The Devil and Corvo Attano

[chimmers]

But WHY does that mean violence is NEVER justified? Yes, Granny Rags was a crazy witch, but at the time you didn't know that, plus the Bottle St. gangsters were attacking her ostensibly unprovoked; would it have been more moral to stand by and watch three armed men attack an (again, ostensibly) frail old woman who couldn't defend herself?

I knocked out the three dudes and placed them sleeping soundly on a random balcony or dumpster. Violence is sometimes the answer but so long as you are caring about it it's fine.

Like how my father would beat me with a book then tuck my unconscious body into bed.

 

[Seydaman]

I would go as far as to question whether a pacifistic run of the game is within the average players ability without the aid of magic.

It's pretty easy actually.

I got the "Mostly Flesh and Steel", "Clean Hands" and "Ghost" achievements all in one run. Granted, my second run, but it wasn't overly challenging.
(Complete the game without killing anyone, Finish the game without purchasing any supernatural powers or enhancements, besides Blink, Complete all missions after the prologue, alerting no one or killing no one but key targets

 

[K.ur]

To take an interesting approach, the Outsider is an immortal Joker without a Batman.

And yeah, like most said already. Your temptation was to use the weapons of humans (mostly), while the magic made a non-lethal run easier if not even possible to begin with.

 

[Pyrian]

I would go as far as to question whether a pacifistic run of the game is within the average players ability without the aid of magic.

It's pretty easy actually.

...besides Blink...

Did you do it without using Blink? The achievement allows it, but it's certainly a power granted by the Outsider in terms of this discussion.

 

[Ghored]

It's not entirely difficult to go through Dishonored on a "non-lethal no magic" run, it only makes the game a lot longer and requires you to study the guard patterns a lot more closely than if you did have magic. (Meaning Blink spam everywhere they're not looking)

OT: The Outsider always came across as that impartial spectator to me.
The magic he gives Corvo can be used to go non-lethal just as much as it can go lethal
The weapons were designed by Pierro and other Dunwall scientists
and whether you go good or bad, in the end, The Outsider will have enjoyed himself whether impressed by your restraint or satisfied with your bloodshed.
From a narrative standpoint, I think Corvo could have saved Dunwall any way he wanted to without the aid of the Outsider, even if it took a lot longer.
Really, I didn't think about it far beyond that. Pretty insightful article.

 

[copycatalyst]

As was true with your informing article about the honour system, Mr Rath you have once again increased my enjoyment of Dishonored tenfold. I too found it frustrating game design to be given so many (fun!) tools that I wouldn't be able use when trying for Low Chaos. I hadn't thought of it from the temptation angle before.

 

[loa]

Murdering everything in dishonored is very easy and, after a while, not really satisfying at all due to its repetetive nature while working non-lethal makes it more challenging, varies up the gameplay because you actually have to pay attention to unique enemy constellations instead of just stabbing and shooting everything that moves.
Having more tools doesn't mean having more fun, especially once you realize that most of them are pretty much worthless anyway.

 

[kael013]

An interesting take on the mishandled game design. I don't think this was intended by the devs, but I like it!

As others have said, magic makes nonlethal easier, but only 3 abilities (Blink, Dark Vision, and Possession) and 1 passive (Vitality) had no inherent violent use; the others all do. There were no puzzles that used Windblast, summoning a Devouring Swarm just to Possess a rat to sneak through a vent was too risky (a guard may wander into the swarm and good-bye non-lethal!). The majority of the magic abilities practically scream "Kill someone with me!" as do the mortal weapons. The deck in stacked towards killing, but even a stacked deck has to offer something to keep you playing with it; thus the non-lethal magic abilities.

 

[Daniel Park]

I personally had just as much fun with the nonlethal playthrough as I did the lethal one.

Plus, it got me a sweet trophy.

 

[J Tyran]

The outsider indirectly provided Corvos weapons though too, he gave Piero visions of different inventions which included Corvos mask and his weapons. Otherwise I agree the Outsider isnt exactly evil, its human failing that lead his "gifts" into causing so much chaos.

If you get the best low chaos ending the Outsider even seems slightly more approving, same for if Corvo spares Daud. Those choices and paths are not so obvious and more interesting to him, makes me wonder if the great leviathan thing is true and he is watching and playing with humans for his own entertainment or study.

That last part is what had me spend hours writing my post instead of minutes.
Why is The Outside more approving of you sparing people? Why is he more inclined to praise positive behaviour than negative behaviour?

Then I read this:
"And Daud -- you just killed the greatest assassin of the age. Did you do it for love of the Empress or Emily? Or was it the primal desire to rise above other men? Do you even know why?"

