The Creator of DOOM/Quake announced a new FPS, Blackroom

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

Compared to FPS? Ahahahah, no. Solid third-person shooters are far rarer because it's a lot harder to do than simply placing a gun in the hand of a disembodied arm, which has been done to death. Third-person view is in many ways more functional.

3D games are harder to do than 2D games, doesn't mean that Ride to Hell: Retribution is better or more original than Rayman Origins.

A third-person view works for some games and doesn't work for others. Personally I think Dead Space would have been a lot better as an FPS as having a separate avatar in the game world kinda distanced me from the experience.

That's a fairly bizarre position to take on Dead Space, seeing as a large chunk of the game would have to be cut to make an FPS version to work. Enemy behavior and level design would have had to have been completely changed, zero-g completely cut, a HUD added, and we'd lose Isaac's glorious, panicked stomping action. By the time you're done, I can't even see anything of Dead Space surviving, besides maybe the atmosphere.

Dead Space wasn't a good game.

Oh boy.

 

[B-Cell_v1legacy]

Spoiler

Compared to FPS? Ahahahah, no. Solid third-person shooters are far rarer because it's a lot harder to do than simply placing a gun in the hand of a disembodied arm, which has been done to death. Third-person view is in many ways more functional.

3D games are harder to do than 2D games, doesn't mean that Ride to Hell: Retribution is better or more original than Rayman Origins.

A third-person view works for some games and doesn't work for others. Personally I think Dead Space would have been a lot better as an FPS as having a separate avatar in the game world kinda distanced me from the experience.

That's a fairly bizarre position to take on Dead Space, seeing as a large chunk of the game would have to be cut to make an FPS version to work. Enemy behavior and level design would have had to have been completely changed, zero-g completely cut, a HUD added, and we'd lose Isaac's glorious, panicked stomping action. By the time you're done, I can't even see anything of Dead Space surviving, besides maybe the atmosphere.

Dead Space wasn't a good game.

Oh boy.

He is right. Dead space was not very good. it become very boring. its not even scary at all.

 

[Ambient_Malice]

He's going to make us his *****? You mean he's going to release another game that absolutely no one liked? Seriously, even if you're a fan of him, why are you referring to daikatana when you're trying to show him in a positive light?

Its just a one bad game. romero is one of the greatest mind in gaming industry as he created level design of Doom and Quake. Plus its PC exclusive FPS not a console shooter.

I for one very pumped for this game. sadly 2018 is far away

DOOM and Quake are the result of Romero being firmly informed by Carmack that his ideas were crap and they should use his instead. Romero's original pitches for DOOM and Quake are nothing like what we got.

Doom is the result of the real brains behind Doom, Tom Hall, getting kicked out of iD Software during development. Author of the Doom Bible, Hall wanted heavy story content, multiple playable characters, and a bunch of other things. Some of these ideas ended up manifesting in Rise of the Triad. Hall later went on to make the very good Anachronox, with the assistance of John Romero.

 

[Dizchu]

That's a fairly bizarre position to take on Dead Space, seeing as a large chunk of the game would have to be cut to make an FPS version to work. Enemy behavior and level design would have had to have been completely changed, zero-g completely cut, a HUD added, and we'd lose Isaac's glorious, panicked stomping action. By the time you're done, I can't even see anything of Dead Space surviving, besides maybe the atmosphere.

Ehh, just because a lot of work went into it and a there was a lot of innovation doesn't mean it was the best decision. Filming the Hobbit in 48 frames per second was a massive undertaking but I'd argue that it was a better experience in 24 fps.

That's why I'm kinda torn. I love a lot of the things in Dead Space that involved the third-person view but ultimately, as a whole experience I would have much preferred it if it were in a first-person view. It just works better for horror in my opinion.

Dead Space wasn't a good game. First-person view wouldn't have helped. I agree that some games are better in first-person. A second part of my statement would have said, "less functional in some." But there are almost no first-person games that I still want to play because it's been done to death for decades. Black-Cell's idea that third-person is more played out is laughable.

Dead Space was a great game it just doesn't hold a candle to System Shock 2, the game it took so much inspiration from.

Whether a game is in first-person or third-person doesn't make it worse or better, more derivative or original by default. It helps some sorts of games and detracts from others. Personally I've never been able to get into third-person horror games as they feel like watching an interactive horror movie more than they feel like playing a game.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

That's a fairly bizarre position to take on Dead Space, seeing as a large chunk of the game would have to be cut to make an FPS version to work. Enemy behavior and level design would have had to have been completely changed, zero-g completely cut, a HUD added, and we'd lose Isaac's glorious, panicked stomping action. By the time you're done, I can't even see anything of Dead Space surviving, besides maybe the atmosphere.

