The Elder Scrolls VI: Gameplay Changes

Paragon Fury

The Loud Shadow
Jan 23, 2009
5,161
0
0
WARNING: Long read ahead. Prepare yourself.

So while playing Skyrim earlier today, I was talking with a friend about what could make the next Elder Scrolls game (no, not the MMO, which I think for most people won't count anyway except for some interesting lore stuff) better in some core areas. My friend didn't have much to say beyond "It needs to be better". I on the other hand actually had a rather detailed list of things that could be done to improve some key things in the next. A lot of it is just combinations or refinements of things from other Bethesda games, but it would definitely help.

So here is what I thought:

- The Return of Classes, Major/Minor Skills
Classes should return, like they were in Oblivion with some modifications. You still have the "Thief, Mage, Warrior" archetypes, but within them you can choose things like Paladin (Restoration Warrior), Witchblade (Magical Assassin), Battleamage etc. You could still of course make your own class. Major skills level the fastest, then minor skills, and then skills that are neither major nor minor level the slowest. Classes help a lot in roleplay, and Major/Minor skills help define how a class plays. The ability to make your own class lets you build whatever you want, so you're aren't limited, just defined.

- Racial Skill Bonuses
Rather than starting with higher skill in something, your Racial Skill bonus should mean you're just naturally more talented at learning that skill - essentially it gives you 2/3 extra minor skills - or if they skills are minor skills for your class, ups them to the level of major skills.

- Return of Attributes/Abilities
In Skyrim, the three attributes are Health, Magicika and Stamina. In the Elder Scrolls VI, these should be replaced with a version of the "SPECIAL" system from Fallout 3/New Vegas. I like to call it "SECIAD" for Strength, Endurance, Charisma, Intellect, Athleticism and Dexterity. Each attribute governs a certain area of a character - Strength governs damage with melee weapons, strength of your shield block, how often you can stagger enemies, how often they stagger you and if you can intimidate people. Endurance raises your health, carry capacity and reduces the effects of DoT abilities. Charisma governs how well people like you, how you can influence people, and how well you barter - in addition, too low a charisma score means some segments of society may not want to interact with you. Intellect governs your available magicika, how fast you level up skills, and opens up some dialogue options depending on how smart/stupid you are. Athleticism governs how long and how fast you can sprint, and gives you more stamina. Dexterity governs the damage of bows, sneaking effectiveness, pickpocket success and lockpicking.

Each race starts with naturally higher/lower attributes - High Elves start with higher intellect and lower strength, etc. These can be increased with level-ups - every time you level up you can spend a small amount of points to level up attributes however you see fit.

- Skills System Revamp
The way skills and perks are handled in Skyrim is interesting, but I think they could be done better. First thing is "skill scaling" - essentially, as a skill in a certain area levels up, your base abilities in that skills are also go up. Instead of taking "Armsman" to upgrade the damage your one-handed weapons do, just leveling up One-Handed will make your one-handed weapons more powerful. The same with Magic, Archery and Armor, etc.

"Perks" instead should be treated like "talents" - basically, things that your constant use of the skill and practice have taught you. Even odd numbered level you're given a Perk point to spend, and you can choose one perk you meet the skill requirement for, like Skyrim or Fallout. However instead of the perks like Armsman or the Novice>Master perks, perks are designed to actually affect gameplay.

An example of the new perks would be something like these Restoration options:

Healer - Spells with healing effects cost 25% to cast
Regeneration - Healing effects of spells are 25% more effective
Banisher - Spells that affect the Undead are 25% more effective
Bane of Death - Healing effects damage the Undead
Golden Hands - Can Dual-Cast Restoration Spells for 2x effectiveness

etc.

- Loot/Smithing Overhaul
Essentially, these does what Morrowind did - the high level equipment (Glass, Elven, Dwarven, Deadric, Ebony etc.) is no longer Smithable or buyable (with rare exceptions) - initially. Instead the high level equipment can only be found by dungeon diving, searching, and stealing it from the people who are wealthy enough to own it. Some things, like Dwarven, Elven or Orcish might appear in shops occasionally, but you have no chance of ever seeing Ebony, Glass, Dragon Bone or Deadric in a shop or randomly on some bandit. You'll have to explore and find the best equipment.

The one exception is if your Smithing skill is high enough, you can find and read/be taught how to make these pieces of equipment once you locate the right person/find the right book. It make sense that you wouldn't gain magical knowledge on how to make the best equipment by Smithing 1000s of daggers and jewelery, but an experienced Smith could be taught how to make the best equipment for themselves.

- Armor/Clothing
Equip-able items need to be expanded - something like Head, Left/Right Shoulder, Chest, Legs, Feet, Cloak, 2x Rings, Necklace, Shields.

- "Semi" Scaling
A big sticking point for a lot of people is nature of scaling in Bethesda games.
I can see the issue, but I understand its use. Rather than scrap it, I purpose "Semi" Scaling instead. "Semi" scaling means that only certain parts/quests are scaled to the player, or only scaled by a small amount, in order to facilitate play at all levels of the game. So for instance, the Main Quest would be scaled to the player, and so would some of the early guild quests, but random areas, dungeons, roads, cities, later guild quests, certain side quests etc. would not be scaled, IE: you could wonder into a dungeon meant for level 45 characters at level 13, for instance.

