The Elder Scrolls Future

[Therumancer]

I see two main possibilities for the second game

1. Hammerfell: It's the only human area that the elder scrolls games hasn't focused on. I'm not saying they won't do an elder scrolls game in the homeland of another species (morrowind disproves that) but it's easier to relate with human characters. It's invasion by the thalmor and the fact it has some dwemmer ruins makes this more likely.I think your character would be a sword singer (or at least would be able to use some of their lesser abilities). Most of the knowledge is lost but I think they stored it in a unique way (I could be wrong there though). Their is also according to usep their god of "perseverance over infidels" which sometimes materialises when it's needed (aka any time now to help kill the thalmor). The desert setting would also be interesting.

2.Elsweyr: It's currently occupied by the thalmor which is a plus, they'll probably rebel sooner or later. There is also a khajit called the mane (again according to usep) that is reborn in different bodies and leads the khajit, seems quite similar to the Dragonborn and Nerevarine.

Actually Hammerfell has it's own game called "Redguard" which was a pirate themed swashbuckling action-RPG type thing they tried to do. It wasn't all that great.

The Dwarves could always return, in fantasy nothing is permanant, if their spirits are tied up in a giant golem or whatever they could always be removed from it as part of some quest (what has been done, can be undone). It's not like similar things have not been done before.

That said the Dwarves were removed from the game in favor of the current Redguard who did not previously exist (ie the Dwarves were the Redguard) in the interest of making the game a lot more politically correct and having an all-black human race in the game. A lot was said about it when the desician was made in a lot of differant directions.

Allegedly the desician happened for design reasons, they wanted to keep their current "world map" so for this "new race" they needed to replace one of the existing ones. The Dwarves got the axe so to speak because they were shorter than the other races and as tech improved the issue of perspective was an issue. Basically a dwarf running around would be like another character sneaking, and then crouching would give an even lower perspective, and that would mean that the entire game would have to be coded to look decent from that perspective.

At least that's what I've heard over the years.

I'm not sure if I'd go for a game set in Elsewhyr because a desert enviroment would have the same problems as the arctic/snowy enviroment of Skyrim except even more pronounced... with a lot of identical, fairly barren scenery. I'm not sure if I'd care for an entire game set in an enviroment like that.

If I had to make a guess I'd like to see a game set in Valenwood or the Summerset Isles.

If I was writing Elder Scrolls, I'd probably do the next game focusing on the Aldermari dominion in their own lands, with the player having to decide if they want to side with or against he Aldermari, as opposed to just out and out fighting them in another land.

If they re-visit Hammerfell, it should be at a time when they actually develop a system for using boats in the game. The current version of the culture is VERY nautical based, and really I don't think they could really capture the right vibe for something like this unless the PC at least had the option to spend a lot of time on boats sailing around (as opposed to just entering them like any other structure in search for blood and loot).

Black Marsh could be interesting, but given that it's largely populated by an aquatic species and I got the impression a lot of the Argonian settlements existed at least partially underwater.... I could see that as a pain in the arse to design, as well as probably having to find a reason for the PCs to all get water breathing fairly early on. Admittedly though it could be fun to get involved in a fight between the Argonians and a resurging Sload empire, fighting through underwater caverns and ruins for portions of the game.

 

[Voulan]

I was playing Skyrim today when I happened across a closed gateway towards the Jerall Mountains in Cyrodiil.

Sorry, I'm on the PS3 and had to take pictures with my phone:

Spoiler

You can't interact with it, and if you somehow manage to get over it there is an invisible wall and the "You cannot go this way" message. The fact that it's even there, however, seems pretty interesting.

Theoretically, this is where your character first enters Skyrim and gets caught. I think that we could probably get DLC where we can go through this gate into Cyrodiil. If they do, this means the Great War would be tied up before the next game.

 

[SajuukKhar]

1st off: I agree with you on leaving choice open for earlier games, but that isn't validation. True validation in this circumstance would mean it literaly put your choice in the next game.

