The Big Picture: Superman Revisited

Hutzpah Chicken

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Red X said:
Darth_Payn said:
Was that what Infinite Crisis was about? I have some research to do.
I don't think so, IC was about Superman being damn near ineffectual despite his power it appears he makes no real imapct like the burn Batman gave him when he said The Biggest impact was when he bit the dust

Love this scene. (One of the few times Johns rights Batman well)
I was more meaning Superman from Earth-2 who thought he was creating the perfect Earth by resurrecting Earth-2.
You know, this guy.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090608175315/superman/images/3/30/Superman_Kal-L.jpg
 

Hutzpah Chicken

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Sheen Lantern said:
Mr_Terrific said:
Sheen Lantern said:
Mr_Terrific said:
Sheen Lantern said:
Ukomba said:
The main problem with superman recently is just how ultimately strong and invisible he is. He seems to be running into the mudflation. Someone makes a super strong superhero, and superman has to be stronger. Someone makes a super fast superhero, and superman has to be faster.
You do realise Superman isn't even in the Top 5 of the most powerful Justice League member.

He's not even in the top 100, or even 1000 most powerful DC character.
What? Is this sarcasm? Never been good at detecting sarcasm that is blatantly wrong or misleading....
I take it you've never actually read a DC comic?
I have a problem with him not being in the top 100 or 1000 as you put it. For the sake of him not being god and for the sake of teams like the JLA staying relevant, you have to have people like Darkseid and Monitors and Paralaxx being insanely strong. But based on everything you claim to know about comics, how could you drop Superman out of the top 100?

That's what I don't get.
Presence
Great Evil Beast
The Source
Rama Kushna
Lucifer
Michael
Time Trapper
Mr. Mxyzptlk
Bat-Mite
Emperor Joker
Life
Butcher
Ophidian
Parallax
Ion
Entity
Adara
Proselyte
Predator
Black Hand
Nekron
Lord Satanus
Eclipso
Helspont
Mandrakk
Neron
Yuga Khan
S'ivaa
Gog
Rao
Cythonna
Imperiex
Spectre
Zor
Monitor
Anti-Monitor
Phantom Stranger
Gaea
John Dee
Dreamslayer
Despero
PC Mongul
Trigon
Krona
Shazam (The Wizard)
Guardians of the Universe
Doomsday (Magog)
Superboy Prime
Eradicator
Zeus
Sandman
Darkseid
Dr. Fate
Zoom
Professor Zoom
Waverider
Barry Allen
Wally West
Jay Garrick
Monarch
Jenny Quantum
Arion
Swamp Thing
Ares
Amazo
Starbreaker
Marshal
Armek
Protex
A-Mortal
ZüM
D'Kay D'Razz
Martian Manhunter
Primaid
Zenturion
Tronix
Miss Martian
Fluxus
Malefic
Captain Atom
Major Force
Firestorm
Fury
Orion
Firehawk
Hurricane
Mr. Majestic
Black Adam
Circe
White Lantern Hal Jordan
Hawkgirl (White Lantern)
Starheart Alan Scott
Ion Kyle Rayner
Star Sapphire
Larfleeze <-----
Atrocitus
Saint Walker
Sinestro
Breach
Captain Comet


That's how.
Hold up, you're saying that Larfleeze ranks over Superman? This guy?
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2010/09/larfleezegl56.jpg
Yeah, he's a great comic relief character, but you're saying he is better/stronger than Superman? Sounds a bit sketchy.
 

Sheen Lantern

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Hutzpah Chicken said:
Sheen Lantern said:
Hutzpah Chicken said:
Hold up, you're saying that Larfleeze ranks over Superman?
Yes, by far.
You're going to have to explain that one to me. I don't see it.
I don't get your confusion, you have no problem with Atrocitus or Sinestro being on the list, yet Larfleeze is stronger than either..
 

