The Big Picture: Words for Nerds

[mrblakemiller]

I know it's been said already, but I feel compelled to reiterate in agreement:

I know you get paid to do it, Bob, but it's uninteresting to have you tell us what we should be doing on the Internet. We're talking too much about Batman? What's the worst that could happen? We get tired of it and stop? Let people have their fun. You didn't even give a reason why we shouldn't promulgate our favorite consoles. And you know what I do when I find a message board post that's too long? I skip it.

Tired of everyone who pretends they have any authority to tell others what to do or that "nerddom" is an important group that we should steward well.

 

[Susan Arendt]

No. No it's not.

"In good fun" is the bully excuse. This is exactly what Bob is talking about.

I think you're misinterpreting his post. It's less "it's fun for me so I should do whatever I want" and more "none of it is serious, quit being butthurt". Honestly, he's right there. The vast majority of cases of racism, homophobia, elitism, etc that I've seen on the internet have been lacking any real bite or meaning behind it. Most of my "internet friends" throw around slurs with reckless abandon, yet not a single one is actually racist, sexist or whatever else. None of it is meant to be taken seriously or to be offensive.

And if you sling it around amongst your friends - who know both you and your intent - that's one thing. I can call my girlfriends "hooker" or "whore" all day long, because they know that I love them and don't mean anything by it. But it's unreasonable to expect internet "strangers" to assume that you don't mean anything by it when you start throwing such language around.

That's the core issue, as I see it. Some people seem to put the entire burden on the listener (or reader, as the case may be), and aren't willing to understand or accept their own share of the responsibility when it comes to communication. Until I know you better, I have no choice but to take your words at face value.

As a general rule of thumb.

If it's on the net don't take it seriously.

If we're talking about meme's here this is more than true, it's the whole premise.

I've never understood how people get so upset about things they read on the net. Most of the time it's either sarcastic or ironic. Or it's written out so terribly it's just generally lul's worthy.

The vast majority of my day-to-day communication takes place online, via forums, IM, email, Twitter, etc. You're suggesting I not take any of it seriously? That's simply not realistic. The rules of common decency don't stop simply because you've taken a conversation online.

All of that said, it's also up to the reader to not go looking for a fight. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I disagree, I'm clearly not talking about work related communications. But casual conversation is fair game as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not specifically referring to work-related communications, either. I realize that I'm a bit of an unusual situation, given that my job is to be visible online, so I have to be more mindful of how I speak to people than the average forum visitor. But still, I think it's important to take responsibility for how you present yourself to the strangers you encounter online every single day.

 

[Clonekiller]

People love to be victims. There is a certain moral superiority to it, and people love to latch on to being a victim. Take a look at the Occupy people. Sure, they have good points, but it's kinda hard to look at a lot of them an not think "hypocritical bully". I mean, it's kinda hard to listen to someone talk about how poor and oppressed they are, when they have an iPhone, straight teeth, and $900 dollar sun glasses. Similarly, it's hard to listen to how thoughtful and kind they are while reports of "scandals" flow out of their camps.

 

[Susan Arendt]

No. No it's not.

"In good fun" is the bully excuse. This is exactly what Bob is talking about.

I think you're misinterpreting his post. It's less "it's fun for me so I should do whatever I want" and more "none of it is serious, quit being butthurt". Honestly, he's right there. The vast majority of cases of racism, homophobia, elitism, etc that I've seen on the internet have been lacking any real bite or meaning behind it. Most of my "internet friends" throw around slurs with reckless abandon, yet not a single one is actually racist, sexist or whatever else. None of it is meant to be taken seriously or to be offensive.

And if you sling it around amongst your friends - who know both you and your intent - that's one thing. I can call my girlfriends "hooker" or "whore" all day long, because they know that I love them and don't mean anything by it. But it's unreasonable to expect internet "strangers" to assume that you don't mean anything by it when you start throwing such language around.

That's the core issue, as I see it. Some people seem to put the entire burden on the listener (or reader, as the case may be), and aren't willing to understand or accept their own share of the responsibility when it comes to communication. Until I know you better, I have no choice but to take your words at face value.

As a general rule of thumb.

If it's on the net don't take it seriously.

If we're talking about meme's here this is more than true, it's the whole premise.

I've never understood how people get so upset about things they read on the net. Most of the time it's either sarcastic or ironic. Or it's written out so terribly it's just generally lul's worthy.

The vast majority of my day-to-day communication takes place online, via forums, IM, email, Twitter, etc. You're suggesting I not take any of it seriously? That's simply not realistic. The rules of common decency don't stop simply because you've taken a conversation online.

All of that said, it's also up to the reader to not go looking for a fight. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I disagree, I'm clearly not talking about work related communications. But casual conversation is fair game as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not specifically referring to work-related communications, either. I realize that I'm a bit of an unusual situation, given that my job is to be visible online, so I have to be more mindful of how I speak to people than the average forum visitor. But still, I think it's important to take responsibility for how you present yourself to the strangers you encounter online every single day.

I dunno, I've always admired the more blunt and to the point posts personally.

