Recently, the subject of grinding in RPGs has come to my attention; that many modern RPGs seem to be trying their best to excise grinding entirely, and I think that this is certainly a topic that deserves discussion.
Grinding, like all game elements, can be done very well or very badly. If done badly, as in, for example, early Phantasy Star games, it can come off as just repeating the same action over and over with very little payoff in exchange for doing so. On the other hand, it can be done well, as in Kingdom Hearts, allowing the player some freedom of motion during the grind, or as in Shining Force; with the gameplay during the grind involving real strategy, which must be carefully-considered. "The Elder Scrolls" manages both of these on some level, combined with allowing you to grind individual skills, which can be improved in a training-like way, and in my view, "Quest For Glory"; one of my top 5 favorite game series of all time, did it even better.
However, some ask, why grind at all? What do we get, except the same kinds of actions over and over, which don't advance the plot or involve much gameplay difference?
I think a good case can be made for grinding, on the basis of two things that it allows a game to do, which no other gameplay element allows for.
1. Simulated training.
Bruce Lee once said that he feared not the man who'd practiced 10,000 kicks once, but rather, the man who'd practiced one kick 10,000 times. Well, the same is true when training oneself in anything. Any skill, in order to be mastered, must be practiced over and over, and if one does so, one distinctly improves in it. Imitating this factor of skill or character improvement in a natural way (rather than, for example, buying new skills at the local shop, a-la Spider-man 2,) is going to involve repetition, to simulate the repetition that would be involved in *actually* training that skill. That's what everybody means by "grind."
Video games, remember, are a form of art, and if art is going to imitate life, we've got to let it have the freedom to not be immediately and instantly entertaining for every single second of the game, but that said...
2. Satisfaction of payoff for work.
In real life, one often does tedious work for hours at a time, only to find that, in the end, there's no really satisfying payoff. The virtues of persistence, and even exceptional talent, are often rewarded with a mere lack of being fired, or at best, a 1 dollar raise, that works out to be less than you were being paid before, somehow.
Video games, however, have the chance to offer something better. They can reward persistence and hard work with an incredible payoff, and a great sense of accomplishment. Indeed, this long-term satisfaction is even deeper and more rewarding once obtained, because it was something you were looking forward to, and when it happened, you were pleased that you accomplished it.
Many people fail to appreciate this second factor, including some folks on certain youtube videos, just because it's not the same as instant gratification, but I've played games that are thrill-a-minute games (Prince of Persia; the Sands of Time, for instance,) and while they do offer a kind of fun, that fun is over when it's over. Accomplishing a long grind gives one a feeling that one has just overcome a great obstacle, and in better cases, that feeling can last well beyond the moment when you put down the controller/mouse.
In fact, I consider it a great tragedy that modern video games do grinding so infrequently. Not long ago, a game was announced, which claimed to be an RPG in the style of Quest For Glory, and one of the first things they announced was "no grinding." It made me want to bang my head against a wall, since grinding was such a central and well-executed part of QFG. Robbing gamers of the freedom to grind is not a positive trait of a video game.
The training process is just as valid a gameplay element as any other, and should be treated respectfully, and yes; improved upon. I'm just about at the point of saying that if a game doesn't have some form of grinding, I'm not interested in it anymore. This is why I've considered every Elder Scrolls title since Morrowind to be a step down. There just aren't as many skills to improve in as there once were (yes, Daggerfall had more than Morrowind, but Morrowind streamlined the grinding process in many ways, making it more enjoyable overall.)
So, yes, I like grinding *a lot* when it's done well, and like any gameplay element, if it's done poorly, I probably won't enjoy it as much, but I'd rather live with it than without it.
What are your thoughts on this? Is there a place for gamers like me, who want to grind, and grind well? What, if anything, can be done to revive this often-neglected gameplay element?
Grinding, like all game elements, can be done very well or very badly. If done badly, as in, for example, early Phantasy Star games, it can come off as just repeating the same action over and over with very little payoff in exchange for doing so. On the other hand, it can be done well, as in Kingdom Hearts, allowing the player some freedom of motion during the grind, or as in Shining Force; with the gameplay during the grind involving real strategy, which must be carefully-considered. "The Elder Scrolls" manages both of these on some level, combined with allowing you to grind individual skills, which can be improved in a training-like way, and in my view, "Quest For Glory"; one of my top 5 favorite game series of all time, did it even better.
However, some ask, why grind at all? What do we get, except the same kinds of actions over and over, which don't advance the plot or involve much gameplay difference?
I think a good case can be made for grinding, on the basis of two things that it allows a game to do, which no other gameplay element allows for.
1. Simulated training.
Bruce Lee once said that he feared not the man who'd practiced 10,000 kicks once, but rather, the man who'd practiced one kick 10,000 times. Well, the same is true when training oneself in anything. Any skill, in order to be mastered, must be practiced over and over, and if one does so, one distinctly improves in it. Imitating this factor of skill or character improvement in a natural way (rather than, for example, buying new skills at the local shop, a-la Spider-man 2,) is going to involve repetition, to simulate the repetition that would be involved in *actually* training that skill. That's what everybody means by "grind."
Video games, remember, are a form of art, and if art is going to imitate life, we've got to let it have the freedom to not be immediately and instantly entertaining for every single second of the game, but that said...
2. Satisfaction of payoff for work.
In real life, one often does tedious work for hours at a time, only to find that, in the end, there's no really satisfying payoff. The virtues of persistence, and even exceptional talent, are often rewarded with a mere lack of being fired, or at best, a 1 dollar raise, that works out to be less than you were being paid before, somehow.
Video games, however, have the chance to offer something better. They can reward persistence and hard work with an incredible payoff, and a great sense of accomplishment. Indeed, this long-term satisfaction is even deeper and more rewarding once obtained, because it was something you were looking forward to, and when it happened, you were pleased that you accomplished it.
Many people fail to appreciate this second factor, including some folks on certain youtube videos, just because it's not the same as instant gratification, but I've played games that are thrill-a-minute games (Prince of Persia; the Sands of Time, for instance,) and while they do offer a kind of fun, that fun is over when it's over. Accomplishing a long grind gives one a feeling that one has just overcome a great obstacle, and in better cases, that feeling can last well beyond the moment when you put down the controller/mouse.
In fact, I consider it a great tragedy that modern video games do grinding so infrequently. Not long ago, a game was announced, which claimed to be an RPG in the style of Quest For Glory, and one of the first things they announced was "no grinding." It made me want to bang my head against a wall, since grinding was such a central and well-executed part of QFG. Robbing gamers of the freedom to grind is not a positive trait of a video game.
The training process is just as valid a gameplay element as any other, and should be treated respectfully, and yes; improved upon. I'm just about at the point of saying that if a game doesn't have some form of grinding, I'm not interested in it anymore. This is why I've considered every Elder Scrolls title since Morrowind to be a step down. There just aren't as many skills to improve in as there once were (yes, Daggerfall had more than Morrowind, but Morrowind streamlined the grinding process in many ways, making it more enjoyable overall.)
So, yes, I like grinding *a lot* when it's done well, and like any gameplay element, if it's done poorly, I probably won't enjoy it as much, but I'd rather live with it than without it.
What are your thoughts on this? Is there a place for gamers like me, who want to grind, and grind well? What, if anything, can be done to revive this often-neglected gameplay element?