- Magic and Spells
Spells, as noted before, should scale with your skill level. This eliminates the different levels of the same spell - essentially the only differences spells should be delivery and effects. IE: There would be no "Turn Undead" and "Turn Lesser Undead" spells. Instead there would be just "Turn Undead" and the spell would be a projectile, touch or AoE spell. Or another example, there would be "Fire", "Fire Projectile", "Fire Touch" etc.

Custom spells should come back as well, as well as some new elements - Earth spells?

- Reputation/Factions Relationships
Its quite simple - becoming friendly with one faction makes another dislike you, and vice versa. This can and should escalate to exclusion from their cities/towns, vendors, quests and even result in being attacked on sight. IE: Becoming too friendly with the Dark Brotherhood makes the Companions no longer like you because they believe you to have no honor and refuse to deal with you.

Also, having a certain reputation should affect how NPC interact with you - for example, the Master of the Dark Brotherhood should inspire terror in mere bandits and cause them to flee rather than fight.

- Hardcore Mode
Hardcore Mode from New Vegas needs to appear again. Except I purpose it be divided three ways:
Normal, Advanced and Hardcore. Normal would be like default Skyrim or Fallout - no need to eat, sleep etc. Level up anywhere. Advanced would require you to eat, drink and sleep to stay alive. Hardcore would require all that, plus you could only level up when you slept, and there would be environmental effects to worry about - cold in Skyrim, heat in Hammerfell, etc.

There was a bit more, but I tire of typing, so I'll leave it as it is for now.
 

DustyDrB

Made of ticky tacky
Jan 19, 2010
8,365
3
43
XP for completing quests. I just really hate how experience gains are done in Elder Scrolls, as it most rewards grinding. On the flip-side, I don't grind at all in New Vegas and still reach the level cap because I complete quests. That's my biggest issue with the Elder Scrolls series, actually.
 

SUPA FRANKY

New member
Aug 18, 2009
1,889
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Good point, besides the return of Major/Minor Skills, Classes, etc. I like how Skyrim did it better. Just use what you like than you'll level. But opinions.

Combat:

It be cool if they allowed combat styles. A sword could be used as a quick assassination tool, or a heaving brute's weapon. You could learn styles by studying under masters ( Doing a bit of quest like cut hat punching bag three times, or lifting dumbbells or something. Each weapon ( Swords, Hammers, Spears, Axes) could have multiple styles and it could work like a rock paper scissors system ( The Way of the Swift Sword would have trouble being The Way of the Monster Brute.) Also, it would be cool if they added things from mods like Deadl Reflex. Throwing Weapons, Dodges, Parries, Ctitical spots ( Shoot someone in the heart, they are done for. Cut off an opponents hands and they are out.)

More functions for the world.

Darker dungeons, Bandits carrying torches while in dungeons, Covering someone in oil and then set them on fire, Taking out his friends will make enemies try to escape, Being able t stab a fire enchanted sword into he ground and set the place a flamed. Covering someone in flames while they are low on health will make them scream and retreat, etc, shit like this will lead to awesome tales.

Magic more like an unusual, strange force rather than the generic fantasy copout.

I know most people might not agree, but it would be cool if when you obtain a spell, you'd have to practice it to get good at it. Say you want someone to explode in flames with a fire spell. It work once, then probably you might set a barrel on fire, and then it might back fire and send you flying.

Also, they should add some spells from mods like turning people into bunnies, or opening black holes.
 

Luca72

New member
Dec 6, 2011
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I would love to see Hardcore mode as an option. Also, I think I have a good fix for combat. Unless Bethesda comes up with a revolutionary first person "attack, block, dodge, parry" system, they aren't going to make protracted sword fights feel interesting. My suggestion is on the harder difficulties go for the "realistic" mode of old shooters. This means, you and your enemy both can only take a few sword hits before you die.

I hated using a power attack with my two-handed weapon. There would be this great moment of lifting the weapon, using up stamina, and feeling like I was about to hit my enemy with a huge amount of force. Then I'm rewarded with a generic "hit" sound, and the enemy loses a fifth of their health. Once I realized how unrewarding the melee combat was going to be I opted for a thief character.

With that thief, I had a moment of near perfect immersion. An shirtless bandit Orc with a 2-handed sword spotted me and started charging. His power attack diced my character instantly. Unfortunately, I had saved after he spotted me, so I had to fight him. That fight was amazing, because I knew what would happen to me if that weapon hit. So I'd like to see combat that's fast and brutal, instead of protracted and boring. Also, I'd really like different weapon types to animate and behave differently.

As for factions, I agree that your relationship with one should affect others. Also, I think the way you gain prestige in a faction should be more like Morrowind. There you had a number of faction "houses" in different cities, which offered different quests and methods of advancement. In Morrowind when you made your way through a faction you really felt like a newbie doing odd jobs, and eventually becoming a trusted and respected member. In Skyrim, you join the faction, do a few over-the-top action missions, and suddenly you're the destined ruler of that faction. Bleh.

