The Elder Scrolls Future

[SajuukKhar]

Yeah that's pretty logical really. Still don't believe Skyrim had a story as good as Morrowind or Daggerfall though.

TES Lore is mindfucking. Did ALL 6 or whatever endings of Daggerfall happen then?

Yes, all possible endings, except the one were Numidium goes crazy and destroys all of Tamriel, happened.

 

[Mandal0re]

This is a TES lore discussion, by the way.

So, no doubt many of you have thought about the next possible location and plot for the Elder Scrolls series. While many people just list the most exciting location for the next game, I wish to discuss what realistically should be the next place we'll get to explore for several hours.

Obviously, from a plot perspective, the next game should cover the inevitable second Great War of the Aldmeri and the Empire - depending on which side you chose in the war, the Empire is either strengthened or Skyrim has become powerful in its own right. Reading in-game books about the war tells how Hammerfell managed, after its own rebellion from the White-Gold Concordant, to drive off the Aldmeri completely on its own - so, theoretically, Skyrim could now do the same. If the Empire is united with Skyrim in your game, then they gained a powerful ally - a whole new army, in their own right.

So, the Empire (or Skyrim and Hammerfell) will be a contender to take down the Aldmeri once and for all. But that plot alone isn't particularly interesting, though it is epic.

Now comes the theory part - I suggest the next game should see the return of the Dwemer. We know that the Dwemer had advanced technology that could read and record Elder Scrolls. They experimented heavily on them, it would seem. We also know that Alduin was shunted forward in time using an Elder Scroll, making him disappear without a trace from his own timeline. He then appeared in a far later timeline (a good 3 Eras later). Is it possible that the Dwemer, after an experiment gone wrong (or great hindsight) were shunted forward in time, explaining their sudden and collective disappearance? I know there's also a theory about Lorkhan's Heart, but this is my take.

So, if they were to end up suddenly in the present, I imagine the first thing they'd attempt is to take over with their advanced technology. And because they are elves, and must have a sense of superiority (hence the falmer), they would most likely side with the Aldmeri. Imagine the battles we'd have to take part in, with all that machinery!

Hopefully you enjoy reading, but the short of it is that since the Dwemer later moved and lived primarily in Hammerfell, and since that region is rebelling against the Aldmeri so strongly, the game should take place there.

Feel free to say your own ideas and theories. Silly ones, even.

Just thought you should know they confirm in Morrowind that it is the heart of Lorkhan which causes the disappearance of the Dwemer. Not only this but it is implied with the presence of dwemer ash piles and ghosts that they where killed not transported away (although this second point is my interpretation of the evidence in the game not set in stone lore). But basically there is no room in the lore for theories about what caused their disappearance, it was the heart and I personally doubt they will ever bring them back, although I suppose you never know.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Just thought you should know they confirm in Morrowind that it is the heart of Lorkhan which causes the disappearance of the Dwemer. Not only this but it is implied with the presence of dwemer ash piles and ghosts that they where killed not transported away (although this second point is my interpretation of the evidence in the game not set in stone lore). But basically there is no room in the lore for theories about what caused their disappearance, it was the heart and I personally doubt they will ever bring them back, although I suppose you never know.

FYI Morrowind was wrong.

The Heart wasn't the problem at all, I already posted a interview with the devs that explains the real reasons earlier in this thread.

Furthermore in Morroinwd all the people who tell you these things say they are only theories.

 

[Mandal0re]

Just thought you should know they confirm in Morrowind that it is the heart of Lorkhan which causes the disappearance of the Dwemer. Not only this but it is implied with the presence of dwemer ash piles and ghosts that they where killed not transported away (although this second point is my interpretation of the evidence in the game not set in stone lore). But basically there is no room in the lore for theories about what caused their disappearance, it was the heart and I personally doubt they will ever bring them back, although I suppose you never know.

FYI Morrowind was wrong.

The Heart wasn't the problem at all, I already posted a interview with the devs that explains the real reasons earlier in this thread.

Furthermore in Morroinwd all the people who tell you these things say they are only theories.

Ah I just read your post very interesting, and here I was assuming the information the game gave me would be enough to know what was going on. It's not the best story telling when the writers have to tell the fans outside of the game what actually happened. Never mind though,thank you for enlightening me.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Ah I just read your post very interesting, and here I was assuming the information the game gave me would be enough to know what was going on. It's not the best story telling when the writers have to tell the fans outside of the game what actually happened. Never mind though,thank you for enlightening me.