It always comes back to conviction.
We know little about Corvo himself, but we do know things that might paint a clearer picture of him.
Empress Jessamine Kaldwin is a caring leader who's biggest priority is her people. Since she took Corvo as not only her personal bodyguard, but also her lover, it's not farfetched to conclude that he's just as interested in saving people, rather than murdering them. His title is "Lord Protector" after all and I doubt that's a coincidence.

So if Corvo is implied to be an honorable man with a strong interest in protecting people, that's not exactly surprising when he spares Daud or any of the other people he's sent to kill. Except, Corvo is brutally mistreated, suspected of killing the woman he loved and kidnapping his own daughter. The whole world is against him and yet he chooses to stand by his conviction and that's what surprises(and delights) the Outsider.

If Corvo kills Daud, then he's succumbed to petty(albeit understandable) emotions and compromised his very being.
"Do you even know why?"
The question is, does the Outsider know why, meaning he doesn't quite understand the motivation behind killing Daud when it's not part of who Corvo is. While there could be any number of reasons(for one, getting rid of an assassin), succumbing to killing Daud is just a result of petty feelings, which is a dissapointing and forseeable outcome.

I'm absolutely certain that the only thing the Outsider is interested in, is surprise.

-

Regarding Piero...
I think this is in part an oversight of design, that The Outsider supplies designs to Piero to make things or an excuse to give Corvo things that others in the game don't have access to.
I do believe that Piero is more interested in changing the world(rather than benefit himself like Sokolov), which warrants the attention of The Outsider, but the inspiration has no motive other than supplying Corvo with tools, which is somwhat at odds with what else we know about this. Arguably, it could just be to give Corvo more choices in his own fight.

As others have mentioned, the overwhelming deadly arsenal you recieve as well as the satisfaction of killing people is likely an oversight and a fault of the game, rather than an indication of The Outsider wanting you to kill people.

--

Regarding the Leviathans. This is one aspect of the setting I don't understand or frankly haven't bothered to look into. I'm not sure what part they play, if any at all. I can see the obvious signs and the dependancy that their society have on these creatures as well as the implied magic connection between their bones and The Outsider, and Granny Rags calling out to the "Great Leviathan".

Sure, he could be their avatar or aspect and have an interest in why humanity is as it is. Positive actions might indicate that he wants to see the good in humans and have ulterior motives in finding out, possibly to spare them or decide to kill them all off through chaos.
(I haven't played the DLC so I'm certainly missing information.)

Please tell me, what do you think?

Well to get the DLC story without spoiling much all I will say is that the Outsider purposefully sets Daud on a path to stop another party from using void powers in a manner the Outsider obviously disapproves of, sending Daud off shows that and how things end for Daud depends on him. Interestingly when the Outsider asks Corvo "do you even know why?" is tied into Daud and how he handled things after the murder of the Empress, if he did things one way Corvo spares him without realising why if he does it another Corvo kills him which shows how some of Corvos path was predestined by events beyond his control.

The DLC reinforces the idea that the Outsider approves of positive actions, he is obviously disappointed in Daud over the assassination of the Empress as well as he is not so neutral towards Daud and criticises him about it. There isn't that much info about the Leviathan thing though, just a book or two along with some dialogue and the whalebone connection.

 

[EvilRoy]

I would go as far as to question whether a pacifistic run of the game is within the average players ability without the aid of magic.

It's pretty easy actually.

I got the "Mostly Flesh and Steel", "Clean Hands" and "Ghost" achievements all in one run. Granted, my second run, but it wasn't overly challenging.
(Complete the game without killing anyone, Finish the game without purchasing any supernatural powers or enhancements, besides Blink, Complete all missions after the prologue, alerting no one or killing no one but key targets

I'm surprised it was that easy for you, although I suppose I never actually tried it myself. There were a couple missions where I figured I wouldn't even need magic, but inevitably I would get myself in trouble and be forced to activate the rats or blink away at one point or another.

 

[Ray Devlin]

I'm surprised he doesn't go into the third ending. The ending that actually gets the Outsider to emote, as if he FINALY has something good come on the intra-dimensional TV.

 

[God of Path]

You are giving the devs far too much credit.

Magic provides far more options for nonlethal gameplay then weapons do, so the idea of The Outsider tempting you by offering you the power to kill easily is bogus.

There just wasn't much communication between the narrative design folks and the gameplay design folks on this issue. They place so much narrative focus on Corvos lethality while nonlethal gameplay is an afterthought.

And even if i were to accept the argument you put forward, that would mean they deliberately made one path of the game boring, so that the player would be "tempted".

Either way, that's shit game design.

Why is he giving the developers too much credit?

Why is the Outsider tempting you "bogus?"

How do you know there "just wasn't much communication between the narrative design folks and the gameplay design folks?"

Why is it poor game design to attempt to do something like that?

