be an actual representation of a norse god.

Thor is not a representation of Norse mthyology, it is a comic series based upon the mythology, so the characters can be cast however Marvel studios/the director chooses to cast them.

It doesn't matter that they're in a comic, they're still Norse gods.

Marvel sure can cast who ever it likes. Casting a black person as an ancient European god isn't even the strangest thing they've done to them. That doesn't stop them from being Norse gods though.

Like I said in my previous post. The casting isn't going to sway me either way on the film. I'm just pointing out why it's bugging some people.

But they aren't Norse gods. They are comic book character's based on Norse mythology.

Also Hemidall was black in an issue of Thor: The Mighty Avenger...

They have referred to themselves as gods on more than one occasion. They are the Norse gods of the Marvel universe. The fact that they're in a comic doesn't really mean anything. It certainly doesn't mean they aren't Norse gods.

Also, how is the second part relevant? Marvel butcher every piece of outside inspiration they can get their hands on. That's what they do. I'm not expecting an accurate representation of source material when I watch or read something marvel... I think I must have pointed this about about 3-4 times by now. I'm pretty much just playing devils advocate here. I'm pointing out what is annoying OTHER people.

(I have also never been able to find the issue where Hemidall was black.)

It is Thor: The Mighty Avenger #6

Spoiler:

and because they are the Norse gods of the Marvel Universe means that Marvel can do whatever they want to them and not worry about historical accuracy.

Ok I understand you are playing devils advocate, I am just saying why people shouldn't be annoyed that all...we can end this now haha

Cool. So did they just have him as black for that one issue, or did they do it for that entire series?

Was it just a plug for the film or was the issue released a long time before the films was being made?

I don't know if it was for that one issue, but I am assuming yes.

And it was released before the film.

 

[rda_Highlander]

Samurai Pizza Cats! Hell yeah! The best NES game ever made! Oh, it was also an animation? Anyway, I now have a bad case of nostalgia.

 

[Mxrz]

I disagree to race being the motivating factor.

My argument: American Godzilla.

 

[Alphakirby]

It's official, Ponies have taken over the escapist.

And I love it

Damnit YOU NINJA!
Yeah,I was just about to bring up that Bob used Ponies as an example for an "ideal world".
But without the "Love" part.

Damn ponies,next thing you know,our resident tosser will like them.
And our newbie and less talented tosser would go next.

 

[Doitpow]

snip

This'll doubtless be a drop in an angry sea, but I just wanna say I'm right behind ya here Bob. In fact it is your de-idealisation of issues like this that drew me to you in the first place, back in the Resident Evil 5 days. If this means anything, I'm a social anthropology graduate and your ability to root this discussion in a proper historical context sets you apart from the majority of social commentary on the internet.

also for a probable upcoming race-nerd disaster look at speculation on the casting for the upcoming live action Akira movie.

 

[Swarles]

Very good episode with great insight. Also............PONIES!!!!!

 

[Swarles]

...Anyway, I now have a bad case of nostalgia.

The last thing you want to do then is watch any of these... http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic

Oh My god someone put up a nostalgia critic reference, thats the best thing I've ever heard in my life. (Just read that in a Chester A. Bum voice)

 

[octafish]

Does anyone else think that black superman is a great idea? Cause I sure as hell do

There already was one...

I agree wholeheartedly with Moviebob here.

 

[Togs]

Come for the well reasoned insightful opinions, stay for the flame wars that erupt afterwards.

 

[Benjamin Zeledon]

Great show Bob! =)

Er, still other things do exist though. I.E, why is Bane being played by a British actor? He is one of the few if any Latino DC characters in existence...and this?