The Deal with MMORPG's

[Tassit]

There's a couple MMO's I played for their story, WoW for example was originally about lore and story but.. It's since gravitated towards the loot pinata aspect, sadly. Guild Wars I played to max level on a couple races, their personal storylines were fairly decent. I played every class story in SWTOR (which let me tell you what, when you grind through the rackghoul quests for the 3rd time it makes you want to drop kick your computer). Also and more recently, Final Fantasy 14's storyline (albeit slightly wonky) is fairly decent, the old man training montage you do as the Pugilist made me laugh.

I see a couple mentions about Secret World, never tried it but if the story is good I just might.

 

[raichu845]

I feel like there are way more valid complaints to be made about MMORPGs than having to repeatedly attack stuff. Like the constant buff/nerf cycles that make it so that the character you love can be ungodly powerful one day and absolute garbage the next. Like the constant balance changes made for PVE and PVP that aren't exclusive, forcing PvP players to deal with changes that didn't have any impact on them (and the same for PvE players in the opposite situation). Like constantly being nickel-and-dimed by either monthly subscription fees or ridiculous micro-transactions. Like the constant issues they have with various internet service providers and college IT departments that restrict you from being able to play (which you won't get a refund for if playing a subscription-based game). Like the constant threat of hackers and identity theft if you're not constantly vigilant with security. Like the need for a fairly high-end PC to be able to smoothly run many MMORPGS, even if they came out years ago using tech even older than that.

The genre is a mess, but constant clicking of an attack button is definitely nothing unique to it.[/quote]

These are all valid points, however most of them tend to apply for a lot of games, especially MOBA games. I notice this while watching League of Legends players (especially during their discussions). What you just described there is mostly every genre. Now I am not bashing on you because they're still pretty viable points on MMORPG's yet at the same time not exclusive to them

 

[Torque2100]

I have never really liked MMOs. I played WoW for a while but I only got to level 45 or so because I just didn't enjoy it. The only reason I played was because all of my friends got hooked on WoW and I had to play it in order to spend any time with them. I guess feeling like a game is holding my friends hostage colored my perception of the genre.

For me, the worst part about the MMORPG experience is the WoW feel. How every dungeon is instanced, areas are clearly delineated based on level, the boss you just killed respawns 10 minutes later and there's no real risk to anything you do. If you get killed, no problem you can just respawn at your corpse or back in the graveyard in a perfectly safe city. Playing WoW or any MMORPG that fits into the WoW mold (read, basically all of them) doesn't feel like I'm going on an epic fantasy adventure, it feels like a Theme Park. The dungeons and bosses are just rides and the Loot drops are like giant dubious prizes handed out by whiskey-smelling carnies which are, of course, obsolete the moment you get them.

Honestly, of all the games I have tried the only MMOs that really seemed to break the mold of the Theme Park mentality are EVE Online, oldschool Ultima Online before Trammel ruined everything and Planetside. Oldschool Ultima, from what I have read about it, was pretty much perfect. It was a wide open world where you could go anywhere and do just about anything. Yes there were griefers and enemies could loot your dead body, but items weren't nearly as hard to get as they are in WoW model games. What you lost could be replaced fairly easily.

I liked EVE for a lot of the same reasons. Unfortunately, when I played it the game had been ruined by skyrocketing inflation in the in-game economy. The ISK was basically worthless and buying the most basic items cost billions of ISK. This was due to the double whammy of moving everyone onto the same server and ISK Farmers. I hear CCP have gotten better about cracking down on ISK farming but I really don't see how they can solve the Inflation problem now, so it will just make the game unwinnable unless you have an established friend who can gift you a couple of billion ISK.

Planetside was fun because of the huge battles and the way it truly encouraged teamwork. Unfortunately, Planetside 2 was ruined by a freaking DELUGE of hackers, the complete inability of the Devs to do anything about said hackers and a truly obnoxious Microtransaction pricing scheme (Want a new gun? 30 BUCKS!).

