The Elder Scrolls Online Player Emperors to Get Permanent Skills

[Pixelspeech]

I initially misread the title and thought people who attained the rank of emperor could be permanently killed off, which would have been funny in a different way. I am not as opposed to the idea as others on this forum and I can only say that I look forward to the delicious drama that will come from this; who knew the best Game of Thrones scenarios we were ever going to see in a game would come from a wholly different franchise!

Sadly, I doubt this will be as exciting as people think it will. Bethesda is putting a lot of emphasis on the PvP, but in my 4/5 years of playing World of Warcraft, I noticed PvP was limited to battlegrounds only with very few players actually bothering to participate in 'World PvP'. I could just walk around and take over a few towers in the Plaguelands with nobody showing up to stop me.

 

[Demagogue]

Sorry for the multiple quotes, but I really want to address all these comments at once rather than scroll up and look every few seconds. First off I'd like to question why so negative about skills we know nothing about? So far all this is saying is that they will indeed get something, but what this tree will entail is unknown. In may online games you'll see awards for the MVP or the guy with the most head shots, how is this any different. Just that there's a tangible reward for it rather than just simple medal makes it seem a bad idea.

Most people have already addressed this, but in many games where you see MVPs and such you also see 30 minute matches and the like, which is a completely different style of PvP than a RvRvR style PvP. As for the negativity, perhaps it isn't negativity it is experience from playing other MMOs with this broken style of PvP rewards? Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean they are being negative.

In the end I think many are under the assumption that Emperor will make the winner godlike.

You have to remember that we only get like 5-6 skills to use at a time in ESO as well, so if you are using your 'Emperor' skill it has to be good enough to be worth sacrificing the weapon/class skill you took off your bar for it. They mention that past emperors will have a weaker version of it, this too would have to be stronger than normal weapon/class skills if you want it to be worth anything to use.

But what I see is that the amount of skill, time, and effort to obtain it should player is by no means weak to begin with. Do you really think coming in first place of anything is a fluke. Sometimes luck comes into play, but in my book skill often trumps luck.

Again as others have said... skill will have nothing to do with Emperor in this system. It will go to those who have the most time, share their accounts, or Mega-Guilds that lock everyone other than their 'candidate' out of the running.

Said perks will either grant some other benefit to someone that's dedicated themselves to PvP. Maybe it will give them a NPC furnished housing or a personal store that earns them funds. Discounts in purchases and random caches of loot. Special mounts or skills that enhance damage under special conditions. Whatever it is; they earned it. I don't think calling foul so quickly really does much good.

Except they didn't say perk... they said skill. Which negates any idea for discounts, or flavor items, or vanity houses, or anything else that you listed in here save for the last. 'Skills that enhance damage under special conditions' because you know being able to kill people quicker wouldn't be unbalanced in PvP at all...

 

[AntiChri5]

*sigh*

Another notable Emperor of the time period was "xXJizzinmypantsXx" who reigned for nearly two weeks before being overthrown by "Tehdrizzit", who ruled for only one before the brutal coup of "iKillNoobz"

Yeah this is really adding to the universe.

To be fair, this is an inherent problem with people on the internet, rather than a bad idea on The Elder Scrolls Online's part. It's the problem that leads to Red Army soldiers spraying pornographic Furry tags on the dilapidated walls of Stalingrad in Red Orchestra and dick-joke based guilds in any MMORPG. Don't get me wrong, I think it's incredibly moronic myself but there's not much you can do about it, besides setting up role-playing servers/purging the internet I guess.

It's not so much the douchy names that i object to but the fact that this shit is a part of the Elder Scrolls universe. If they just called it something other then "Emperor" i probably wouldn't have a problem with it.

But this? It's shitting all over the lore for a quick cash in.

 

[Kahani]

I would compare this to something like Eve's tournaments. While in theory they're open to everyone, they also require being part of an alliance and spending a lot of time and in-game resources to have any chance at all. They're often won not by the outright bets players, but those who are best at the metagame. And the prizes are absolutely unique things that are more powerful than anything equivalent to anyone else.

The difference is that, this being Eve, the prizes are still just ships and can still easily be lost, whereas in TESO the prize is a permanent boost to your character. But what this shows is that the idea isn't terrible in principle - Eve has been doing this for years and remains one of the few MMOs to have consistently grown over that time. What matters is what the skills actually do and how much they might cost you in other areas (for example, if you have a limited number of skill points opening up a new tree might give you more options, but it won't necessarily make you any more powerful overall since you'll have to sacrifice other skills to be able to use the new ones). Since we don't have that information yet, complaining that the idea exists at all seems rather pointless.

 

[ecoho]

sounds like a good idea. Now hear me out before you burn me at the stake, this is a good idea because the hardest thing ive ever had to do was find a decent PvP leader that could do the job well. this is mostly due to the fact that those people usually get the short end of the stick,(low k/d ratios and such) but with this they have a reason to go all out organize a real team effort and win something great. Now as for the skill tree whos to say it wouldn't be just a pve advantage? I mean if the skill doesn't effect pvp would it matter? or if it was something as simple as being able to upgrade a castle under siege or teleport to select location would the average player care? no. the only people who will ***** and whine about his when the game comes out will be those lone wolf asshats who never work with the team but think they are the best people on the team cause they have the highest kill ratio.(see COD MP high scorers)

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

How many times has this idea been floated by an MMO before, in one form or another? The idea of making one player out of thousands 'special' is a gimmick that will only ever be utilised by those who can stand endless grind and insane guild politics.

You know what would be a better idea? A game with some kind of rough feudal system that could be followed. Make it so people can acquire major or minor titles, and they can issue generic orders to lesser-ranked players, who aren't forced to comply with them but are rewarded in-game if they do. Ditch the concept of 'leveling' and design the game so that even being a lowly peasant fills fun if you can see yourself as part of something big. Make it so people have something to do on the way to being 'Emperor'.

 

[SamtheDeathclaw]

Bethesda is not making this game.

No, but they're publishing it and spending their money on it, and you bet your bottom dollar they're getting the vast bulk of the money it draws in, so the net result is roughly the same.

The only thing that changes with Zenimax making the game is that, if it turns out badly, people blame a different studio for the game being bad. But Bethesda has control over this project and they green-lit it all, so let's not disillusion ourselves too much here. *shrug*

You're taking what I said out of context to talk about something completely different here, which is kind of annoying.

To clarify: I was not talking about the ramifications of who publishes the game, who gets the money, or who gets the blame if the game is bad.

I was talking about the fact that, as Bethsoft is not actively developing this game, they are free to pursue their own single-player game.

If your point has nothing to do with what I was talking about, as in this case, please don't quote me.

 

[SecondPrize]

I had kinda hoped that since they were betting so much on the three-way pvp endgame they'd come out with good reasons to do it. Now I no longer have that hope.

 

[Arawn]

Most people have already addressed this, but in many games where you see MVPs and such you also see 30 minute matches and the like, which is a completely different style of PvP than a RvRvR style PvP. As for the negativity, perhaps it isn't negativity it is experience from playing other MMOs with this broken style of PvP rewards? Just because someone doesn't agree with you, doesn't mean they are being negative.

I too have played many a MMO. For the most part the PvP systems have some similarities; you fight, you win, you lose, you get a reward. The reward might just be a score to put you on the leaderboard, perhaps special credits to spend towards exclusive PvP items, or some other minute prize. I wouldn't call it broken. Using a loophole, glitch, or illegal action would make it broken. Can't really say I've done alot of PvP to notice such short comings firsthand. And yes it is being negative as they are against the idea of the PvP Emperor. Although since I am in accepting of the concept it is disagreeing with me as well. To pretty much dismiss it without seeing it in action? Yes others have done something similar, but we have yet to see if it will work or not.

You have to remember that we only get like 5-6 skills to use at a time in ESO as well, so if you are using your 'Emperor' skill it has to be good enough to be worth sacrificing the weapon/class skill you took off your bar for it. They mention that past emperors will have a weaker version of it, this too would have to be stronger than normal weapon/class skills if you want it to be worth anything to use.

Still I do believe/think the intent is to empower the Emperor, but not cement their position. We don't know what skills they might get, but why would they make it so potent that no one else would be able to contend with him/her? Should they lose their title said skills are lessened. Seems like they expect the title to change hands. Who doesn't want to dethrone the king? It's a competition and everyone wants to be #1. Making that impossible is counter productive for such a system.

Again as others have said... skill will have nothing to do with Emperor in this system. It will go to those who have the most time, share their accounts, or Mega-Guilds that lock everyone other than their 'candidate' out of the running.

Zero skill required? Join a guild, spend some time, and presto you win. Not a bit of work involved. A guild will do all of that for you. They'll keep anyone from possibly winning said title. No way anyone could come up with their own group and try the same. No way someone else can invest time and effort. It's all so simple and easy anyone can do it. And yet you say not everyone can. You won't win by doing nothing. Even with the best of support you're not unbeatable and there's no certainty that your group won't be trounced by the next. I dare say I find that insulting both yourself and anyone to say that there's no skill involved. Someone doesn't always win by luck.It's not a coincidence everytime. I'm sure you've done amazing things in games, was no part of that due to your ability? Grinding for hours, looting, even building a guild takes skill.

Except they didn't say perk... they said skill. Which negates any idea for discounts, or flavor items, or vanity houses, or anything else that you listed in here save for the last. 'Skills that enhance damage under special conditions' because you know being able to kill people quicker wouldn't be unbalanced in PvP at all...

Perks as in the skills to be given or perks as in benefit of being Emperor. Conditional damage isn't that impressive if you take said condition into account. Say it's like a thief's sneak attack that it only works from behind and with low damage weapons. Being restricted to a certain weapon. It could even be a slight change in multiplier on critical hits. What if it increased damage but lowers attack speed by half? A tradeoff ability or trait is possible. But as I said I don't think it will be something that keeps the player from losing their title. Just doesn't make sense like that. It should be rewarding to obtain those skills, and even more so to try keep them.

 

[Genocidicles]

Oh wow, make the best players even better so no one else stands a chance against them.

Sounds like a cracking idea chaps!

 

[Demagogue]

I too have played many a MMO. For the most part the PvP systems have some similarities; you fight, you win, you lose, you get a reward. The reward might just be a score to put you on the leaderboard, perhaps special credits to spend towards exclusive PvP items, or some other minute prize. I wouldn't call it broken. Using a loophole, glitch, or illegal action would make it broken. Can't really say I've done alot of PvP to notice such short comings firsthand. And yes it is being negative as they are against the idea of the PvP Emperor. Although since I am in accepting of the concept it is disagreeing with me as well. To pretty much dismiss it without seeing it in action? Yes others have done something similar, but we have yet to see if it will work or not.

Sorry I guess I was a little harsh, I am definitely all for a PvP Emperor, 100%, The person that contributes the most to their faction holding Cyrodil that week/month/whatever should most definitely be recognized for that effort and work they put in. My problem is with giving that person anything other than a vanity title or item in the game. Lets look at your suggestions:

Score to put on leader board - Perfectly fine, assuming they do leader boards. One of the best parts of RvR in WAR (Warhammer Age of Reckoning) was seeing your name break the top ten for a week in top kills, or renown gained. But not what they said they're doing.

Credits to spend on PvP items - Is the only way to get these credits by being Emperor? Or do you just get slightly more? Are there items that only Emperors can purchase? This one is a slippery slope and while it can work it is easy to screw up the balance in the game with it as well.

Minute Prizes - Vanity items sure. But not what they said they're doing.

Umm... I was referring to people using loopholes, glitches, or illegal actions to break it. Because the second you put something that makes people better than others in a game play mechanic way, you WILL have people do whatever it takes to get that skill tree. Its not an if... unfortunately there ARE people out there who would rather cheat a system to get something than try and earn it legitimately.

As for dismissing it without seeing it in action... I've never put my hand on a hot stove element, but I know not to because I'll burn myself. Learning from other's experiences is an extremely helpful factor in planing/designing game mechanics, and life in general.

Still I do believe/think the intent is to empower the Emperor, but not cement their position. We don't know what skills they might get, but why would they make it so potent that no one else would be able to contend with him/her? Should they lose their title said skills are lessened. Seems like they expect the title to change hands. Who doesn't want to dethrone the king? It's a competition and everyone wants to be #1. Making that impossible is counter productive for such a system.

I believe you are correct that the point is to empower the emperor, and as you mentioned earlier we don't KNOW what the skills are yet so it is very hard for anyone including myself to say they will be broken, all we can do is take past examples, and apply some logic to it and make best guesses at this moment.


To answer your question about making it so potent that no one else would be able to contend with the Emperor. They have to make the skill strong enough to justify the Emperor putting it on one of their limited action spots since as I mentioned we only get like 5-6 I believe. If you have a weapon skill that lets you cast a spell that does 25 damage (I'm totally just making numbers at this point) and as the Emperor you get a spell that lets you do 20 damage. Would you replace your spell? Of course not. So the Emperor skill has to be better than your spell... so lets make the Emperor spell do 35 damage, and the weaker version of it do 30 (for past Emperor's) now, it isn't a HUGE bonus to your combat, but it still is slightly better. However, you've also now made the Emperor role stronger than anyone could possibly be, so all other things being equal the Emperor would never die in 1v1 combat. And maybe that is okay... maybe you should have to attack a Past Emperor with 2-3 people or an Emperor 4-5 people to kill them...However, what happens when you start getting groups of past emperors traveling together? Now all of a sudden you have a group of 5 past emperors who can take on 10-15 people guarding that tower, or keep, or whatever. Do you see how it snowballs quickly? And this is just small little groups, weren't they talking about having PvP in ESO be like 100s or 1000s of people in a zone fighting?

Zero skill required? Join a guild, spend some time, and presto you win. Not a bit of work involved. A guild will do all of that for you. They'll keep anyone from possibly winning said title. No way anyone could come up with their own group and try the same. No way someone else can invest time and effort. It's all so simple and easy anyone can do it. And yet you say not everyone can. You won't win by doing nothing. Even with the best of support you're not unbeatable and there's no certainty that your group won't be trounced by the next. I dare say I find that insulting both yourself and anyone to say that there's no skill involved. Someone doesn't always win by luck.It's not a coincidence everytime. I'm sure you've done amazing things in games, was no part of that due to your ability? Grinding for hours, looting, even building a guild takes skill.

You doubt the zero skill required, but it has been done in the past in other MMOs. Is it super common, no; but it is possible. Although I didn't say no work would be involved... You join a guild, pay them 10,000 gold (lets say) and then they go around and slaughter things in PvP with you, keep you alive, let you capture towers, keeps, etc boosting your Alliance Points. A serious guild about doing it would even have guild members in other factions to come around and be cannon fodder for you to kill, retake keeps from you (so you could reclaim them).

As for denying the title to others... they can boost your Alliance Points so high that unless the other people are doing the same thing you are they would never get enough Alliance Points to catch up with you in 'normal' PvP play. (Which just means now EVERYONE has to exploit the system to stand a chance, which is what a bunch of us were saying). Depending on the size of the guild they can deny you alliance points as well... if you are in your group of 5 people capturing keeps and such, and they are a guild of 200, they simply go out and capture everything before you can get there, thus denying you alliance points that way.

Time and effort only get you so far in PvP. Teamwork is what will get people Emperor status, and if you aren't part of the 200 (random number) member PvP group on the server and they don't want you to be the emperor, then you won't be the emperor no matter how much time and effort you put in, unless you cheat somehow.

I'm not sure where I said its simple and easy and anyone can do it, and yet not everyone can. I'm not sure if you just missed quoting that piece or not or if that is in reference to someone else.

Again, I didn't say you could win by doing nothing... I said you could win without having any skill whatsoever. There is a BIG difference between the two.

Since you mentioned earlier that you haven't PvP'd all that much to notice the shortcomings, maybe you should heed this argument to those who have. With the best support you can definitely becoming unbeatable in other games, so why would ESO be any different. You can have a group that is untrounceable by anyone other than another faction pulling the same loophole/abuse you are only doing it better (which again is what ruins PvP and is what many of us have been saying).

You can find it insulting if you like... but you seem to be under the impression that I think you don't need skill to PvP, which isn't the case. However with the system the ESO is implying there is absolutely no skill involved with BECOMING EMPEROR. It will be all about Teamwork (which it SHOULD be). As a result any team can compensate for one deadweight member in their team. And if you want that deadweight person to be emperor, than as a TEAM you can make that happen with no one being able to stop you, unless they have a bigger/more dedicated team.

Perks as in the skills to be given or perks as in benefit of being Emperor. Conditional damage isn't that impressive if you take said condition into account. Say it's like a thief's sneak attack that it only works from behind and with low damage weapons. Being restricted to a certain weapon. It could even be a slight change in multiplier on critical hits. What if it increased damage but lowers attack speed by half? A tradeoff ability or trait is possible. But as I said I don't think it will be something that keeps the player from losing their title. Just doesn't make sense like that. It should be rewarding to obtain those skills, and even more so to try keep them.

"Players who become Emperor will get a full skill line that they keep throughout the rest of their lives in The Elder Scrolls Online," Paul Sage observed.

Skills, not perks. That is what their game director said. So lets look at your suggestions...

a positional requirement skill (attack from behind or whatever) I'm a ranged caster and I have to attack from behind? well that skill is useless to me then.
okay so how about multiple skills with different conditionals. Okay... However, one of the benefits of ESO is that you can change your play style based off your weapon... Now you have a skill tree that you are either:
a) wasting points it to get the back-stab skill and the ranged skill (for example) or
b) a tree that is locking you into a play style. (oh you took back-stab? I guess you'll be doing MDPS in pvp from now on)

Your Trade off suggestion, again going back to my point above... you need to make the skills attractive enough for people to justify replacing one of their normal skills with it, or what is the point?

 

[Dragonlayer]

*sigh*

Another notable Emperor of the time period was "xXJizzinmypantsXx" who reigned for nearly two weeks before being overthrown by "Tehdrizzit", who ruled for only one before the brutal coup of "iKillNoobz"

Yeah this is really adding to the universe.

To be fair, this is an inherent problem with people on the internet, rather than a bad idea on The Elder Scrolls Online's part. It's the problem that leads to Red Army soldiers spraying pornographic Furry tags on the dilapidated walls of Stalingrad in Red Orchestra and dick-joke based guilds in any MMORPG. Don't get me wrong, I think it's incredibly moronic myself but there's not much you can do about it, besides setting up role-playing servers/purging the internet I guess.

It's not so much the douchy names that i object to but the fact that this shit is a part of the Elder Scrolls universe. If they just called it something other then "Emperor" i probably wouldn't have a problem with it.

But this? It's shitting all over the lore for a quick cash in.

Well what could they have used in place of "Emperor"? I'm no expert on the lore (having only technically dipped my toes in it, via Oblivion and Skyrim ) but I thought there had been a continuing series of various empires in Tamriel.

 

[DarkhoIlow]

reminds me a little of the old Grand Marshal / High Warlord system except with elite skills rather than gear,
in WoW, the smart pvpers aiming for GM/HW would work together and organize who would gain rank 14 that week,
not necessarily a bad system, but basically if you weren't part of their clique it would be nearly impossible to achieve the rank alone.

I am actually one of those "crazy" people that actually got High Warlord two times back in those days. I remember doing this during summer by playing 16-18 hours a day for 3 months to get that rank. It was a chore, but not many people could of done that and I was very happy with the title.

For ESO though, this might be very bad for it because things like this usually just riles people up if they don't have access for such things (most of them anyway) especially since they are paying a sub for it.