2: MK misses the gigantic plot hole of Lorkhan being dead and having his body ripped into pieces and the other thousand problems with the conflicting lore.

3: But was pelinal insane every second. No. Just because Akatosh has madness doesn't mean he is the god of chaos or insanity. Everything is at least partially mad or insane.
Also:"It is said that Pelinal emerged in to Nirn like a Padomaic, carried by Sithis and all other forces of change. Described by Morihaus as an ada or spirit, Pelinal plays the same role as a long line of avatars sent by Shor to champion the cause of mankind. Pelinal, however, is an exception, as he exhibits significant bonds to Akatosh as well, who is hostile to Shor."

4: Thanks for clearing that up Sithis always confused me because they say hes a hole in reality sometimes.

1. True validation only means they told you what you did happened, which they do in the ES series. You are confusing validation of choice with follow-through of choice.
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2. All the gods are dead, they all died at the creation of the mortal world.
http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Monomyth - "Finally, the magical beings of Mythic Aurbis told the ultimate story -- that of their own death. "

Lorkhan only had his heart removed, his body wasn't torn up.

Also there is no conflict in the lore, both Oblivion AND Skyrim visually show that Akatosh is Lorkhan and vice-versa. I will explain it to you if you desire, but it is quite long.

Furthermore having your heart torn out means nothing abut your ability to do stuff. Just because Akatosh who is Lorkhan is dead and has had his heart removed does not prevent him from being able to appear manifest and fight Dagon and do other things.

-Look at Sithis, he has a giant gaping hole in his chest, and has his heart removed, because Sithis and Lorkhan are the same being, and he still gets around to ruling the Dark Brotherhood and taking souls. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111111090058/elderscrolls/images/3/3e/700889-sithis_super.jpg

-Zurin Arctus also had a hole blown in his chest and has his heart destroyed, by the original underking, and still managed to live for many years as the second underking
http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Arcturian_Heresy - "With his last breath, the Underking's Heart roars a hole through the Battlemage's chest."

-Pelinal whitestrake also had a hole in his chest and was missing a heart and was able to walk around killing stuff
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_6 - "Still others, like Fifd of New Teed, say that beneath the Pelinal's star-armor was a chest that gaped open to show no heart"
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3. I never said Akatosh was a god of madness, only that he was mad.

Furthermore Akatosh and Shor are not hostile at all, Shor is hostile to Arui-el, but Auri-El is different then Akatosh. In fact Shor and his wife Kyne made an alliance with Kyranith and the other Imperial gods so they would wage war against the Elven gods.

Akatosh/Auri-El/Alkosh/Tosh Raka are all the same dragon-god of time yet each are separate individuals that fight against each other.

Just because Auri-el had Lorkhan killed, and Alkosh fought against Whitestreak when whitestreak killed Khajiit, does not mean Akatosh dislikes Shor/Lorkhan/Sithis

Furthermore Akatosh and Lorkhan/Shor/sithis have teamed up several times, The Dovahkiin, Martin Septim, Tiber Septim, Whitestreak and many other people were avatars of BOTH gods.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Furthermore Akatosh and Lorkhan/Shor/sithis have teamed up several times, The Dovahkiin, Martin Septim, Tiber Septim, Whitestreak and many other people were avatars of BOTH gods.

Hey so that means Dovhakiins insane actions, like murdering the Emporer then saving the world, can be attributed to bouts of insanity due to he/she being a mad avatar like Pelinal!

So a player doing things that make no sense from a roleplaying point of view now make sense from a roleplaying point of view!!!

I remember thinking it strange that the temple considers Pelinal a saint when he would go on massive rampages.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Hey so that means Dovhakiins insane actions, like murdering the Emporer then saving the world, can be attributed to bouts of insanity due to he/she being a mad avatar like Pelinal!

So a player doing things that make no sense from a roleplaying point of view now make sense from a roleplaying point of view!!!

I remember thinking it strange that the temple considers Pelinal a saint when he would go on massive rampages.

