The Big Picture: The Devil You Know - Part I

[hermes]

Never really understood why the devil is such a pop cultural icon, he?s not a particularly interesting villain and his worship was used as a excuse to burn people alive.

Depending on your perspective, he is an underdog (after all, its nemesis is God almighty itself) and the original rebel figure. Both characteristics that attract empathy from young people from all ages, especially in times were religion is kind-of not a big deal...

It is pretty common for Christians to take something the locals worship and turn it into cannon to parallel with their own religion and ease evangelism in pagan territories, but it is also a practice of the locals, to show their allegiance to their new creed.

 

[Realitycrash]

I knew most of this already (especially the early parts about where Satan got his modern appearance from and where people got the idea of a Fire and Brimstone Hell from), still, very interesting.

Now, as an obligatory addition: Name your favorite incarnation of the Devil in pop-culture!

Mine is, and shall forever be, Lucifer from the eponymous DC Vertigo-series. Why? Because he is more based on a "I don't give a fuck about you or your souls I care only about me"-version of Lucifer from Paradise Lost instead of the (frankly boring) "Yarrr I AM EVUL AND I DO EVUL STUFF!".

 

[hermes]

Ah, Paradise Lost, Divina Commedia... Now that brings back memories.

Though I don't really get how Divina Commedia is supposed to have influenced the image of Satan. I mean, yeah, Paradise Lost, it's basically Lucifer's story, but Inferno is more about the nature of Hell than the devil himself - he's barely even in it!

He said Inferno is the canon version of Hell, not Satan. It is truth: Inferno barely has Satan in it, and he is pretty contrary to the popular idea of the character.

 

[Gorrath]

Yes, it is interesting how the idea how the christian Bible merely mentions a figure and places that have been translated as hell. I think the most interesting pop culture use was Neil Gaiman's Sandman. The "Devil" is actually made of three figures, Lucifer, Beezelebub, and Azael, seemingly drawing from the different figures mentioned in religious writings. And hell wasn't necessarily a place created for punishment, but perhaps a necessary creation by people for people believing they need punishment for their guilt.

Hell was created for the fallen angels and became the place where souls separated from God by sin went. In this incarnation, Hell serves as the ultimate stick in contrast to the ultimate carrot of eternal life. As far as what Hell is like, that differs depending on how you interpret the Bible. The idea of a fiery place of eternal torture is more an amalgamation of several different ideas from different parts of the Bible and contrasts heavily with the idea of simple separation from God. In short, there is no unified idea of Hell even within the Bible and so I think it is hard to pin down a single interpretation of what the place is supposedly like or what purpose it serves.

 

[Gregory Wollf]

Thank you Movie Bob for that informative and respectful video. As a student of Christian theology I am glad to see you treat the Scriptures so well. You put some serious research and work into this one. It is very unfortunate that so many who call ourselves Christians are woefully uneducated in our own Scriptures, history, and theology.

 

[Diegolomac]

Oh boy, I am hoping with all my strength that next week Bob will mention Arthur C. Clarke's "Childhood's End" at some point...

 

[Evonisia]

Quite an interesting and informative video if I do say so myself. Though the most interesting thing about Satan to me is that he's not actually the 'bad guy', he's just massively exaggerated to be one.

 

[JenSeven]

Bob, not sure on your sources on the Witchhunts and persecution.
Terry Jones gave a much better and more logical explanation in his Medieval Lives: The Damsel.


The important bit comes in at about 19 minutes into the video.
The rest is also interesting, but that's where the point is.

 

[Yozozo]

Glad Bob mentioned Dante's Inferno. It's the larger foundation on what western "Hell" is percieved as, despite very little in the way of scripture support. Just like how Satan's image has been largely twisted by time, so has the concept of hell/purgatory.

God, angels, spiritual beings etc are all described as looking remarkably just like normal human beings. I imagine Satan probably looks the same. No epic goat horned, bat winged, red monster, but just a normal looking fellow. If anything, a bit dissapointing compared to the myth.

That said, Robot Devil from Futurama is best depiction of the devil in any medium, I will give the usually cut devil in the claymation Mark Twain movie a very close 2nd though.

Thank you Movie Bob for that informative and respectful video. As a student of Christian theology I am glad to see you treat the Scriptures so well. You put some serious research and work into this one. It is very unfortunate that so many who call ourselves Christians are woefully uneducated in our own Scriptures, history, and theology.

Sadly, I've found most that swear by it don't even understand how the various books and writings that make up the Bible were compiled, let alone educate themselves on the finer nuances of it

 

[Lonewolfm16]

Notably,the Devil's angel origin is referenced as "Helel/Heylel" which is a Canaanite word for the Morning Star. In Latin, the Morning Star is called Lucifer, Light Bringer in English. Something that is really just a random Canaanite deity, like Baal or Beelzebub were.

 

[Lonewolfm16]

Double post, sorry.

 

[RaikuFA]

Bob, the 6-boobed snake-legged Satan from Megaten better appear next week.

I think he's more along the Paradise Lost Satan.

 

[Gorrath]

Glad Bob mentioned Dante's Inferno. It's the larger foundation on what western "Hell" is percieved as, despite very little in the way of scripture support. Just like how Satan's image has been largely twisted by time, so has the concept of hell/purgatory.

