The Big Picture: Tropes vs. MovieBob

MattValtezzy95

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Oct 1, 2011
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I'm just saiyan that if Bob dedicates an episode to DBZ, I will have a full on hardcore nerdgasm since I know he's a fan of the franchise since he's made other DBZ references in the past. But I think he put the saiyans in there since they could also appear to be sexual self image fantasies for male viewers/readers like me. (But in that case, DBZ doesn't really have many over exploited female characters besides Bulma in early DB but by DBZ she has a kid)
 

hanzkidz

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Sep 3, 2011
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Mikeyfell said:
There's going to be a Big Boob Panty Ninja 12?
Did you find the secrete door at E3?

My problem with the whole argument is that overhauling the media and portraying all women with "regular" body types wouldn't fix anything.
The real problem here doesn't have anything to do with the media or uber sexy fake women. The problem is the biological imperative that guys think with their dicks. If there were no D-cup hourglass women in comic books, videogames, movies, etc the underlining problem wouldn't be any less prevalent.

Attacking all the hot bodied characters isn't really attacking the source, or even a symptom of the problem. It's just an easy target
Oh thank God I finally found someone who makes sense!!! I thought I would have to spend hours searchhing.
 

hanzkidz

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Femnist frequency: Hey do you know that games are sexist!!!

Me: yes we know it's a problem, now tell us something we don't know.

Group A: OUR SAVIOUR HAS COME!!! A TIME OF SALVATION IS COMING!!! ALL HAIL THIS VIDEO!!!

Group B: WHAT THIS IS F*&*ING RETARTED, THERE IS NO WAY THAT THIS WILL SOLVE ANYTHING AND IS JUST PLAIN STUPID

Me: Guys could you shut up your making me a bit upset

Journalist: SEE THE GUYS AT GROUP B ARE EVIL, SEXIST, MYSONGINISTIC BUNCH OF ENTITLED BRATS, WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE THIS POOR GIRLS ALONE AND GO BACK TO 4CHAN!!!

Me: Ok you win the argument, now can we please stop this and fix this problem already?

Group B: HAH SEE THAT!!! YOU GUYS SUCK AND YOUR ALL TO IMMATURE TO ACCEPT THAT THE MEDIUM CAN BE CRITICISED AND THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY AT ALL

Me: Ok now would you please shut up so we can figure out how to adress this issue!

Group A: NU UH WERE RIGHT BECAUSE OF THE FOLOWING REASON...

Me: Guys, all this caps are hurting my eyes.
 

Darkmantle

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Oct 30, 2011
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my_ledge_ends said:
Quote="Darkmantle" post="6.379179.14911376"]

But, once again, The Patriarchy Hurts Everyone.
you know, this is probably one of my main problem with feminist arguments.

so lets try something, please, define patriarchy for me, because it seems to me that what I think it means, and what you think it means, are totally different. And we are not going to get anywhere by talking passed each other on it.


EDIT: Yeah this section wasn't really relevant, just some things I was thinking about, I'd rather focus on the main point.
 

Darkmantle

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Oct 30, 2011
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my_ledge_ends said:
. General domestic violence, yes. Domestic violence between intimate partners - women are by far worse off.
Okay give me a break on this will you? I'd say about half don't even mention male vs female rates, so are not relevant to this particular topic, and almost all of the rest state they are even, here, examples.


Men and women engage in overall comparable levels of abuse and control, such as diminishing the partner?s self-esteem, isolation and jealousy, using children and economic abuse; however, men engage in higher levels of sexual coercion and can more easily intimidate physically.
(Coker, A, Davis, K., Arias, I., Desai, S., Sanderson, M., Brandt, H., & Smith, P. (2002). Physical and mental health effects of intimate partner violence for men and women. American Journal of Preventative Medicine, 23 (4), 260-268.
Hammock, G., & O?Hearn, R. (2002). Psychological aggression in dating relationships: Predictive models for male and females. Violence and Victims, 17, 525-540.)

calls it basically even, men a bit more physical. I agree

Between 600,000 and 6 million women are victims of domestic violence each year, and between 100,000 and 6 million men, depending on the type of survey used to obtain the data.
(Rennison, C. (2003, Feb). Intimate partner violence. Us. Dpt. of Justice/Office of Justice Programs. NXJ 197838.
Straus, M. & Gelles, R. (1990). Physical violence in American families. New Brunswick, N.J.: Transaction Publishers.
Tjaden, P., & Thoennes, N. (2000). Extent, nature, and consequences of intimate partner violence. National Institute of Justice, NCJ 181867.)

numbers basically the same again.

