I say change the name. Just add modders instead of community. That would have solved the issue for me at least. xD80Maxwell08 said:
Just giving you an idea, no need to listen. ^^
The Elder Scrolls modders amaze me.
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Just giving you an idea, no need to listen. ^^
Hell if I know; The Elder Scrolls is definitely not my cup of tea, and the fact that they tend to be buggier than an ant farm isn't exactly a point in their favor for me.
If Bethesda were wise, though, they'd start hiring some of these modders, though, assuming they don't. I'm sure said modders wouldn't mind having the job, and Bethesda could obviously use the help.
If Bethesda were wise, though, they'd start hiring some of these modders, though, assuming they don't. I'm sure said modders wouldn't mind having the job, and Bethesda could obviously use the help.
To answer your question, I really don't know. Modders do what they like, just for the satisfaction of having a working item or entire questline or what-have-you that they created themselves.
I love the serious because of both of these reasons, but mostly because it is the only RPG I have played that doesn't force you to play the game one way. I can play as a warrior in any of their games and then shift over to a mage or rogue just by leveling up those skills and it lets me become good at all skill sets if I want to.Patrick_and_the_ricks said:
It's fake. It's just a "big coporation sucks, little people rock" feel-good story that doesn't really match reality.80Maxwell08 said:
Source: 10 years of playing elder scrolls since Morrowind, all on PC, only about 5-10% of my time playing mods, and never having a bug that I couldn't quickly fix by reloading a save or using a console command. Sure, the games have "flaws", just like all games do, but straight out bugs? Not especially, sure people make you tube videos but that stuff never actually happens to me (hint: most of them are breaking the game on purpose because they are bored after playing dozens of 100s of hours).
P.S. I never patched Oblivion or Morrowind from the versions I bought them as (around launch), specifically avoided it because I generally don't like patches.
I hated every game up to Skyrim for these reasons. Skyrim is leagues better in every regard. Better gameplay, very few bugs, much better writing and interesting characters. They could still learn a thing or two from BioWare regarding characters and story. But they have improved a lot since Oblivion.
Ok so I haven't played Skyrim yet (my games back log is longer than a school yard) but I've played more than 150hours of oblivion and i feel like I've barely scratched the surface with that game. There is no other game series that's gives a player so much freedom. The world is an empty canvas and a blank script. Who your character is and what his/her story is yours to write.
Morrowind really hooked me. The sheer amount of content squirreled away in in game books blew my mind. The open go anywhere, do anything sandbox I got turned loose in. Morrowind had a real capacity to make it feel like you were taking possession of your own corner of the world, too. Actually, possession is probably the wrong word.80Maxwell08 said:
Morrowind engaged at a level I'm not used to, but it felt like some kind of home. And some of that was just RPing, but some of that sticks with me. I don't know if it's the same for people who played Oblivion first, in Skyrim, but I always regretted not being able to go back to Vvardenfell or Solstheim in Oblivion. The thing is, even in Skyrim, when looking at the state of The Empire, it feels like this place I've been away from, and come back to. Sorry, I'm usually pretty coherent, but for me, I've got a kind of attachment to the setting I can't adequately define.
The only other game series where I can remember hitting something like this were Fallout, where I always regretted not being able to go back to California in 3, and Arcanum.
DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNERAstylahAthrys said:
Mr OP try the first three words. A game can be buggy or ugly or incomplete or slow but at the end of the day if its fun? No one cares. It has achieved its goal. It as worked.
STALKER was horrible by every measure. Broken game, i had to edit the source files several times, mod a few more and change anti aliasing over and over between saves THEN trick the computer into thinking i had a different graphics card JUST TO RUN IT.
Amazing game... truly amazing. So. Much. Fun. Slow as hell at times, horrifically slow, but AWESOME FUN.
Why do fans of vehicle buy a perfectly ok vehicle, and then spend hours and hours + money and money tweaking every last possible tweak to iron out the final creases and make there car that bit better? To maximise their enjoyment!
Also, some people just like being creative, and creating mods to get a different, but familiar experience isn't so different from the thousands who spend hours locked away playing minecraft, or playing with Lego...! The human mind likes to set upon projects that will have an outcome that will be pleasing! Same deal as lego...!
Also, some people just like being creative, and creating mods to get a different, but familiar experience isn't so different from the thousands who spend hours locked away playing minecraft, or playing with Lego...! The human mind likes to set upon projects that will have an outcome that will be pleasing! Same deal as lego...!
Just to go over some points
People play Elder Scrolls games for the world. They(We) play it for the open-ended world and the total sandbox nature of it. You can do basically whatever you want, and every single person you talk to will have a difference experience. Even people who choose identical playstyles will have totally different weapons/armor and places they have visited because the world is so huge and detailed.