Trust me the ENTIRE story of the ES series is told outside the games, and only hinted at in the games.

I doubt you know of the meta-story between the games about the towers that hold up the mortal world falling, most people dont.

Or that sithis, Lorkhan, Akatosh, and Talos are the same person.

 

[tobi the good boy]

Can someone explain this to me - I've seen peopl chatting about it but I can't see evidence for it in game or find any in depth explanations on the internet for it so I am just slightly confused.

Long story short in the Es unvierse there is a process called mantling. Mantling, in simple terms, causes people to become other people.

Mantling is the process that turned the Champion of Cyrodill, the player character from Oblivion, into the Sheogorath we meet in Skyrim, despite that the Champion COULD have been an Argonian female.

Mantling occurs when a person performs a act of mythic importance that the person before him did, in the Champion's case it was foring his own Staff of Madness and sitting on the throne of madness like sheograth.

At the beginning of the mortal world Akatosh had Lorkhan killed and Magnus observed from the safety of Atherius.

This same act was performed by Tiber Septim, ysmir wulfharth, and Zurin Arctus when Tiber created the third empire causing them to merge and become Talos.

the roles that they filled are known as
-the general/Akatosh/tiber
-The Rebel/Lorkhan/Ysmir
-The Observer/ Magnus/Zurin

In skyrim's civil war we have
-2 generals, Ulfric and tullius
-2 rebels, Ulfirc agasint the Empire, and The Empire/Tullius againt the old nord beleifs
-An Observer, the Dovahkiin

At the end of the Civil war a General, tullius or Ulfirc, kills who they see as a rebel, the other, while the dovahkiin watches and in turn eaither create a re-untied Empire or a new indipendant Skyrim empire.

That Tullius, Ulfric and The Dovahkiin preformed the same actions, in creating a new/recreating the old, empire, which are also the actions that created the mortal world and the third empire means they have taken the first steps into mantling Talos.

Everytime you post about the elder scrolls a little part of me lights up inside. Would you be kind enough to explain what Sithis really is to me. In one of your posts you equated his existence in corispondence with Lorkhan in a fashion similar to god and jesus. I'm really interested in that bit of info.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Everytime you post about the elder scrolls a little part of me lights up inside. Would you be kind enough to explain what Sithis really is to me. In one of your posts you equated his existence in corispondence with Lorkhan in a fashion similar to god and jesus. I'm really interested in that bit of info.

In the beginning of time there existed two "forces"
-Stasis, who is named Anu
-Change, who is named Padomey
They existed in the void, a realm of pure nothing

Anu and Padomey met, and the meeting of stasis and change created the grey-maybe, were all other things exist.

The void is infinite in size, and the grey-maybe is inside the void, and is infinite in size. Inside the grey-maybe is Atherius, the realm of magic, infinite in size, inside Atherius is Oblivion, also infinite in size.

Anu and Padomey gave bodies to their souls, Anuiel and Sithis respectively.

Anuiel and Sithis then made their firstborn, the gods of time and space respectively, beings that represent everything is means to be stasis/change, these beings are called akatosh and Lorkhan respectively.

 

[Mandal0re]

Ah I just read your post very interesting, and here I was assuming the information the game gave me would be enough to know what was going on. It's not the best story telling when the writers have to tell the fans outside of the game what actually happened. Never mind though,thank you for enlightening me.

Trust me the ENTIRE story of the ES series is told outside the games, and only hinted at in the games.

I doubt you know of the meta-story between the games about the towers that hold up the mortal world falling, most people dont.

Or that sithis, Lorkhan, Akatosh, and Talos are the same person.

I've been an avid fan of the ES games since Morrowind and I've always consumed all the lore I could within the games although judging by your contributions to this thread I've barely scratched the surface. I love the ES lore although it really could be better presented, I'm thinking of games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect, far less interesting lore but much more clearly presented. Having said that what are your sources, it's obvious you've played ES games before Morrowind but as you yourself said most of the lore is outside of the games where are you getting your info? Not doubting it at all, just curious so I can go have a good 'ol read myself.

 

[Sansha]

We also know that Alduin was shunted forward in time using an Elder Scroll, making him disappear without a trace from his own timeline.