The ES universe is a strange one.

Anu/Padomay/Anuiel/Sithis/Akatosh/Lorkhan and Talos are all the same person.

Tiber Septim, Martin Spetim, The Dovahkiin, Ysmir Wulfharth, Zurin Arctus, Pelinal, and possibly all the main characters from every main game, are avatars of Lorkhan, with most of them also being avatars of Akatosh as well.

Kyranith, and Mara, specifically the Nordic Mara, have made peace pacts between their two pantheons to fight against the Mer gods.

Shor, the Nordic version of Lorkhan, once went to the underworld to talk to his Father/Son mirror-brother Lorkhan.

Tosh Raka, the Akaviri Akatosh, plans a war against his Tamriel father/son mirror-brothers Akatosh and Auri-El, while Akatosh fights Auri-el to help Talos who is Lorkhan keep the world from falling apart.

It is very confusing because all the races conflicting versions of the gods exist and can fight each-other when they are still technically the same god. The best way to describe it is all the gods suffer from multiple personality disorder, very very violent multiple personality disorder.

On top of that they are all dead, which is why this can happen in the first place.

As MK once described it.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride

On the different time-dragons:

Don't forget that gods can be shaped by the mythopoeic forces of the mantlers-- so Tosh Raka could be an Akaviri avatar of Akatosh with a grudge against his mirror-brother in Cyrodiil.

Just like Akatosh-as-we-usually-know-him could time-scheme against his mirror-brother of the Nords, Alduin, to keep the present kalpa-- perhaps his favorite-- from being eaten.

Notice all the coulds.

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Hey so that means Dovhakiins insane actions, like murdering the Emporer then saving the world, can be attributed to bouts of insanity due to he/she being a mad avatar like Pelinal!

So a player doing things that make no sense from a roleplaying point of view now make sense from a roleplaying point of view!!!

I remember thinking it strange that the temple considers Pelinal a saint when he would go on massive rampages.

The ES universe is a strange one.

Anu/Padomay/Anuiel/Sithis/Akatosh/Lorkhan and Talos are all the same person.

Tiber Septim, Martin Spetim, The Dovahkiin, Ysmir Wulfharth, Zurin Arctus, Pelinal, and possibly all the main characters from every main game, are avatars of Lorkhan, with most of them also being avatars of Akatosh as well.

Kyranith, and Mara, specifically the Nordic Mara, have made peace pacts between their two pantheons to fight against the Mer gods.

Shor, the Nordic version of Lorkhan, once went to the underworld to talk to his Father/Son mirror-brother Lorkhan.

Tosh Raka, the Akaviri Akatosh, plans a war against his Tamriel father/son mirror-brothers Akatosh and Auri-El, while Akatosh fights Auri-el to help Talos who is Lorkhan keep the world from falling apart.

It is very confusing because all the races conflicting versions of the gods exist and can fight each-other when they are still technically the same god. The best way to describe it is all the gods suffer from multiple personality disorder, very very violent multiple personality disorder.

On top of that they are all dead, which is why this can happen in the first place.

As MK once described it.
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride

On the different time-dragons:

Don't forget that gods can be shaped by the mythopoeic forces of the mantlers-- so Tosh Raka could be an Akaviri avatar of Akatosh with a grudge against his mirror-brother in Cyrodiil.

Just like Akatosh-as-we-usually-know-him could time-scheme against his mirror-brother of the Nords, Alduin, to keep the present kalpa-- perhaps his favorite-- from being eaten.

Notice all the coulds.

Is this just the Aedra or are the Daedra like this too?

Or is that because the Aedra are dead(in the way a god dies) but the daedra are still alive?

 

[SajuukKhar]

Is this just the Aedra or are the Daedra like this too?

Or is that because the Aedra are dead(in the way a god dies) but the daedra are still alive?

Only the Aedra are like that.