Ehh, just because a lot of work went into it and a there was a lot of innovation doesn't mean it was the best decision. Filming the Hobbit in 48 frames per second was a massive undertaking but I'd argue that it was a better experience in 24 fps.

That's why I'm kinda torn. I love a lot of the things in Dead Space that involved the third-person view but ultimately, as a whole experience I would have much preferred it if it were in a first-person view. It just works better for horror in my opinion.

I guess thats the difference - I didn't go into Dead Space to be horrified, just to experience a horror atmosphere game. Honestly, the only game I think ever really 'scared' me was Amnesia, and that's not really because of the perspective (Though 3rd person probably wouldn't have worked), but because you're absolutely helpless against the things that live in the game with you. To me, once you've got a laser gun and a boot that would make the devil piss himself, you've excited scarytown.

 

[SweetShark]

Well, just to update the thread - Blackroom now has $97,481 out of $700,000, after a little over a day.

For reference...

Battletech, a turn based strategy game based on a niche board game, made $709,000 dollars on its first day ($250,000 of that in the first 53 minutes).

Kingdom Come: Deliverance, a medieval open world game made by Warhorse Studios, roughly $270,000 on its first day.

Shenmue 3, $818,000 on its first day.

Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night, a project by Koji Igarashi, of Castlevania fame (I'm waiting with glee on this one), $998,000 first day.

Torment: Tides of Numenera, $1,488,000, first day.

I guess being the father of Doom doesn't get you cash like it used to.

To be fair, these games get kickstarted fast cause of the premise and nostalgia.
I think it would be a lot different if J. Romero wanted to create a spiritual successor of Quake, the first Quake mind you. If this was the case, I will admit I would backed on a heart beat.

John Romero....just create a FPS which you shoot Cthulhu Terrors and call it "AfterShock".
Please?

 

[Dizchu]

First-person can be pretty limiting, though. There should be a lot more third-person shooters, and not the sluggish near the shoulder ones we've been getting for a decade. The only reason they're not as big as first-person shooters is because it's harder to do.

No that's not the reason why there are fewer of them. If that were the case we'd have a lot fewer Crash Bandicoots and a lot more Mirror's Edges. Platformers are a clear example of how a third-person perspective can be easier to do than a first-person one.

Third-person views have their own limitations. Camera movement in third-person games has always been an awkward thing to deal with, up until the popularisation of twin analog sticks at least. It also reduces the amount of detail that can be visible in the environment, which is a double-edged sword. On one hand it means you don't need to have textures that are as detailed and you'll likely be able to render much larger environments, on the other hand it means that any details that need to be conveyed to the player will be harder to show because the camera is further away from the action.

Saying that the first-person view is overdone is like saying the minor keys are overused in music. It makes no sense.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

Well, just to update the thread - Blackroom now has $97,481 out of $700,000, after a little over a day.

For reference...

Battletech, a turn based strategy game based on a niche board game, made $709,000 dollars on its first day ($250,000 of that in the first 53 minutes).

Kingdom Come: Deliverance, a medieval open world game made by Warhorse Studios, roughly $270,000 on its first day.

Shenmue 3, $818,000 on its first day.

Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night, a project by Koji Igarashi, of Castlevania fame (I'm waiting with glee on this one), $998,000 first day.

Torment: Tides of Numenera, $1,488,000, first day.

I guess being the father of Doom doesn't get you cash like it used to.

To be fair, these games get kickstarted fast cause of the premise and nostalgia.
I think it would be a lot different if J. Romero wanted to create a spiritual successor of Quake, the first Quake mind you. If this was the case, I will admit I would backed on a heart beat.

John Romero....just create a FPS which you shoot Cthulhu Terrors and call it "AfterShock".
Please?

While true, that's pretty much the premise of this Kickstarter as well. Only instead of selling nostalgia for a specific concept, he's selling nostalgia for himself, and the nebulous concept of 'Old School.' Apparently a bad move.

Another financial update:

Blackroom has made 121,000 dollars in it's first 3 days (Plus 3,000 today). A quick check shows that it's metrics, percentage/day wise, line up almost exactly with Battletech's numbers. If it keeps that up, it will fall short of it's $700,000 by a pretty sad margin. And I wonder if it will even be able to keep up with that - Bonus goals are often lambasted as being bullshit, but they work, and Blackroom doesn't have them to keep the money flowing.

Also, I just want to correct something I said/asked earlier - This game will not be made for $700,000. The kickstarter is a proof of interest run that they'll leverage to get additional funds from larger investors, who they've already lined up.

 

[SweetShark]

Yeah, the horror just felt flat. Especially those cheap shock value deaths and suicides. Dead Space was tedious more than anything.