I guess a recurring theme for me is that MMOs are consistently ruined by the playerbase. Either directly by hacking or cheating or exploiting the game to farm more than their intended share of in game currency, thus causing inflation, or by the Developers attempting to preempt such actions and taking away freedom from the rest of us.

 

[nogitsune]

I tend to role play in MMOs as I always find the creation and interaction of characters more interesting then the game itself. City of Heroes, the game that got me into MMOs and still stands as the best one I've played, had fantastic story as well as millions of character options (and never truly penalised a 'bad build') and encouraged multiple characters. I ended up with about 57 characters when the game was shut down, about 15 of which were at the max level of 50 (though I only had 1 character who had all the end game 'Incarnate' powers and levels as grinding for them more then once doesn't appeal) and I would have happily kept playing it if it had stayed.

For those of you who never played, City of Heroes (and Villains) did its best to break the usual skinner box mold, and was a role playing dream come true with character customization and even mission/enemy customization. The game had a lot of fantastic ideas, like level scaling both up and down, robust character creation/customization, custom missions players could make, instancing, power based 'gear' and just generally being all around *fun* to play. But the notable thing that was great about this game? It was about the players, through and through. To this day, COH had some of the largest degree of player agency and chacter ownership I've ever seen in an MMO, outside of some of the notable sandbox ones like EVE. Compare that to your typical themepark ride MMO where you are just yet another Tauran Shaman that looks the same as the other ones. Yes, I'm spoiled rotten by COH's character creator, sue me.

Ugh I miss that game so much now. Was shut down suddenly, and for no good reason or explaination ever given. Even keeping it on life support with Ned the Janitor looking after the server cluster and some customer service staff would have been better than totally killing it off the way NC Soft did. I guess no good deed goes unpunished, as the expression goes. It was very much the MMO equivalent of the end of Cheers, everyone left then the lights turn out. Here's hoping that City of Titans becomes a thing.

I definitely agree with you there and really CoH is probably my favorite sandbox MMO. I really wish more people would hold it up as one instead of Eve and UO all the time. A sandbox MMO doesn't have to have the wild west PVP where anyone can kill you and take your stuff. There's more to the sandbox than throwing sand in the other kid's face and running off with his toys. I'm not saying that there's no place for Eve like games, there clearly is by it's popularity but I there should be room for PVE sandboxes too and really it's sad that we lost the last great one, Star Wars Galaxies was the other that
I know of and no one can play that either..

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I definitely agree with you there and really CoH is probably my favorite sandbox MMO. I really wish more people would hold it up as one instead of Eve and UO all the time. A sandbox MMO doesn't have to have the wild west PVP where anyone can kill you and take your stuff. There's more to the sandbox than throwing sand in the other kid's face and running off with his toys. I'm not saying that there's no place for Eve like games, there clearly is by it's popularity but I there should be room for PVE sandboxes too and really it's sad that we lost the last great one, Star Wars Galaxies was the other that I know of and no one can play that either..

City of Heroes was not a sandbox MMO. It was a content light theme park. It was fun to play and oozed personality, but that doesn't change what it was. EVE, SWG and UO constantly get name checked as *the* sandbox MMOs because they're really about it (at least amongst AAA offerings). Ultima Online is still arguably the most ambitious MMO ever made. Sure, all of its systems were fundamentally broken and/or under-designed, but they sure reached for the stars on that one. Then Everquest hit big and WoW aped its formula, made it more accessible, and became a genre smashing phenomenon. And ever since then it's been theme parks, theme parks and more theme parks, all the way out to the horizon.

 

[mezorin]

COH is definately not quite a sandbox in the true sense of the word (Like Libertarian Quest Online, aka EVE) but at the same time how many theme parks would let you create your own missions, customize your characters super heavily, and play the game how you felt like playing it? COH was 'technically' a theme park MMO, but with an emphasis on player ownership, freedom, and creativity. It was also one of the first MMOs I am aware of to allow for creation of your own story arcs/missions in an online MMORPG setting. Its a crying shame it went down the way it did too, I would rather see MMOs try and emulate the player agency COH did than try to be yet another WOW clone. Even Cryptic themselves (the original makers of COH then splintered off) are just trying to do the copy pasta generic fantasy route these days with Neverwinter Online.