The Aedra are spirits who gave themselves to the mortal world in its creation, and subsequently died. They are a part of it, and can be manipulated by the thougts of the mortal beings in it.

The Daedra didn't take place in the creation of the mortal realm, they did not give up their power and life to create Mundus, which is why they are still "alive" so to speak. They are not bound as the Aedra are.

 

[ardias014]

1. True validation only means they told you what you did happened, which they do in the ES series. You are confusing validation of choice with follow-through of choice.
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2. All the gods are dead, they all died at the creation of the mortal world.
http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Monomyth - "Finally, the magical beings of Mythic Aurbis told the ultimate story -- that of their own death. "

Lorkhan only had his heart removed, his body wasn't torn up.

Also there is no conflict in the lore, both Oblivion AND Skyrim visually show that Akatosh is Lorkhan and vice-versa. I will explain it to you if you desire, but it is quite long.

Furthermore having your heart torn out means nothing abut your ability to do stuff. Just because Akatosh who is Lorkhan is dead and has had his heart removed does not prevent him from being able to appear manifest and fight Dagon and do other things.

-Look at Sithis, he has a giant gaping hole in his chest, and has his heart removed, because Sithis and Lorkhan are the same being, and he still gets around to ruling the Dark Brotherhood and taking souls. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111111090058/elderscrolls/images/3/3e/700889-sithis_super.jpg

-Zurin Arctus also had a hole blown in his chest and has his heart destroyed, by the original underking, and still managed to live for many years as the second underking
http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Arcturian_Heresy - "With his last breath, the Underking's Heart roars a hole through the Battlemage's chest."

-Pelinal whitestrake also had a hole in his chest and was missing a heart and was able to walk around killing stuff
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:The_Song_of_Pelinal,_v_6 - "Still others, like Fifd of New Teed, say that beneath the Pelinal's star-armor was a chest that gaped open to show no heart"
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3. I never said Akatosh was a god of madness, only that he was mad.

Furthermore Akatosh and Shor are not hostile at all, Shor is hostile to Arui-el, but Auri-El is different then Akatosh. In fact Shor and his wife Kyne made an alliance with Kyranith and the other Imperial gods so they would wage war against the Elven gods.

Akatosh/Auri-El/Alkosh/Tosh Raka are all the same dragon-god of time yet each are separate individuals that fight against each other.

Just because Auri-el had Lorkhan killed, and Alkosh fought against Whitestreak when whitestreak killed Khajiit, does not mean Akatosh dislikes Shor/Lorkhan/Sithis

Furthermore Akatosh and Lorkhan/Shor/sithis have teamed up several times, The Dovahkiin, Martin Septim, Tiber Septim, Whitestreak and many other people were avatars of BOTH gods.

1) Except they don't they tell you the outcome, they let you decide whatever you want think is the outcome. This allows you to shade in your events by leaving empty spaces, which in a way is self validation but not the game valiating things.
2) Monomyth is disputed in this area by other books and by Mankar in oblivion.
Also if you acknowledge that the monomyth is true, it states Lorkhan and Akatosh are seperate beings.
3) Yes, but you also implied that he was a complete and utter nutter, which can be seen as not the case from Pelinal's times of clarity. This also doesn't change the fact that Sheo wouldn't care what Akatosh did. Also if Akatosh were Lorkhan that means Lorkhan would be 2 divines.

Also to be honest most of the lore we argued about is supposed to be conflicting and not have a definitive answer to make it up to the player to decide. This also ties in with the nebulous spaces it leaves for your character's choices in the game.

Wow what was the original argument about?

 

[Fieldy409_v1legacy]

Is this just the Aedra or are the Daedra like this too?

Or is that because the Aedra are dead(in the way a god dies) but the daedra are still alive?

Only the Aedra are like that.

The Aedra are spirits who gave themselves to the mortal world in its creation, and subsequently died. They are a part of it, and can be manipulated by the thougts of the mortal beings in it.

The Daedra didn't take place in the creation of the mortal realm, they did not give up their power and life to create Mundus, which is why they are still "alive" so to speak. They are not bound as the Aedra are.