And I really do wish there was a better way to convey sarcasm in text form. I don't know how many times I've had to explain sarcasm before. But it kind of dulls the point when you have to write /sarcasm or something like that.

Indeed, it can be very difficult to get sarcasm across. It can also, sadly, be really difficult to get a genuinely positive message across - I've had many, many situations where I complimented someone (something along the lines of "that was really good") and they assumed I was being sarcastic. The trouble with text-based communication. I always wanted a sarcasm font. Thought it would save a lot of trouble.

 

[ProtoChimp]

I... did bully someone once in real life and didn't realise it. It was only for like a day and I genuinely thought I was just joking, but then I made a girl cry. Shameful I know. I think I got past that about 3 years ago though, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't play the victim card sometimes. It's wrong and I need to stop it.

 

[Dastardly]

That's the core issue, as I see it. Some people seem to put the entire burden on the listener (or reader, as the case may be), and aren't willing to understand or accept their own share of the responsibility when it comes to communication. Until I know you better, I have no choice but to take your words at face value.

And isn't that what makes a bully? When one person enforces their world view, values, and beliefs on others? We're just not doing it by physical force, but rather simply assuming they share (or should share) our views and treating them like asses if they don't...

Whether geeks or jocks, everyone just wants to rule their own world. The problem comes when we also expect to have subjects.

 

[xFullmetalx]

I think your looking at the Console wars of yesteryear through rosy shades.

 

[dkyros]

Fun Fact for Nerds. Apparently the most common delusion for schizophrenics are those of persecution. Also, schizophrenics don't tend to adjust well into 'the normal society'. I'm some random guy on the internet, and that's the big picture.

 

[mandaforever]

snip

I'm sorry to interfere, but isn't the UK traditionally the place with the largest gap between social classes? I mean after all, it's one of the pillars of British comedy.

I think you took that the wrong way, I don't mean the social divide as in this.

Spoiler: class division

I meant this

Spoiler: highscool cliques

I don't see why either, but it is. Not that we don't have awesome people here (I know so many amazing folks), but so many people are just not. I think it's different between women and men, too. As a woman, most other women cannot relate to me at all because things like video games and comic books aren't even on their radar (its not that it doesn't interest them, it's just that they'd never in a million years try it). It's not that I don't get along with everyone, it's just that few can relate. I think it may be more because of my gender than where I live, which is absolutely stupid and should not be true, but is, at least for me. I need to move over to England at some point, or at least to a city here in America, where society seems to have evolved a little more, that or just stick with my group of friends. :/

Hmm, odd. I would agree that it's more of a gender thing, but honestly. A lot of my female friends game. And they're still close friends with their female friends who don't.

They must not be surrounded by lame people like me. I have quite a few female friends who don't game who Im very close with. They also don't suck XD

 

[Furioso]

I hate to say it, but you're doing it wrong.

I get that this is kind of your job right now. But you need to stop taking the internet culture so seriously. It's not meant to be taken seriously. Everything here is in good fun. Even if it can appear mean spirited to certain groups of people.

Isn't that the exact excuse the facebook bullies use when their victims commit suicide?

 

[jack583]

bob
i wish to know your viewpoint on homestuck
seriously

 

[Jopoho]

I would say that some of the nerd bullied/bully complex does not exist solely on the internet (though I agree that common decency should not vanish amidst the zeroes and ones).

I went to a comic book store during one of their friday night Magic play sessions, both to observe and perhaps participate (not being a serious competitor I wasn't going to force myself into a game). I think its fair to say that I and the people in the store were all nerds even, but apparently I wasn't the right kind of nerd. They gave me one of the coldest responses any group of people ever has. Apart from the store employee, no one would speak to me directly and if I spoke to one of them, they would give quick little quips that tended to be dripping with sarcasm and general disapproval.

Shortly before leaving, I heard one of them mention that the store was a great haven for them, and yet they were not willing to extend that "haven" to anyone else.

I know not everyone claiming to be a nerd is like that, but its very off-putting to see.

 

[jack583]

bob
i wish to know your viewpoint on homestuck
seriously

HOMESTUCK, YOU SAY?

OT: Don't entirely agree with everything Bob said, but it was an entertaining episode nonetheless. Now, I'm off to do those "productive" things he mentioned.

you got a problem with it?

 

[Agayek]

Isn't that the exact excuse the facebook bullies use when their victims commit suicide?

There's a difference between throwing jokes, parodies and other silliness around and outright attacking someone. One is a crude, yet lighthearted, approach, while the other is an aggressive act. There is a clear difference between the two, which is made blatantly clear pretty quickly. The former is always fair game, while the latter should be stopped as much as possible.

That said, I see the people committing suicide over bullying (in any form, but especially cyber-bullying) as utterly ridiculous. Having been through the bullying rigamarole, I can say it's not nearly as hard to deal with as they make it out to be. It takes work and some degree of maturity, but it's more than possible.

My view is probably a bit skewed due to my stance on suicide though (specifically, it's the ultimate act of cowardice and surrender), so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Furioso]

Isn't that the exact excuse the facebook bullies use when their victims commit suicide?

