NaramSuen said:
Therumancer said:
Ok Therumancer, I'm not going to debate about your use of the term "barbarians" to refer to these cultures, but i want to correct you on something: I reccomend you watch a documentuary called Ancient Aliens Debunked. It's made by a christian, and he does say that something may have occured in the ancient past, and that there are certain consistent themes in anchient mythology that require some good explination. What he does is point out how alot of their "verifiable" evidence is actually either misinterprited versions of existing places or traditions (Puma Punku, Nazca Lines), mistranslated texts (Sumerians and the gold-collecting Anunnaki), and in some cases completley fabricated out of thin air (The Crystal Skulls).
Here's the documentuary in its full 3-hour form: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9w-i5oZqaQ
And there's the thing split up into three parts:
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN7T8WzpZi8
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5TlNnN4bDQ
Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWpKsJLXBR4
I've actually seen parts of that before, and in return I'd suggest you re-read my posts as I myself mentioned a lot of this.
It's like this, if one of these guys decides to head to some ancient temple site, and points to a bunch of niches in the walls full of human skulls for example, the bottom line is there are niches full of human skulls, right there, showing the ancient people in that area killed a whole heck of a lot of people and made ornaments out of their head filling. Whether this done to appease some alien masquerading as a deity, or the specifics of the religion, the bottom line is the people in this area whacked a bunch of people and used parts of their bodies for religious purposes.
At the end of the day, your more or less correct, that the whole alien angle is at best theoretical, and it can be questioned. Of course at the same time I don't take freelance "debunkers" seriously in most cases when they are dealing with stuff verified by a major network and it's people. To put it into comparison when someone decided to do a show claiming there were experts researching the existence of mermen and undersea civilizations, with most of it (including the very existence of "experts" who were actors), there was an immediate backlash far beyond anything Ancient Aliens (which remains on the air) has gotten, largely because AA's basic history is fine, and they actually do have people visit the sites and such, enough people agree with them to make a fight out of it if they really wanted to. None of this really matters of course within the context of this discussion.
However, "Ancient Aliens" was just one source I mentioned, I simply used it as an example of a kind of show, of which channels like "History" run a lot, that is to say shows where they actually visit ancient temples, burial sites, and show off "interesting" remnants of vanished civilizations, using their violent and deranged behavior to shock and entertain while teaching about what happened in some of these parts of the world.
Finally I'll say that for me this isn't really a "Christians are better than ancient pagans" argument. I am a Christian, but not a deeply spiritual one. Truthfully if you've been paying attention here, and to my posts in the past, I've basically already said that like with most things the bigger bastards win. At the end of the day The Christians were better organized, more advanced, and more brutal than the people they were in competition with, which is why they won. Just like how I'll frequently point out that during "World War II" us "heroic allies" beat Hitler not because of our morality and the righteousness of our cause, but because we were simply bigger bastards. Take all the evil stuff you hear about Hitler on the battlefield, increase it by about 50% and that was how bad we were. It's just that as the winners we get to right the history books, so our maniacs are "heroes" and theirs are "war criminals". When you compare what guys like Sir Arthur "Bomber" Harris did to the Axis (Germany in particular) to say The Blitz, it kind of shows, the difference is that we view The Blitz with horror, but gloss over "Bomber" and his antics because we won, either way it was the mass bombing of civilian populations and infrastructure to break a people. Hitler couldn't push it to the point of winning, we did. Points like this I bring up periodically in various discussions to explain why I am such a brutal bastard in advocating mass murder as a way of resolving long standing conflicts and it's nessecity in winning wars. In the context of this discussion it's not "Christians were good, pagans were bad" it's more a matter of both sides were utter, murderous, bastards, and the bigger bastards won (which is pretty much world history in a nutshell sadly enough). My point is that pagans were not innocent, peaceful, victims... NOT that the Christians of the time were great guys, and didn't do worse. What's more it's quite possible that had they won the pagan peoples defeated by Christianity would have gone through a renaissance themselves and become considerably nicer, and more civilized, and turned out along the lines of modern new age movements, that said this is not the course history took. On one side you had church-lead purges and inquisitions and the like, and on the other you had those practicing murderous barbarian faiths. It's like a hypothetical boxing match between Charles Manson and The BTK killer, there is no good guy.