So does that make Aetherius, where the Aedra supposedly live, a lie?

 

[SajuukKhar]

1) Except they don't they tell you the outcome, they let you decide whatever you want think is the outcome. This allows you to shade in your events by leaving empty spaces, which in a way is self validation but not the game valiating things.
2) Monomyth is disputed in this area by other books and by Mankar in oblivion.
Also if you acknowledge that the monomyth is true, it states Lorkhan and Akatosh are seperate beings.
3) Yes, but you also implied that he was a complete and utter nutter, which can be seen as not the case from Pelinal's times of clarity. This also doesn't change the fact that Sheo wouldn't care what Akatosh did. Also if Akatosh were Lorkhan that means Lorkhan would be 2 divines.

Also to be honest most of the lore we argued about is supposed to be conflicting and not have a definitive answer to make it up to the player to decide. This also ties in with the nebulous spaces it leaves for your character's choices in the game.

Wow what was the original argument about?

1. The game validates your options by being designed to hav the world play out to were you are always right.

2. You are missing the point of Akatosh and Lokrhan's duality.

Akatosh and Lorkhan are the gods of time and space, time and space, much like in our own universe ARE THE SAME THING. We see them as two separate things because of the limited perspective we have.

The difference between time and space is the same as the difference between good and evil, right and wrong, moral and immoral, justice and injustice, Stasis and Chaos, it is an arbitrary line we draw in existence and action. It is a split that exists solely in imagination causing a creation of two things that are still really one thing.

The ES universe is affected by belief, that people see space and time as different things makes them appear as different things, however they are still truly one.

Akatosh being Lorkhan and Lorkhan being Akatosh does not make either two people, it makes them one thing, the god of existence, split by the limits of the mortal mind.

3. Pelinal was sane when the Lorkhanic parts of him took over.

Furthermore Sheogorath is part of Lokrhan's creativity cast from him when he died. Sheogorath caring about Akatosh/Lorkhan is in a way caring about himself.

4. Actually according to the Devs all conflicting lore happened simultaneously, there isn't anything vague or wrong all of it is true. To say that the ES lore is conflicting is to miss the entire point of the ES universe itself, which is to say belief affects and alters reality.

It is how each races versions of the gods can exist, have different motives and actions across time, and still be the same being. Akatosh, Tosh Raka, Auri-El are all the same being, yet the constantly fight each other and have different viewpoints.

Just as Lorkhan/Shor/Sep are all the same being yet each of them died differently.

Shor son of Shor, Aka son of Aka. Each are their own fathers and each are their own sons, neither was first, neither was second, each created eachother.

 

[ardias014]

1. The game validates your options by being designed to hav the world play out to were you are always right.

2. You are missing the point of Akatosh and Lokrhan's duality.

Akatosh and Lorkhan are the gods of time and space, time and space, much like in our own universe ARE THE SAME THING. We see them as two separate things because of the limited perspective we have.

The difference between time and space is the same as the difference between good and evil, right and wrong, moral and immoral, justice and injustice, it is an arbitrary line we draw in existence and action. It is a split that exists solely in imagination.

The ES universe is affected by belief, that people see space and time as different things makes them appear as different things, however they are still truly one.

Akatosh being Lorkhan and Lorkhan being Akatosh does not make either two people, it makes them one the god of existence, split by the limits of the mortal mind.

3. Pelinal was sane when the Lorkhanic parts of him took over.

Furthermore Sheogorath is part of Lokrhan's creativity cast from him when he died. Sheogorath caring about Akatosh/Lorkhan is in a way caring about himself.

4. Actually according to the Devs all conflicting lore happened simultaneously, there isn't anything vague or wrong all of it is true.

To say that the ES lore is conflicting is to miss the entire point of the Es universe itself. Which is to say belief affects and alters reality.