There's a difference between throwing jokes, parodies and other silliness around and outright attacking someone. One is a crude, yet lighthearted, approach, while the other is an aggressive act. There is a clear difference between the two, which is made blatantly clear pretty quickly. The former is always fair game, while the latter should be stopped as much as possible.

That said, I see the people committing suicide over bullying (in any form, but especially cyber-bullying) as utterly ridiculous. Having been through the bullying rigamarole, I can say it's not nearly as hard to deal with as they make it out to be. It takes work and some degree of maturity, but it's more than possible.

My view is probably a bit skewed due to my stance on suicide though (specifically, it's the ultimate act of cowardice and surrender), so take it with a grain of salt.

No, I don't think you can say it isn't as hard as they make it out to be, there are degrees of bullying, you were not bullied bad enough to make you want to commit suicide, therefore you are not the authority on whether or not bullying is a valid excuse to commit suicide

 

[sergnb]

"Of course ponies are exempt from this"

I'll just leave this here

Offically Bob sanctioned poines? My oh my!

I don't think that's a good thing.

Yes, that was a condescendent phrase, not a supportive one.

Stop with that shit. Now.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Well Bob, you touched upon "meme culture", and made me think a bit.

I find that most net dwellers who wield memes use them because:
1) The popularity of a meme carries with it some measure of inclusion. You know the quote, you fit in.
2) Most of the time, they don't know how to be genuinely funny or witty on their own, but a meme is both an acceptable substitute, and it's a simple copypasta job away.

Imagine if every comedian in the world used the SAME JOKES as each other and nothing else.
It'd be a cold night at the mic in many clubs across the country.

This doesn't mean a meme CAN'T be funny. Timing is a big part of comedy.
However, spamming your favorite lolcats, un-motivational poster, My Little Pony, AYB etc picture in the barest of context isn't comedy.

I hate to say it, but you're doing it wrong.

I get that this is kind of your job right now. But you need to stop taking the internet culture so seriously. It's not meant to be taken seriously. Everything here is in good fun. Even if it can appear mean spirited to certain groups of people.

Isn't that the exact excuse the facebook bullies use when their victims commit suicide?

The typical counter to that is "Well, it's THEIR FAULT for taking it so seriously.", and while that is true, it's only half the truth.
If something is truly done "in good fun", the perpetrator would STOP DOING IT when the recipient asks them to stop.

Decent people know when to quit; bullies don't know when (or don't want) to stop.

 

[Agayek]

No, I don't think you can say it isn't as hard as they make it out to be, there are degrees of bullying, you were not bullied bad enough to make you want to commit suicide, therefore you are not the authority on whether or not bullying is a valid excuse to commit suicide

That's true enough, but I can state with some degree of experience, if not authority, that it is the victim who defines how the bullying affects them. As long as it's not physical, the victim has all of the power in the relationship.

If you are insulted, there's one of two possible conclusions to the statement:
1) It is incorrect.
2) It is correct.

If #1, then you can safely ignore it. It's a blatant falsehood, and thus anyone who says it or believes it isn't worth the time to listen to.

If #2, you have to then analyze the statement. If you find the statement to be a non-issue, then you can safely ignore it. If you do find the statement to be an issue, then you know you have to do something about it, in which case you should be grateful to the idiot for pointing it out.

None of this involves throwing a hissy fit and eating 9mm of lead. Someone doesn't like you. Too fucking bad. You're never going to get along with everyone. Let them keep their opinions, practically nothing you can do will change their minds. Let them do their thing and continue on your day.

The problem with this approach is that it takes a certain degree of self-confidence and maturity, and unfortunately not a whole lot of people being bullied have either, so they don't tend to reach such a conclusion on their own. I'm just trying to impart whatever wisdom I've managed to gather on the matter.

Now, I'd also like to point out that all of this applies to purely non-physical bullying. When it crosses that line, just about everything changes. It becomes less a matter of conflicting opinions and more a matter of torture and cruelty.

Edit: For clarity's sake, all bullying should be stopped whenever it's found. What I'm trying to get at is that reacting negatively to verbal bullying accomplishes nothing and is utterly meaningless. No more.

 

[ProjectTrinity]

This conversation is weird for me. All of it! I was blessed with my mommy's face, the attitude of an elitist, and have a far greater acceptance rate of my peers offline than I do online. (Please don't ask how...) So I've been around *all* kinds of groups, pressures, differences and similarities while growing up. You can say my High School life was like being a jack of all - master of none. Never really got the bullying treatment, but have done my fair share to those I personally didn't like. But totally had valid and oftentimes exclusive reasons. ; _;

Everything he said except about Batman has weight to it when it comes to the bigger issues. The deviations I saw on this thread in order for some to stand on soapboxes are borderline unbelievable. If you don't try to add garbage or misinterpret, the message is pretty black and white: Some people do exactly what Bob wants to see less of, and the lasting victim mentality is quite pathetic. The whole thing about generalizations, "get used to it", and any other...sophisticated argument is like forming an argument about a non-issue. Internet Problem 101.

*Goes back to composing music*

 

[Grunt_Man11]

Look at all the people getting defensive and upset at Bob here.

Gives some validity to what Bob was saying in the the video if you ask me.

The truth hurts. It hurts a lot.