Spoiler alert, thanks for that.

I do agree that about the Dwemer. I'm fascinated and curious about them, especially in Skyrim. What I'd like to see, in regards to your theory of the second war, is maybe the next addition loading your Skyrim save to keep your choices intact ala Mass Effect 2.

 

[SajuukKhar]

I've been an avid fan of the ES games since Morrowind and I've always consumed all the lore I could within the games although judging by your contributions to this thread I've barely scratched the surface. I love the ES lore although it really could be better presented, I'm thinking of games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect, far less interesting lore but much more clearly presented. Having said that what are your sources, it's obvious you've played ES games before Morrowind but as you yourself said most of the lore is outside of the games where are you getting your info? Not doubting it at all, just curious so I can go have a good 'ol read myself.

Most of it comes from a guy names Michael Kirkbride.

Kirkbride worked for Bethesda during Morrowind, being the man who basically wrote Morrowind, and left shortly before it finished.

However Kirkbride and the rest of Bethesda are still really good friends, and they frequently contract him to write new lore for the games. Kirkbride wrote Mankar Cameron's speech in Oblivion, and he wrote the Knights of the Nine DLC, amongst other things.

Kirkbride often has a insider look at what Bethesda is doing, and writes cryptic lore about when he knows, and he writes lore to fill in plot-holes that inveitably come up with series that go on for this long. Furthermore Bethesda has often taken lore he made on his own and put it in their games.

Its kinda an odd situation where they take things from him and he takes things them.


You can find most of his stuff at these places
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/michael-kirkbrides-texts
http://www.imperial-library.info/content/forum-archives-michael-kirkbride

 

[Murmillos]

FYI Morrowind was wrong.

The Heart wasn't the problem at all, I already posted a interview with the devs that explains the real reasons earlier in this thread.

Furthermore in Morrowind all the people who tell you these things say they are only theories.

I'm not 100% up in the "out of game lore".. nor do I get most of MK's random teasing riddles (and yes, in game Dweamer lore is only written theories by said in game scholars), but if it wasn't the Heart (as all in game lore/theories strongly suggest), then what was it?. Because the interview with the dev doesn't explain anything (unless I'm missing what you intended to link too).

 

[SajuukKhar]

I'm not 100% up in the "out of game lore".. nor do I get most of MK's random teasing riddles (and yes, in game Dweamer lore is only written theories by said in game scholars), but if it wasn't the Heart (as all in game lore/theories strongly suggest), then what was it?. Because the interview with the dev doesn't explain anything (unless I'm missing what you intended to link too).

Nothing "went wrong", in regards to their race disappearing, the Dwemer WANTED to be merged with Numidium.

the question we should be asking is not "what caused them to vanish" but "why didn't Numidium active and ascend"

The answer to THAT is unknown.

 

[Murmillos]

Nothing "went wrong", in regards to their race disappearing, the Dwemer WANTED to be merged with Numidium.

the question we should be asking is not "what caused them to vanish" but "why didn't Numidium active and ascend"

The answer to THAT is unknown.

Right; makes sense. In game scholars would assume that something "went wrong" when a whole race just ups and goes, not realizing that was their intent in the first place; but the Heart was still the instrument for that to happen.

Even if 'all' Dwemer wanted to ascend/merge with Numidium, you could say that not all Dwemer could have agreed with Lord Kagrenac methods, feeling that his way was "false" and thus wish to resist his 'The Calling'.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Right; makes sense. In game scholars would assume that something "went wrong" when a whole race just ups and goes, not realizing that was their intent in the first place; but the Heart was still the instrument for that to happen.

Even if 'all' Dwemer wanted to ascend/merge with Numidium, you could say that not all Dwemer could have agreed with Lord Kagrenac methods, feeling that his way was "false" and thus wish to resist his 'The Calling'.

From the information we have, all the Dwemer, even the Rourken clan who so hated the idea of being allies with the Dunmer that they exiled themselves and moved to Hammerfell, wanted to go all Numidiumish.

Is it possible some didn't? I guess but the Dwemer, from all we have seen, were devoted to the cause.

 

[verdant monkai]

Dwemmer returning is a great idea, I would love to play as one. Your theory is a great one by the way good thinking. As for me Skyrim was great but it was not alien looking enough for me I want the next game to be set in either VALENWOOD or BLACKMARSH, think how great they would be to adventure in.