1)Except everything isn't true because its based on what you thought. The game isn't validating your choices, you are because they give you room to.
2)You are saying that because they are a duality, they are the same entity. It is like saying because batman represents order and joker represents chaos, they are the same entity. They aren't they are two different entities that are facets of a duality. All of the gods in Elder scrolls are like this and they are different entities.
3)Except Shivering Isles removed the direct connection between Sheogorath and Lorkhan. Lorkhan has no connection with the change of Jygalag because it took place long after the start of the mythic era when the aedra were cut off from the daedra. The Lorkhan/Sheo connection is only brought up in a few books.
4)According to only some of the devs. The way you view the events in the game are your choice because these devs didn't make their opinions apart of cannon. There is no RELIABLE source in game that says that everything is true.

 

[SajuukKhar]

1)Except everything isn't true because its based on what you thought. The game isn't validating your choices, you are because they give you room to.
2)You are saying that because they are a duality, they are the same entity. It is like saying because batman represents order and joker represents chaos, they are the same entity. They aren't they are two different entities that are facets of a duality. All of the gods in Elder scrolls are like this and they are different entities.
3)Except Shivering Isles removed the direct connection between Sheogorath and Lorkhan. Lorkhan has no connection with the change of Jygalag because it took place long after the start of the mythic era when the aedra were cut off from the daedra. The Lorkhan/Sheo connection is only brought up in a few books.
4)According to only some of the devs. The way you view the events in the game are your choice because these devs didn't make their opinions apart of cannon. There is no RELIABLE source in game that says that everything is true.

Except it is true because the game IS MADE SPECIFICALLY to be whatever you think as true. the entire game's design is to validate any possible actions one may have taken.
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No, it is a singularity observed as a duality. It is more akin to the relation between Bruce Wayne and his alter-ego Batman, that people see them as two different beings because they dont know they are the same, but that doesn't change the fact they are the same. Like space and time, which Lorkhan and Akatosh are, it is the limitations of the mortal mind that causes them to APPEAR as two when they are really one.

Seriously you are arguing the word of a Bethesda developer, the man who wrote Mankar Cameron's speech in Oblivion, the man who wrote Knights of the Nine, and the man who basically wrote Morrowind. It really doesn't matter if you dont think it makes sense or not, he says it is and thus it is. they even make mention of it in both Oblivion and Skyrim.

If you REALLY dont believe me go onto the official lore forums for the ES series and ask if Akatosh and Lorkhan are the same. Everyone will say yes they are.

Here is a link to the forms right here, seriously go there and ask.
http://forums.bethsoft.com/forum/16-elder-scrolls-lore/

And no all the gods are NOT like that in the ES series. Only Akatosh and Lorkhan have this singular seen as dual nature.
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Lorkhan is not bound to Mundus as the other gods are, a part of him, known as Sithis, rests in the void. Furthermore his death caused part of him to be flung from the mortal realm and attach itself to the being of chaos that Jyggy was turned into.
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Actually it is according to the devs in general, the Devs have said in multiple interviews and on the official lore furors that all these contradictory versions of the gods wxist. That it is not said in the game is irrelevant.

You are totally missing the point of the Es universe.

 

[Voulan]

Wow. And here I thought I knew plenty about the lore of TES. It's probably the most complicated universe I've ever heard of.

The whole duality of the Aedra, though, kind of makes sense. Each god takes on a persona of whatever each culture wishes them to be - hence, gods being both similar and different to the different races. I'd like to see more of that in the games, actually. All the more reason for a continuation of the Aldmeri wars - their own version of Talos. Does their disputing him mean that they are disowning their version of the god? Or am I missing the point entirely here?

But way back to my idea about the Dwemer returning, I've read up on this further. The Numidium was used by Tiber Septim to conquer the Aldmeri far back in the second era - and it succeeded. After Morrowind, the actual state of the machine is unknown. It's like a repeat in history - perhaps the machine will be used to conquer the elves again?

 

[Jynthor]

*Deleted* Nevermind, was on the wrong page, and quoted an ancient post.