On a side note, in all these games id say the bugs are exagerated. yes they exist but they dont actually happen as often as they are made out.
The reason its so popular with modders is because mods are actually very easy to make with the engines that Bethesda uses. Hell I picked up the Oblivion toolkit an dmade myself a castle with about 20 minutes of reading up on a wiki. Its very easy to do, and people who are good at it can make very high quality mods which can drastically improve the experience. The game is basically an open canvas to them to do whatever they want. And at the end of the day, its fun.
Never encountered a single game breaking or noticeable bug in the 58 hours Ive played. In Oblivion I clocked over 700 hours and found a small handful of bugs that were actually problematic, and Inever got the unnoffical patch. ALSO same thign with New vegas with was "bug-ridden", I finished the game before the uber patch came out and had no problems.80Maxwell08 said:
Id call it average, but Ill get to why it doesnt matter in a moment.80Maxwell08 said:
Argueable. But...the reason the combat, the reason the story and the NPC are all average and nobody cares and still gives it high scores is this.80Maxwell08 said:
People play Elder Scrolls games for the world. They(We) play it for the open-ended world and the total sandbox nature of it. You can do basically whatever you want, and every single person you talk to will have a difference experience. Even people who choose identical playstyles will have totally different weapons/armor and places they have visited because the world is so huge and detailed.
On a side note, in all these games id say the bugs are exagerated. yes they exist but they dont actually happen as often as they are made out.
The reason its so popular with modders is because mods are actually very easy to make with the engines that Bethesda uses. Hell I picked up the Oblivion toolkit an dmade myself a castle with about 20 minutes of reading up on a wiki. Its very easy to do, and people who are good at it can make very high quality mods which can drastically improve the experience. The game is basically an open canvas to them to do whatever they want. And at the end of the day, its fun.
Besides the fact that TES games are a lot of fun, have been at the top of graphical splendor when released and present a massive gameworld that lets you do whatever you want....
well, mods ofcourse, making mods for this game is really easy compared to most games.
And when you think about it: all games that had made lots of mods made for them did even better after release: Quake, half-life (gave us Counter-strike) fall out 3 and TES 3-5 are the most obvious ones. It adds immensly to the (top)shelf-life of the game and value for money.
In case of Skyrim, if you would play it now and "finish it" before the end of the year...you will want to come back 3 months after the mod tools are released. You can then pick a whole bunch of mods and feel like your playing a brand new, different game. And 3 months after that AGAIN!
Once the mods start rolling out, other people who use and make them, start getting ideas for bigger/better mods because of that. It's the community inspiring itself to make the perfect game for everybody and because you can pick whatever mod you like, you can tailor it to your very own taste so it will fit you perfectly and if it's not good enough, you can fix it yourself: it really isn't that hard to do. It is positive reinforcement for everybody involved in making and using mods, only adding to the fun of the game and most of all tinkering with it.
If you spend an evening building your own perfect house and then using it is 2 times it's reward.
well, mods ofcourse, making mods for this game is really easy compared to most games.
And when you think about it: all games that had made lots of mods made for them did even better after release: Quake, half-life (gave us Counter-strike) fall out 3 and TES 3-5 are the most obvious ones. It adds immensly to the (top)shelf-life of the game and value for money.
In case of Skyrim, if you would play it now and "finish it" before the end of the year...you will want to come back 3 months after the mod tools are released. You can then pick a whole bunch of mods and feel like your playing a brand new, different game. And 3 months after that AGAIN!
Once the mods start rolling out, other people who use and make them, start getting ideas for bigger/better mods because of that. It's the community inspiring itself to make the perfect game for everybody and because you can pick whatever mod you like, you can tailor it to your very own taste so it will fit you perfectly and if it's not good enough, you can fix it yourself: it really isn't that hard to do. It is positive reinforcement for everybody involved in making and using mods, only adding to the fun of the game and most of all tinkering with it.
If you spend an evening building your own perfect house and then using it is 2 times it's reward.
[HEADING=3]Now, you better read this as it factually answers your question[/HEADING]
It's not perfect. It is buggy and the main quest is arguably short. What it is, though, is fucking enjoyable. I can do almost whatever I want, when I want; stylise my character to be how I want him to be; and have extreme fun while playing it.
DETAILS:
It doesn't require me to sit down for a hundred hours back-to-back; but doesn't punish me if I do. It doesn't require me to spend extra money to keep the fun going, but offers it as a side option. It doesn't give for competitiveness and multiplayer, but it does offer the best non-scripted single player experiences in gaming to date. It's just amazing. It doesn't force me to do anything, really, but allows me to do nearly anything I want.