For what it's worth, I thought the piece was an exceedingly thoughtful interpretation of an equally thought evoking game. Thank you, Mr. Rath!

 

[AntiChri5]

You are giving the devs far too much credit.

Magic provides far more options for nonlethal gameplay then weapons do, so the idea of The Outsider tempting you by offering you the power to kill easily is bogus.

There just wasn't much communication between the narrative design folks and the gameplay design folks on this issue. They place so much narrative focus on Corvos lethality while nonlethal gameplay is an afterthought.

And even if i were to accept the argument you put forward, that would mean they deliberately made one path of the game boring, so that the player would be "tempted".

Either way, that's shit game design.

Why is he giving the developers too much credit?

Why is the Outsider tempting you "bogus?"

How do you know there "just wasn't much communication between the narrative design folks and the gameplay design folks?"

Why is it poor game design to attempt to do something like that?

For what it's worth, I thought the piece was an exceedingly thoughtful interpretation of an equally thought evoking game. Thank you, Mr. Rath!

Because of the points i just made which you made no attempt to adress or seemingly even notice?

 

[Gregory Wollf]

The Outsider as a classical Satan is very interesting. Theologically I think Mr. Rath is spot on. The Outsider desires chaos over order and subtly tempts Corvo to become an agent of that chaos. His points concerning Granny Rags, Daud, and Pierro provide enough references to see what following the Outsider will eventually do to a character. I don't know if the game devs purposefully made the Outsider like this, but the connections are undeniable.

Furthermore, the subtle links between the Outside and Leviathan also parallel the Ancient Near East interpretation of the Leviathan in the book of Job; ie a cosmological force of chaos that is simply beyond our understanding.

As for the game saying that the Outsider is neither good nor evil I don't see why that should settle the matter. Lore in video games can just as easily be NPC opinion (incomplete) or just plain untrue (either intentionally so or not).


As for myself, the first time I encountered a serious dilemma via The Outsider was when Granny Rags wanted me to poison the Bottlestreet Boys' elixir still. I figured that the city wouldn't be hurt too badly if the street thugs all died off but when I saw how many families bought elixir from them I was torn between Granny's reward and the consequences of poisoning so many innocent people. I was actually bothered by the decision. The final rune on that level or letting characters I would not meet live. I had to stop and think about this for a while. The moral side of me that was horrified at spreading the plague to innocents verses the gaming side of me that wanted to optimize, and collect all the powerups.

Now the Outsider never specifically mentions that he enjoyed watching you make this choice, but it doesn't take much to assume that he did. And it was more than a passive "I have nothing better to do than watch Corvo fumble around with his new teleport abilities, oh look now he's messing about with some rat plague extract, ho hum..." No, the Outsider is intentional with everything he does and as a tempter and a force of chaos he wants to test Corvo and in a metagame sense, the player, to see what they will do.

It is also very interesting to see how many players defend the Outsider since he never actually gets his hands dirty. Intentional or not, I am of the opinion that the devs created a cunning and devious tempter and I love that they did. Thank you Mr. Rath for bringing this to light.

 

[Lyri]

The Outsider is a cosmic being that picks favorites and tests them. In the case of Corvo he, through Daud, destroys everything he holds dear and puts him in a bad situation

Please, please, please play The Knife of Dunwall and The Brigmore Witches if you have not done so already. I really like your article but I feel like you are missing out on so much of The Outsiders personality.

 

[God of Path]

Because of the points i [sic] just made which you made no attempt to adress [sic] or seemingly even notice?

You provide no evidence or reasoned logic with which to substantiate your claims. That's what I was asking for, specified for each of your points.

 

[AntiChri5]

Except that i did. The author states that the Outsider provides power in order to tempt you. To bait you into killing. My counterpoint is that the outsider provides the best nonlethal tools in the game. Using his gifts makes nonlethal gameplay easier. Therefore he/it is not trying to tempt you into killing. I was pretty clear on that.

He is giving the devs too much credit by misinterpreting a few things in the game in a certain way that seems to accomplish something he delights in and then deciding it is deliberate. I disagree. That he found this in the game is nice, but i don't think the devs were that skilled or intelligent. Im not sure why that needed to be expanded on, as it is a personal judgement.

I don't "know" it, of course. But it's a well founded guess. The gameplay design and narrative design are at odds. Ludonarrative dissonance, to borrow an overused phrase.

It isn't poor game design to attempt to include nonlethal gameplay, or to have ones lethality have an impact on the story. It is poor game design to have a wide variety of fun and interesting lethal tools and abilities, a small pool of uninteresting nonlethal tools, and then have the games narrative disapprove of the character actually taking the fun option. Don't glue a sword to the players hand and then judge them for stabbing people.