Average annual rates of intimate partner victimization between 1994 and 2004 are approximately the same for non-Hispanic and Hispanic females and males.
(Bureau of Justice Statistics, Intimate Partner Violence in the U.S. 1993-2004, 2006.)

calls them the same again.

the only study that backs up your point that I can see from a casual scan is the very first one. No doubt that was put on top on purpose too. You can't cherry pick the one study that agrees with you.
 

Ramzal

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Jun 24, 2011
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hanzkidz said:
Femnist frequency: Hey do you know that games are sexist!!!

Me: yes we know it's a problem, now tell us something we don't know.

Group A: OUR SAVIOUR HAS COME!!! A TIME OF SALVATION IS COMING!!! ALL HAIL THIS VIDEO!!!

Group B: WHAT THIS IS F*&*ING RETARTED, THERE IS NO WAY THAT THIS WILL SOLVE ANYTHING AND IS JUST PLAIN STUPID

Me: Guys could you shut up your making me a bit upset

Journalist: SEE THE GUYS AT GROUP B ARE EVIL, SEXIST, MYSONGINISTIC BUNCH OF ENTITLED BRATS, WHY DON'T YOU LEAVE THIS POOR GIRLS ALONE AND GO BACK TO 4CHAN!!!

Me: Ok you win the argument, now can we please stop this and fix this problem already?

Group B: HAH SEE THAT!!! YOU GUYS SUCK AND YOUR ALL TO IMMATURE TO ACCEPT THAT THE MEDIUM CAN BE CRITICISED AND THAT YOU DON'T WANT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY AT ALL

Me: Ok now would you please shut up so we can figure out how to adress this issue!

Group A: NU UH WERE RIGHT BECAUSE OF THE FOLOWING REASON...

Me: Guys, all this caps are hurting my eyes.
You do know that there aren't just two groups with the same opinions, right? There's hardly an issue to address. It's a subject that's inflated for no reason. Your "Group A" are trying to do something right but losing sight of the fact that not all women are objectified. Or even that they themselves have objectified women at times. Be it if you'd call a woman a whore, a skank, a slut but think one is only good for their body. And truth be told, there isn't a straight or bisexual person on this planet that hasn't seen a great figure and undressed them with their eyes.

Same goes for women who do the same to mean. And as for your "Group B" it's a matter of realizing that it still does happen. Granted, not as much as Group A claims but it still does happen at times. However often it hard to prove. Seeing as how your could-have-been boss will NOT outright say "You know what? Your breasts aren't big enough. Next!" Sometimes people fill in that gap of "You treat me this way because I'm a woman/man/black/Eskimo!" But not everyone does.

Honestly the solution to this minimal issue is simply seeing people as people. Sure women are women and men are men, but we are one people. You may want to chill a bit with the troll posts.
 

Crazy-Insomniac

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Oct 17, 2010
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I have to say, bob, your lecture videos are definitely improving. There's many good points coming across and less of a vibe of you being judgmental. The thing I've noticed most in feminist arguments is the more judgement the person conveys, the more defensive the person becomes. This appears to be the case with the Tropes vs. Women videos. I think people are more compelled to agree if the viewer, male viewer, doesn't feel like he's labeled the bad guy by default. The benefit of the doubt, so to speak.

Obviously, it doesn't guarantee the there won't be dicks on the internet, but it can reduce the intensity of the backlash. Hell, it could increase the number of male listeners in feminist issues. Isn't a good goal to have? This can apply to any topic, not just feminism.
 

Ashoten

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Aug 29, 2010
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Well I am happy to see that being a liberal hipster doesn't stop you form ignorant moralizing Bob. Keep it up you.
 