For me it was tedius cause I needed to fix the problems the controls had with the PC Versiosn. A lot of work.
But after the fix the game was superb. I only played the first game and I will admit some times it scared the sh*t out of me.
A major complain I have is one of the Boss fights in Zero Gravity. This Boss fight was a total bullsh*t.

 

[SweetShark]

That's a fairly bizarre position to take on Dead Space, seeing as a large chunk of the game would have to be cut to make an FPS version to work. Enemy behavior and level design would have had to have been completely changed, zero-g completely cut, a HUD added, and we'd lose Isaac's glorious, panicked stomping action. By the time you're done, I can't even see anything of Dead Space surviving, besides maybe the atmosphere.

Ehh, just because a lot of work went into it and a there was a lot of innovation doesn't mean it was the best decision. Filming the Hobbit in 48 frames per second was a massive undertaking but I'd argue that it was a better experience in 24 fps.

That's why I'm kinda torn. I love a lot of the things in Dead Space that involved the third-person view but ultimately, as a whole experience I would have much preferred it if it were in a first-person view. It just works better for horror in my opinion.

Dead Space wasn't a good game. First-person view wouldn't have helped. I agree that some games are better in first-person. A second part of my statement would have said, "less functional in some." But there are almost no first-person games that I still want to play because it's been done to death for decades. Black-Cell's idea that third-person is more played out is laughable.

Dead Space was a great game it just doesn't hold a candle to System Shock 2, the game it took so much inspiration from.

Whether a game is in first-person or third-person doesn't make it worse or better, more derivative or original by default. It helps some sorts of games and detracts from others. Personally I've never been able to get into third-person horror games as they feel like watching an interactive horror movie more than they feel like playing a game.

Oh Boy.
For my part, I think Dead Space is Superior of System Shock 2.
I had a lot of problems with its interface and the constantly spawing of the enemies.
Not a bad game mind you, just ok for me. 6/10.

 

[Dizchu]

I find it boring. I've played countless games like that. Your music analogy doesn't work. Minor keys are as essential as... I don't know, polygons.

I used the music analogy because minor keys work in certain situations and in other situations, major keys are more suitable. Yet neither are inherently "better" than the other.

Saying you're tired of the first-person perspective is absolutely like saying you're tired of the minor scale, because it's not the minor scale itself that you're tired of but the way it is being implemented. If you spice minor keys up with a harmonic or melodic minor scale then you'll have something that feels more unique than your typical Aeolian mode.

Sorry for going into a music theory tangent but I really do think that's a good comparison. If you're getting tired of first-person games maybe the problem is with the games and not with the camera position.

 

[K12]

Are these the same creators of Doom and Quake who made Rage or is this a different group of people who have seemingly done nothing that they feel proud of for 20 years?

 

[DefunctTheory]

Are these the same creators of Doom and Quake who made Rage or is this a different group of people who have seemingly done nothing that they feel proud of for 20 years?

John Romero is the guy who worked at Id Software when Doom was made, but left before Rage was made, and has done very little to be proud of since roughly that time.

Other then that... The Kickstarter is dead! Whee! And why?

They weren't going to get 700k, that's why. They were on track to get around 350-400K, if they were lucky.

And here's why that matters.

A game like this couldn't be made for only $700,000. We mentioned in the video that we've also been talking to partners who want to see a proven interest in game. If the Kickstarter funds they'll provide the additional funding we need to complete the game.

The kickstarter really wasn't for raising funds, it was a proof of interest for real investors. And if they had let the kickstarter finish, it would have shown those investors that really, there was no interest, at least not from anyone ready to pony up the cash upfront. They would have been finished forever.

So they canceled it. They're probably going back to the drawing board, and making a pitch that doesn't feel like it was made by a bunch of 7th graders for a Public Speaking Class. Maybe actually design a game to show us. Then they'll be back to try and prove people care again.

I am mildly interested in what their given reason was (It's in a Backer Only Update on Kickstarter), but I'm sure its a bunch of crap anyway.

I feel like a dick for finding this funny.

I don't feel like a dick, but I find this hilarious. This is exactly how a kickstarter as shabby as the one Romero made should end, and it's gratifying he didn't get away with pulling this crap just because of his name.

EDIT:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/29/11536736/john-romero-blackroom-game-kickstarter-gameplay-demo

And there it is. Romero pretty much saying in the nicest way possible that they fucked up.

We're not in a massive rush to hurry up, get all the money, and start making the game ? we want to do it right. So we'll stop the fundraising for now, finish the demo we're working on, and then do it again. If they don't like that, then we don't make that game ? but we think they will like it.

Not rushed my ass. If there wasn't a rush, this Kickstarter wouldn't have been started in the first place.