 

[Flutterguy]

I like my competitive games to have fairly high learning curves and 'reward' my playing. So MMOs are perfect. Haven't played any in about a year now though, always eats up too much time and I can spend years with guildies or friends only for them to disappear one day.

I am looking forward to Elder Scrolls Online though. It will be the second time I buy a game at launch day, last time was Crash Team Racing on psx.

 

[raichu845]

I like my competitive games to have fairly high learning curves and 'reward' my playing. So MMOs are perfect. Haven't played any in about a year now though, always eats up too much time and I can spend years with guildies or friends only for them to disappear one day.

I am looking forward to Elder Scrolls Online though. It will be the second time I buy a game at launch day, last time was Crash Team Racing on psx.

First of all I want to say, good buy on the CTR (favorite racing game I have ever played). Second of all I am not trying to disprove you by any way, I agree with you on rewarding you but I am curious on the high learning curves. The reason I ask about it is because aren't MMOs designed so that the grind to max level covers the learning of the character? Or maybe you are talking about certain raid/dungeon bosses and ways around them?

 

[Flutterguy]

snip

I am curious on the high learning curves. The reason I ask about it is because aren't MMOs designed so that the grind to max level covers the learning of the character? Or maybe you are talking about certain raid/dungeon bosses and ways around them?

Well world of Warcraft for example. Each class has 30+ abilities with different possible builds and strategies. If you want to do well in PvP or lead successful raids then it's best to know all abilities and know of at least basic DPS rotations for all classes. I could just plow through to max level and learn a b&b DPS rotation, but that's just not my style.

 

[jseph1234]

"Ratty:
"Oh brave warrior! Thank heavens you're here! Go kill 12 gerbils and report back to me!"
"Oh brave warrior! Thank heavens you're here! Go kill 8 wolves and report back to me!"
"Oh brave warrior! Thank heavens you're here! Go kill 26 troglodytes and report back to me!"
"Oh brave warrior! Thank heavens you're here..."

Never found the game-play rewarding myself, and I'm the kind of guy who can enjoy spacing out while grinding up levels in an old school jRPG. The difference being when I grind in a single-player RPG it feels like it's building to something. Another part of the story or a boss I can go fight, not just more grinding."

The Primary and Key difference between stupid MMORPG's and TRUE Fantasy RPG

1. In MMO's you just mindlessly level up your character in a world nothing makes a d*mn bit of difference.
2. In TRUE Fantasy RPG (based on the Old School D&D, LOTR models) you are progressing in levels in order to
resolve the conflict that brought you to the world/game in the first place.

I am just SHOCKED how the gaming industry has hood-winked MILLIONS into substituting the true heroic essence
Fantasy Role playing for this MMORPG mess.

I only play games now like; The Witcher, or Never Winter nights 2 or Morrowind because you are actually having
a true impact on the story lines and the world, just like in the books we all grew up reading.

 

[Ikasury]

yea, i realized this logic long ago, its why when i normally hit the 'grind' i stop playing them because it gets boring, especially when i'm by myself... i still play FF14 because for some reason i really like the crafting, its like meditative (currently mining while doing this XD) so i play it after i've done some homework/studied because it requires like no thought at all... its just 'set goal'-'keep doing til achieved'-'yay!' still haven't gotten a 'max' character, i never get that with MMOs, i've never been able to max ONE character, i don't get how people have trains of alts at max... and all the post game bites mostly, just more grind, woo?

but like i said, i play FF14 because i like it for some reason and even then its just a game i don't have to 'think' about...

was looking forward to ESO, but after playing the beta realized its pretty much the same as all other MMOs, only without a crafting i like, so kinda killed any real reason i'd want to buy it... even if its an ES game :/ guess its just back to mining for me~