Hutzpah Chicken

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Sheen Lantern said:
Hutzpah Chicken said:
Sheen Lantern said:
Hutzpah Chicken said:
Hold up, you're saying that Larfleeze ranks over Superman?
Yes, by far.
You're going to have to explain that one to me. I don't see it.
I don't get your confusion, you have no problem with Atrocitus or Sinestro being on the list, yet Larfleeze is stronger than either..
He is a silly character that I've always seen doing something that makes me chuckle. I haven't really seen him do anything big other than fight with Orange lantern Lex Luthor. It just strikes me as an odd idea, thats all.
 

Sheen Lantern

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Hutzpah Chicken said:
Sheen Lantern said:
Hutzpah Chicken said:
Sheen Lantern said:
Hutzpah Chicken said:
Hold up, you're saying that Larfleeze ranks over Superman?
Yes, by far.
You're going to have to explain that one to me. I don't see it.
I don't get your confusion, you have no problem with Atrocitus or Sinestro being on the list, yet Larfleeze is stronger than either..
He is a silly character that I've always seen doing something that makes me chuckle. I haven't really seen him do anything big other than fight with Orange lantern Lex Luthor. It just strikes me as an odd idea, thats all.
And? Mr. Mxyztplk is a silly character but no one argues that he's not one of the most powerful fictional characters ever.
 

TheSchaef

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It seems almost wrong to interrupt this shouting match over where Superman ranks on the power scale. IMO the only time Supes genuinely got taken down was by Batman in TDKR, but if you disagree go argue with someone else, cause I'm moving on...

... to say that, despite my excitement for the new movie, I thought Returns was (nominally) better than the hate it received. Granted, the story was a mess, the kid was a stupid addition, and Marsden looked like he was mailing it in AGAIN. But while Brandon Routh was only an okay Superman, I thought he was fantastic as Clark. Is it because he was channeling Reeves? Probably. Don't care. It was great.

It also left me hoping beyond hope that, like the last film, they reuse the Williams themes in the soundtrack. Like with Star Wars or Indiana Jones, those themes define the character on film like nothing else, and I got all giddy every time the music popped up in a recent rerun of the film on cable. Please please please use the Williams themes in the new film.
 

Hutzpah Chicken

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Red X said:
Hutzpah Chicken said:
Red X said:
Darth_Payn said:
Was that what Infinite Crisis was about? I have some research to do.
I don't think so, IC was about Superman being damn near ineffectual despite his power it appears he makes no real imapct like the burn Batman gave him when he said The Biggest impact was when he bit the dust

Love this scene. (One of the few times Johns rights Batman well)
I was more meaning Superman from Earth-2 who thought he was creating the perfect Earth by resurrecting Earth-2.
You know, this guy.
http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090608175315/superman/images/3/30/Superman_Kal-L.jpg
That was Alexanda and Superboys plan in secret, Earth-2 Kal-L was just sick of the way the heroes where killing each other hurting the world and seemingly making things worse and Alex took advantage of that
My point exactly. He wanted to fix things to, in his mind, the perfect way they were in the past. Obviously, how he would have dealt with things would eventually lead to the same moral degradation of Earth-1 anyways, but that leads back to my second point that Superman's actions of what he perceives as good cause greater problems in the world.

Sound like movie for the modern masses? I'm just spit-ballin' here, btw. No biggie.
 

Edguy

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Froggy Slayer said:
Looking at the reviews it looks like it's going to be pretty damn divisive. Like Watchmen-type divisive.
Being one of those who liked Watchmen (like, it's up there with TDK for me), I'm crossing my fingers. I would really hate this film not to work..
 

Froggy Slayer

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With regards to the Superman power scale thing, the simple answer is that really, it varies by writer. Some of those on the list, like Sinestro, Atrocious and the various Green Lanterns have been both shown as stronger and weaker than Superman. We also have to take into account when Superman empowers himself by absorbing solar radiation, so there is room for fluctuation.
 

Jegsimmons

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MovieBob said:
Superman Revisited

MovieBob takes us behind the cape with a look at Superman and his movies.

Watch Video
Good news for movie bob......its getting good reviews.

Aside from Rotten Tomatos, but im accounting that to vote bombing and trolls because no one has seen the movie yet and very few people even voted.
 

Daria.Morgendorffer

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Edguy said:
Froggy Slayer said:
Looking at the reviews it looks like it's going to be pretty damn divisive. Like Watchmen-type divisive.
Being one of those who liked Watchmen (like, it's up there with TDK for me), I'm crossing my fingers. I would really hate this film not to work..
Count me in as one of the people who liked Watchmen. I thought it was a fine piece of work for what it was, and what it made up for in the shortcomings of its source material (alien squid??)

To say nothing of the fact that I think it has one of the best title sequences in modern movies AND the use of "The Sound of Silence" was damn near perfect.
 

Edguy

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Daria.Morgendorffer said:
To say nothing of the fact that I think it has one of the best title sequences in modern movies AND the use of "The Sound of Silence" was damn near perfect.
I generally love the use of music in Watchmen, including All Along the Watchtower, First we take Manhattan and The Times they are a-Changin' :)
 

Daria.Morgendorffer

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So I finally got around to seeing this (what? I'm kind of a grownup with other things to do), and you will never get me to believe this is a Zach Snyder movie written by David Goyer. It looks, talks and feels like a Christopher Nolan movie.

Which isn't really bad in some ways. I like the way he tries to find how something would "work" in the "real world". He isn't always successful at it, but in this case, this is truly difficult material to work with.

I liked Michael Shannon and I really liked Russell Crowe. The former was easier to like because, hey, villain. The latter was more problematic, story-wise (maybe I missed it, but how the hell did he know who Lois Lane was?), but the performance was good.

I hated everything about Lois Lane. I haven't believed in the actress playing the character since Margot Kidder. She at least looked like she wasn't afraid to get her hands dirty. Amy Adams, and Kate Bosworth before her, have never believably looked like they "lived" hard enough to investigate stuff that would have won a Pulitzer. Adams especially in this role, never struck me as anything more than a marshmallow made to make concerned faces at the right moment and be there to be the guy people told stuff to so that we, the audience, understand it. (She was taken on board Zod's ship for no apparent reason, which could have been explained away at least with a single line of dialogue that she was recognized as non-military and was there for leverage. But I felt at that point, the female sub-commander, when explaining the decision, was talking directly to the audience when she said not to question it, which...boo, Snyder. I'm liking the Nolan-brand DC movies for the fact that they keep the winking at the audience to subtleties. Don't start going all Marvel on me.)

Which, going back to the whole "problematic material" thing: Superman doesn't have a sidekick, or if he does, it ain't one that non-followers of the comics know anything about. He doesn't have an audience proxy, so while I felt the whole Lois Lane thing was unnecessary, she was a bad fit for a role that WAS necessary.

Why did we care about Perry White and the Daily Planet crew again? I mean, I understand why that stuff was there (to give us the sense that bigger, badder stuff was happening than an extended alien fight) and we're supposed to care about them because the plot says so, but still...felt like too much work to care about these people for the motivation I was given to do so. (It was my snark side that said, when Perry says "You can't run this story", I said "oh, is he going to give her the red pill now?")

I liked the Costner/Lane stuff. Lane especially. I didn't hate Cavill and I'm not the biggest fan of Reeves, so I've got no personal stake in saying "oh, well, he's just not Christopher Reeves".

Oddly, I kind of liked this movie for all the complaints I had about it. It was uneven, sure, but, like I will contend forever, this is hard stuff to make into something organic that you can gloss over with a few snarky bits of dialogue, and it was fine for what it was.
 

lifeat24fps

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I agree with Bob 100%. The original isn't perfect, but it really does sell the origin. The Krypton prologue pulls you in despite the risk it took of boring little kids. With the new movie, I almost wish that WB had the balls to make the first movie a straight scifi epic about Krypton that ended with the rocket being launched. Honestly, how awesome would it have been if the plot had been announced, but when you went to the theater, you found out it was a Superman prelude?