Katya Topolkaraeva

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Dec 9, 2010
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1. She pisses people off because her videos are basically her ranting about her agenda and picking and choosing only things that will prove her point... and not even picking that well, i may add. She also frankly does not have a good tv presence in the charisma department and comes off as seriously annoying (as in i wanna smack her in the face real bad, woman to woman)

2. Women are often (but by no means always) represented as extremes, BUT SO ARE MEN. I hate this argument that "well it's ok that the men are because it's for the men blah blah." NOPE that does not change the fact that men are also very much presented in a skewed way.

And finally... 3. Women LIKE playing sexy video game female characters just as much as men like playing hunky male video game characters and for the same reason. Women don't want to play some average looking down to earth girl. Video games are a fantasy land where people (women and men) want to be something they really are not. And woman who complain about this probably are not playing too many video games. I am a woman and i always rush forward to play the games with the sexy women as main characters faster then any guy out there. If you don't believe me that this is the case then consider this. How are women portrayed in media designed for women? (ie, women's magazines, romance novels, celebrities women look up to) Yup, all those are generally sexy attractive women who most of us couldn't measure up to. There's your proof. If feminists want to bash the female image they should first look at the media GEARED towards women! If they got anyone to ***** at it's women for wanting that shit.... oh no.. but they won't do that will they? cuz women are delicate and blameless and soooo prosecuted and need defending. And that right there just proves their hypocrisy. They make women out to be more fucking defenseless and in need of help then any men do.

And one final thought. know what MEN do when a game isn't to their liking? THEY MAKE A MOD FOR IT. So... Feminists, how about you quit bitching at men and learn to program and make mods of down to earth non sexualized women for some games. WHAT? DID THAT NOT OCCUR TO YOU?
 

floppylobster

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Oct 22, 2008
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I lost out on a really good job because a less qualified, but more attractive, woman was given it over me (confirmed by a friend who works at the company). Are video games to blame?

Also, Lucca, Misty, Azel, Jade, Alyx, Zoey, Orta, Lammy, Alis, etc...
 

planet.tyler

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Mar 1, 2012
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I'm only going to say it once so listen up Bob; getting on board the feminist band wagon will not, I repeat will NOT get you laid. Please. Stop. Now. Unrealistic body images are not going to get sorted out on the internet, what you are doing here is turning up to an earthquake with a dust pan and shovel.
 

roostuf

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Dec 29, 2009
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nice one bob, as usual i cant find any arguments with that video.

and i personally think that BBPN8 was the highlight of the entire serious.
 

Terramax

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If women really want to see a greater variety of depictions, shouldn't they be writing to magazines like, say, Cosmopolitan, requesting they invest in video games specifically targeted at women? Or contacting women in other forms of media (television, books, and of course, video games) to do more to represent themselves?

I feel damning men for playing games targeted at men, giving what men want, is rather pointless and counter productive.

It's also further bizarre that women somehow feel threatened by visually perfect women like Lara Croft or whoever, when at the same time go out of their way to spend as much time and money on products to make their faces seem as perfect as possible, going to the gym or going on diets, because magazines and books for women, written BY women, tell them too.

However, one point I really disagree with anyone on is that men are apparently not sexualised as much, or in the same way. This may be true in the case of the game industry, but in the media as a whole, I may even argue men are sexualised more.

All I ever hear at work from my predominantly female team are that they watch tv shows, buy magazines, listening to musicians, etc, because a fit, shirtless man is involved somehow. And this tends to be the case in bars I've been to, and my predominantly female family also.

Ironically, on jobs I've been to with male colleagues, or my male friends, I've very, VERY rarely spoken about the kind of women we're attracted to, and often when we do, it's more about their character than their visual appearance.

Call me shallow, weak, intimidated, or having little in a way of self-esteem, but I often I feel I can't compete with the expectations of most women out there. And yet, here I am, on a forum catered for my tastes, telling me I'm a bad person because I play Dead or Alive. Am I really the minority here. I'm I really a bad person for not allowing it to be acceptable for women to self indulge in their physically perfect man, but I'm not allowed to do the same for women?