God, angels, spiritual beings etc are all described as looking remarkably just like normal human beings. I imagine Satan probably looks the same. No epic goat horned, bat winged, red monster, but just a normal looking fellow. If anything, a bit dissapointing compared to the myth.

That said, Robot Devil from Futurama is best depiction of the devil in any medium, I will give the usually cut devil in the claymation Mark Twain movie a very close 2nd though.

Thank you Movie Bob for that informative and respectful video. As a student of Christian theology I am glad to see you treat the Scriptures so well. You put some serious research and work into this one. It is very unfortunate that so many who call ourselves Christians are woefully uneducated in our own Scriptures, history, and theology.

Sadly, I've found most that swear by it don't even understand how the various books and writings that make up the Bible were compiled, let alone educate themselves on the finer nuances of it

I think this trend has a lot to do with us becoming more culturally Christian than religiously so. While a great many claim to be a member of certain faiths, this seems to point more to general belief than actual participation in religious practice. It has become more and more difficult to get people to even come to Church, let alone do any in-depth research on the matter.

 

[Slash2x]

There are some VERY specific verses to the appearance of Satan in the Bible as he is the "covering cherub" and the most beautiful of all the angels, his pride in appearance being one of the leading things in his fall. So the whole red horns and goat evil looking thing was created in the WRONG direction and is contrary to the very description provided..... you kind of missed a main point there sir... What you were saying about the description of Satan being adopted as part of the pagan and other religious merger literally reversed the appearance of the devil.

Ezekiel 28:6-19

 

[Mr. Q]

This was a surprising episode this week. Great to see a brief history of the origins of the devil itself. Can't wait to see what part two will bring us. =)

EDIT: I damn near forgot about this. When Bob puts up an image of that one pudgy guy dressed in a devil costume, this video came to mind (foul language, NSFW).

Spoiler

 

[Lightknight]

Zorostrianism. Or, more specifically, Zurvanite Zoroastrianism is sometimes attributed for influencing the adversarial relationship between the Christian God and the Devil. There are other Zoroastrian influences that are sometimes pointed to in the book of Isaiah as well. They shared a regional proximity during occupation and exodus from Israel so the influence of Zoroastrianism in Jewish and Christian faiths and vice versa is considered evident. Then Islam's account is also heavily impacted by all of the above (Islam is a relatively new faith, having been introduced in 622 c.e.).

Basically, in Zurvanite Zoroastrianism, there is a good aspect God and an evil aspect God. In the end time, the good aspect God will triumph over the evil aspect God and their equivalent of Hell gets let into Heaven and all decay stops.

Fun stuff. Interesting video but the subject is far larger than Europe. But yeah, as far as the Christian faith it is largely extrabiblical.

 

[Bbleds]

Yes, it is interesting how the idea how the christian Bible merely mentions a figure and places that have been translated as hell. I think the most interesting pop culture use was Neil Gaiman's Sandman. The "Devil" is actually made of three figures, Lucifer, Beezelebub, and Azael, seemingly drawing from the different figures mentioned in religious writings. And hell wasn't necessarily a place created for punishment, but perhaps a necessary creation by people for people believing they need punishment for their guilt.

Hell was created for the fallen angels and became the place where souls separated from God by sin went. In this incarnation, Hell serves as the ultimate stick in contrast to the ultimate carrot of eternal life. As far as what Hell is like, that differs depending on how you interpret the Bible. The idea of a fiery place of eternal torture is more an amalgamation of several different ideas from different parts of the Bible and contrasts heavily with the idea of simple separation from God. In short, there is no unified idea of Hell even within the Bible and so I think it is hard to pin down a single interpretation of what the place is supposedly like or what purpose it serves.

Couldn't agree more. To clarify just in case there was any confusion, which after rereading my post may be the case, I was speculating on the "hell" of Neil Gaiman's work. Of course an oversimplified interpretation of his writing and hell, but for me it seems encourage readers to think of the reasons why society developed this idea. No good singular answer for that either, but a good idea to chew on. Thanks for the discussion by the way, I enjoy it.

 

[Darth_Payn]

Excellent video, Bob! I like these kind, where it's not tied to a movie, explaining something from one of your movie reviews, or about politics. Just a random thought on anything, and you chose a real doozy of a topic! And you chose some cool images, like that one from Doctor Who's "The Satan Pit" and Elizabeth Hurley (please use that one again next week). Also, for those of you clamoring for a Zoroastrianism reference, maybe he'll throw one in next week's episode.

The thing with Christianity is that to them turning something upside down made it evil, the Wiccan star = Pentagram.

Not really. There's not really any demonic associations with the pentagram before Eliphas Levi devised one in the mid-19th century. This is also around the time Wicca and other New Age belief systems are first formulated. The upside-down thing is mostly a pop-culture fabrication: Catholicism doesn't really have any negative associations with the upside-down crucifix, there's one on the front door to St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, because by Catholic tradition that's how Peter was crucified [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Peter#Death].

And his last words were: "I'm more metal than you, Satanists!" At least that's what I learned from Cracked.

captcha: gothic church
How strangely appropriate. Their services must be awesome.

 

[Gorrath]

Deleted due to double post. The author has been sacked.