 

[tobi the good boy]

Everytime you post about the elder scrolls a little part of me lights up inside. Would you be kind enough to explain what Sithis really is to me. In one of your posts you equated his existence in corispondence with Lorkhan in a fashion similar to god and jesus. I'm really interested in that bit of info.

In the beginning of time there existed two "forces"
-Stasis, who is named Anu
-Change, who is named Padomey
They existed in the void, a realm of pure nothing

Anu and Padomey met, and the meeting of stasis and change created the grey-maybe, were all other things exist.

The void is infinite in size, and the grey-maybe is inside the void, and is infinite in size. Inside the grey-maybe is Atherius, the realm of magic, infinite in size, inside Atherius is Oblivion, also infinite in size.

Anu and Padomey gave bodies to their souls, Anuiel and Sithis respectively.

Anuiel and Sithis then made their firstborn, the gods of time and space respectively, beings that represent everything is means to be stasis/change, these beings are called akatosh and Lorkhan respectively.

I always assumed that Sithis was the void? So Sithis is really just the force of change in the universe?

 

[JasonKaotic]

That is a pretty good observation, actually. But the disintegrated remains of Dwemer in Morrowind beg to differ with your theory. Still, that would be interesting to see.
But yeah, the next one will definitely take place either during the next war against the Thalmor or it's aftermath. Hopefully during, I'd love to cleave the smug grin off their friggin' faces.
If it does, I suppose the Summerset Isles would be a possible location for the next game. They could pull a Daggerfall and let us go to another province at the same time too, which would be cool. Maybe we start in the other one and fight our way over to the Isles.

 

[Murmillos]

Did some digging thru some Morrowind related Dwemer fact finding quest:

uesp.net states the following:

Lorewemer
It appears that the Dwemer were inconclusive as to their opinion of using of the Heart. Some opposed its use, warning that massive side effects were likely,[4] while the majority of the Tonal Architects, including their chief, Kagrenac, and Bthuand Mzahnch (who wrote The Egg of Time which downplayed the risks of tampering with the Heart of Lorkhan) remained unconvinced.

[4] = Yagrum Bagarn's dialogue in Morrowind

... "why didn't Numidium active and ascend"

The answer to THAT is unknown.

Morrowind:Mystery_of_the_Dwarves
"The Egg of Time" seems to be a refutation of the idea that linking to a divine source of power can be dangerous if interrupted. Perhaps the author was wrong, and this is what happened to the Dwarves.

You are right, it is unknown, but we do have a clearer picture. If the process was interrupted, or had perhaps went wrong - then they never did ascend to Numidium (or not in quantity enough to activate him) and most of them (souls) were lost in the process.

But as I previously questioned; if some were opposed to the idea of Lord Kagrenac use of the Heart, would they have tried to do something about it to prevent being dragged down the path he forged? Either by an Elder Scroll, Daedric Lord, higher Divine intervention, Dwemer implausible infinity machine...

 

[SajuukKhar]

I always assumed that Sithis was the void? So Sithis is really just the force of change in the universe?

Sithis lives in the void, where he collects souls for a unknown purpose, but yeah Sithis is change incarnate.

You are right, it is unknown, but we do have a clearer picture. If the process was interrupted, or had perhaps went wrong - then they never did ascend to Numidium (or not in quantity enough to activate him) and most of them (souls) were lost in the process.

But as I previously questioned; if some were opposed to the idea of Lord Kagrenac use of the Heart, would they have tried to do something about it to prevent being dragged down the path he forged? Either by an Elder Scroll, Daedric Lord, higher Divine intervention, Dwemer implausible infinity machine...

It wasn't that the souls were lost, the fact that Numidium has its brass skin shows that they were applied correctly.

furthermore as far as we know all the Mer, with the exception of the Dunmer and Orismer hate the mortal realm. No matter the differences in culture the Mer simply hate the mortal world.

there is no known reason for any Dwemer to try to sabotage it, there is no known reason for any of the Daedra or Aedra to do so either.

 

[tobi the good boy]

I always assumed that Sithis was the void? So Sithis is really just the force of change in the universe?

Sithis lives in the void.

But yeah Sithis is change incarnate.

What makes him all that different from Mehrunes Dagon? Is one stronger than the other?