TEARING APART YOUR MAIN POINT:
Now, you said it yourself - the modding community are still updating the Unofficial Oblivion Patch to this day. Point proven, if Bathesda were to release one of their games bug-free, we would have to see it shelved for another 5-10 years after their usual release date while they continued to work on it for an-indefinite ever.
When programming, it is very easy to change a single word/variable/line of code that disrupts another, hidden function elsewhere in the program. You just would never have thought that change would have had any kind of influence to something unassumingly related. It's a right pain in the arse but it happens. Even if you're program is a tiny 10mb's big (like some of mine ((Not an innuendo!))), you will have to spend HOURS running the program in debug mode, trawling through lines of code hunting for bugs, which is why all programs get updated post-release (V1.1, V2.32.43.556.6, etc.).
Now try making a 6GB open-ended program where there are a hundred thousand times more variables that you're average buggy FPS. Even a development team of 100, and a testing team of 200 and a year of time to spend couldn't iron out all of the bugs. This now nullifies one of your strongest points. the more variables in a program, the more testing it needs by a lot more.
It is impossible to make something bug-free and still make money from it, unless you're program is a simple calculator suite; or about as linear as a movie, CoD >:[, as then there are almost no variables and the program runs from one subroutine straight into another and no variables so-to-speak; of which can still be buggy after an hour of testing.
SUMMARY, NOT A TL;DR:
We enjoy it so much because it is a good game, and in terms of bugs - it's just not as bad as it could've been. Something as scripted as CoD on the other hand, should be ashamed for even a few bugs, not the shitstorm of faults MW2 was.
It's an excellently designed game that is flawlessly publicised and done in a way that it seeps with lore and ticks all expecting fans' boxes; keeping the experience fresh but not straying too far from its roots. That is why we play it.
It's not perfect. It is buggy and the main quest is arguably short. What it is, though, is fucking enjoyable. I can do almost whatever I want, when I want; stylise my character to be how I want him to be; and have extreme fun while playing it.
DETAILS:
It doesn't require me to sit down for a hundred hours back-to-back; but doesn't punish me if I do. It doesn't require me to spend extra money to keep the fun going, but offers it as a side option. It doesn't give for competitiveness and multiplayer, but it does offer the best non-scripted single player experiences in gaming to date. It's just amazing. It doesn't force me to do anything, really, but allows me to do nearly anything I want.
TEARING APART YOUR MAIN POINT:
Now, you said it yourself - the modding community are still updating the Unofficial Oblivion Patch to this day. Point proven, if Bathesda were to release one of their games bug-free, we would have to see it shelved for another 5-10 years after their usual release date while they continued to work on it for an-indefinite ever.
When programming, it is very easy to change a single word/variable/line of code that disrupts another, hidden function elsewhere in the program. You just would never have thought that change would have had any kind of influence to something unassumingly related. It's a right pain in the arse but it happens. Even if you're program is a tiny 10mb's big (like some of mine ((Not an innuendo!))), you will have to spend HOURS running the program in debug mode, trawling through lines of code hunting for bugs, which is why all programs get updated post-release (V1.1, V2.32.43.556.6, etc.).
Now try making a 6GB open-ended program where there are a hundred thousand times more variables that you're average buggy FPS. Even a development team of 100, and a testing team of 200 and a year of time to spend couldn't iron out all of the bugs. This now nullifies one of your strongest points. the more variables in a program, the more testing it needs by a lot more.
It is impossible to make something bug-free and still make money from it, unless you're program is a simple calculator suite; or about as linear as a movie, CoD >:[, as then there are almost no variables and the program runs from one subroutine straight into another and no variables so-to-speak; of which can still be buggy after an hour of testing.
SUMMARY, NOT A TL;DR:
We enjoy it so much because it is a good game, and in terms of bugs - it's just not as bad as it could've been. Something as scripted as CoD on the other hand, should be ashamed for even a few bugs, not the shitstorm of faults MW2 was.
It's an excellently designed game that is flawlessly publicised and done in a way that it seeps with lore and ticks all expecting fans' boxes; keeping the experience fresh but not straying too far from its roots. That is why we play it.
No you didn't answer my question. None of you but one single person answered my question. Because none of you even read my question right. The question was why people are so much more dedicated to modding it than any other game I've ever heard of. Granted this was answered early on by Hal10k who was probably the only person here to even read it right.Bvenged said:
I mentioned the Elder Scrolls because of Oblivion not Skyrim. I mentioned Skyrim a few times but that was never the focus.GoddyofAus said: