The Big Picture: Superman Revisited
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The main problem with superman recently is just how ultimately strong and invisible he is. He seems to be running into the mudflation. Someone makes a super strong superhero, and superman has to be stronger. Someone makes a super fast superhero, and superman has to be faster. The portrayal of an ultimate good character only works if they have flaws in other places. If Captain America was as powerful as superman he wouldn't have been any where near as compelling. Even Jesus was flawed and had limited power. Superman is just supposed to be the super ultimate bestest best super hero ever.
New technology doesn't help. The older Superman movies were limited by what visuals you could do, so he comes off as more human in the older ones. Might be Christopher Reeves more down to earth nature helps too. This new movie seems to be attempting a more character driven piece, but I have a feeling they're going to still show him as infinitely strong/fast/ext.
New technology doesn't help. The older Superman movies were limited by what visuals you could do, so he comes off as more human in the older ones. Might be Christopher Reeves more down to earth nature helps too. This new movie seems to be attempting a more character driven piece, but I have a feeling they're going to still show him as infinitely strong/fast/ext.
Bob, your distaste towards Nolan's Bane continues to confuse and amuse me, but on every other point I couldn't agree more. Superman has already been adapted almost perfectly, twice, Superman II being at least as good as it's predecessor. It's just a shame both movies are so... 80s.
Well here's hoping Man of Steel is good. Not just cause I love Superman but because I also love a number of the other non-Batman DC heroes I want to see them get the movies like all the Marvel ones out there.
I really hope they let this new Superman have some fun. He's not Batman and if they turn him into some gritty, angst ridden, sullen anti-hero I'll be disapointed. Sure, he can get all serious and resolute when the time comes, but please let's not have him wander around scowling for the entire film. If I want to watch a big screen character assassination of Supes then I'd just watch Superman Returns.
It could be a tricky balancing act - keep Superman as an ultimately upbeat and optimistic character, without trying to impersonate Christopher Reeve. For me at least, Reeve embodies that part in a way that none of the actors who've played Batman come close to doing.
It could be a tricky balancing act - keep Superman as an ultimately upbeat and optimistic character, without trying to impersonate Christopher Reeve. For me at least, Reeve embodies that part in a way that none of the actors who've played Batman come close to doing.
I've always liked Superman in film. I'm not much of a fan of his comics because they have been running for so long that there's so much he's just already done that it's hard to invest in it. But film has, at least for my lifetime, been where Superman could (COULD) shine. The Donner films were great. I even enjoyed Lois&Clark back when it was new. Yeah it's stupid by today's standards, but back then it was pretty good at least. And Smallville wasn't too bad either, at least for the first half. Up until Lex left I'd say it was decent television and had a good momentum to it.
I'm a Zack Snyder fan already (even though I still don't like Sucker Punch) so I'm really excited for Man of Steel.
I'm a Zack Snyder fan already (even though I still don't like Sucker Punch) so I'm really excited for Man of Steel.
The Avengers 'Kiss' to the Justice Leagues 'beatles' LOL
As usual MovieBob shows a complete disregard for the rest of the world outside the good old US of A. You know, those other 6.5 BILLION people where Marvel is way more popular than DC, Batman being the one exception.
I really hope for DC's sake this movie is not just good, but great, cause anything less and it will be decades before they can catch up to Marvel. Though considering how little I care about the entire DC line-up, apart from Batman, you'll have to forgive me if I don't keep my thumbs crossed.
As usual MovieBob shows a complete disregard for the rest of the world outside the good old US of A. You know, those other 6.5 BILLION people where Marvel is way more popular than DC, Batman being the one exception.
I really hope for DC's sake this movie is not just good, but great, cause anything less and it will be decades before they can catch up to Marvel. Though considering how little I care about the entire DC line-up, apart from Batman, you'll have to forgive me if I don't keep my thumbs crossed.
To do Superman correctly for the modern era there are two options that you can go with.
1) You can depict Superman as the absolute symbol of Golden Age heroism in a world that is demoralized and corrupt.
2) Superman's flaws lie in what he believes is perfect and the right thing to do but his actions cause greater problems in the world, i.e. Infinite Crisis.
I also think that it would be cool if Ruin popped up in Man of Steel.
1) You can depict Superman as the absolute symbol of Golden Age heroism in a world that is demoralized and corrupt.
2) Superman's flaws lie in what he believes is perfect and the right thing to do but his actions cause greater problems in the world, i.e. Infinite Crisis.
I also think that it would be cool if Ruin popped up in Man of Steel.
I actually think that every single one of Superman movies was boring as watching flies fuck. Can't stand them. But the new one looks remarkable.
I agree.
We're living in an age where ever hero has to be an anti-hero. No one understand characters that just want to do good anymore because they think they're just one-dimensional boy scouts, while angry brooding murderous characters like Wolverine supposedly have depth...lol
(not saying I don't like Wolverine...honestly, I love him...but he is just a one-dimensional angry fuck...lol)
Up till now, the only other movie except for the original Superman movies with Chris Reeves that got it right was Captain American. Unfortunately for that movie though, after the genuinely good 1st act, the 2nd and 3rd went to shit as it became a bland mind numbing bore, as if the director just decided to finish it off and pass the character onto the Avengers. Also, HOW THE FUCK do you make Red Skull into a mind numbing bore of a character? Damn, that movie went to shit!
Oh, and as for Sam Raimi's Spiderman? Nope! He was just a one-dimensional forgettable goodie-two-shoes.
We're living in an age where ever hero has to be an anti-hero. No one understand characters that just want to do good anymore because they think they're just one-dimensional boy scouts, while angry brooding murderous characters like Wolverine supposedly have depth...lol
(not saying I don't like Wolverine...honestly, I love him...but he is just a one-dimensional angry fuck...lol)
Up till now, the only other movie except for the original Superman movies with Chris Reeves that got it right was Captain American. Unfortunately for that movie though, after the genuinely good 1st act, the 2nd and 3rd went to shit as it became a bland mind numbing bore, as if the director just decided to finish it off and pass the character onto the Avengers. Also, HOW THE FUCK do you make Red Skull into a mind numbing bore of a character? Damn, that movie went to shit!
Oh, and as for Sam Raimi's Spiderman? Nope! He was just a one-dimensional forgettable goodie-two-shoes.
Goody goody isn't the issue. Captain America is wholesome as corn flakes, and that movie rocked the box office worldwide. The problem is what do you do to challenge a hero that is more or less an omnipotent demigod? We're pretty much talking about someone who could (forgive the cross-publisher referencing here) probably punch out just about every character that has been in any of the Marvel movies aside from Galactus. The Hulk might take a few slugs to get the job done, but we are talking about the guy who is pretty much the apex superhero.Magog1 said:
The first movie pretty much had Supes running around rescuing people(and Luthor pulled out the green rocks). The second said "oh yeah? Well I'm going to pull out three Supermen. And they're evil." The rest of them all sucked, so we won't go into what they did. So I'm kind of curious as to what Snyder's answer to the problem will be.
I'm one of those people crossing his fingers for Man of Steel, Bob. Last I checked, Rotten Tomatoes has it rated at 74% but we shall see if those reviews hold up. It has a lot to do in order to get DC movies back on track and getting out from under the shadow of the original Superman movie is one of them. While it has some flaws, it still holds up on its own and proved that comic books could be done right.
Wonder if Bob will cover the other Superman movies in future Big Picture episodes?
Wonder if Bob will cover the other Superman movies in future Big Picture episodes?
I think he was making more of a point about how DC had the headstart in the film world by virtue of the fact that the original Superman and Batman were big success stories a good decade or so before Blade, X-men and Spiderman all hit the big time. That's how it came across to me at least.wiz828 said:
I just wish he'd give up piping on about the Avengers, it was a seriously dull film and outside of the impressive coming together of its parts/merging a franchise business it really wasn't that fun to watch.
Of course fans will find things to quibble about, just as there are things to quibble about in the Marvel movies (like that black dude from Thor). But in spite of these quibblings, I think above all that noise we'll hear loud and clear whether or not the film is a success.Magog1 said:
And as for the goody-goody thing, the same thing was said about Captain America, and I think they pulled it off pretty well. It's definitely a tricky balance, but it can be done. If they could sell Captain America to the jaded, war-weary, post 9/11 masses, I think they can sell Superman too. It's all a matter of execution.
Looking at the reviews it looks like it's going to be pretty damn divisive. Like Watchmen-type divisive.
I agree wholeheartedly here; making Lex a savvy businessman wielding the 'new' kind of power was not only an incredibly smart move, it was one that seems oddly knowing, considering the power that large corporations have in our society and the kinds of crimes we understand they can get away with. Putting that kind of power up against the raw physical power of Superman makes for a more interesting problem.Vilealbaniandwarf said:
Also: to anyone complaining about Superman's 'all powerful' nature I would say a couple things:
1) Good writing generally solves this problem.
2) I have found out that the Hulk can 'adapt' his body so that he can survive in space. That is some lazy bullshit, right there.
You do realise Superman isn't even in the Top 5 of the most powerful Justice League member.Ukomba said:
He's not even in the top 100, or even 1000 most powerful DC character.