So basically... just do what Morrowind did, except with the new engine! :)
 

Space Spoons

New member
Aug 21, 2008
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Different save slots for different characters. That's all I've ever wanted out of a Bethesda game.
 

Paragon Fury

The Loud Shadow
Jan 23, 2009
5,161
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SirBryghtside said:
Those are some neat ideas - definitely think they should do that sort of class system. But your last point, hardcore mode?

...no. It worked in Fallout because it was all about survival, and there were points where beds, food and water were hard to come by, or provided negatives (rads). In TES, you would just be able to walk into a shop, spend 10 gold, and be done. It's something best left as roleplay on the player's part, as it really wouldn't provide any challenge as a game mechanic.
You've not seen Chesko's Frostfall or Imp's Needs Mod, have you?
 

Saviordd1

New member
Jan 2, 2011
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DustyDrB said:
XP for completing quests. I just really hate how experience gains are done in Elder Scrolls, as it most rewards grinding. On the flip-side, I don't grind at all in New Vegas and still reach the level cap because I complete quests. That's my biggest issue with the Elder Scrolls series, actually.
This, plus a reworking of magic, don't ask me how but Magic is NEVER balanced properly.

But really, XP, I don't care that they're trying to be unique. If I do a quest I want XP damnit.
 

Nannernade

New member
May 18, 2009
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I think they need to make the characters a little more immersive for example the first time you enter Windhelm you notice the drunk nords giving the dark elf a hard time and when she speaks you can tell she's angry yes, but the actions are missing you'd kind of expect a character like that to maybe I don't know slap one of the nords or something, some NPC's will read something for example Commander Maro during the quest To Kill an Empire you hand him the Writ of Passage and he pulls it out and starts going over it. Just the small details really.

Also... bring back Chameleon and seperate leg and torso slots. >.<
 

Reaper195

New member
Jul 5, 2009
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The only things I hope the sixth game changes is much nmore variety in smithing (Such as you can also melt back down weapons for parts, things like plates, spoons, and random, useless items can also be used) as well as some more depth in the magic. Maybe even the ability to create spells with specific effects. Having played Oblivion and Morrowind about three months before Skyrim came out, I loved Skyrim's changes, particularly the lack of weapon damage. Because weapon damage is fucking bullshit.
 

SecondPrize

New member
Mar 12, 2012
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Combat that is fun, npcs that are life-like and maybe a little QA testing this time around would be nice.
 

WaysideMaze

The Butcher On Your Back
Apr 25, 2010
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Luca72 said:
So basically... just do what Morrowind did, except with the new engine! :)
This just sums up my feeling perfectly. Just make Morrowind with Skyrims graphics, and a better combat system. I would be all over that.
 

Montezuma's Lawyer

New member
Nov 5, 2011
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Considering the fact that "Classes" didnt exist in the first place, and were merely a way to change your skills around at the start of the game, No. I do NOT want them returning.
 

gim73

New member
Jul 17, 2008
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Okay, so what you want in ES6, is that it was ES3...

Morrowind was a great game. I played it for thousands of hours. But that game had some problems. Combat felt pretty stiff, jumping looked silly, and don't get me started about the flying monsters pecking out your head every six seconds.

Oblivion was a good game, but it kinda dumbed down a whole lotta things from Morrowind. A couple of things that really didn't work was scaled loot and monsters.

Now Skyrim was actually an evolution forward in the series. Actually leveling up was rewarded, and it didn't seem like you were giving up a times five multiplier if you were leveling fast.
 

Darkmantle

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Oct 30, 2011
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WaysideMaze said:
Luca72 said:
So basically... just do what Morrowind did, except with the new engine! :)
This just sums up my feeling perfectly. Just make Morrowind with Skyrims graphics, and a better combat system. I would be all over that.
I'm not sure what is encompassed by engine so I'll just ask, does the new engine include the actual combat mechanics? because I hated the combat mechanics in morrowind. I hate that my sword connecting is not necessarily a hit, I hated not being able to manually control my shield.

And I do not know how people could find that enjoyable. Unless they enjoyed the game despite those flaws.
 

halfeclipse

New member
Nov 8, 2008
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Paragon Fury said:
- The Return of Classes, Major/Minor Skills
Classes should return, like they were in Oblivion with some modifications. You still have the "Thief, Mage, Warrior" archetypes, but within them you can choose things like Paladin (Restoration Warrior), Witchblade (Magical Assassin), Battleamage etc. You could still of course make your own class. Major skills level the fastest, then minor skills, and then skills that are neither major nor minor level the slowest. Classes help a lot in roleplay, and Major/Minor skills help define how a class plays. The ability to make your own class lets you build whatever you want, so you're aren't limited, just defined.

Why? If I'm running around throwing fireballs and lighting I'm clearly a mage, if I've got a sword and plate Armour at the same time, battle mage. Bow and arrow and light armor instead? Archer. It could do with laying out classes better then in Skyrim, but a pop up menu is not the way to do it.

- Racial Skill Bonuses
Rather than starting with higher skill in something, your Racial Skill bonus should mean you're just naturally more talented at learning that skill - essentially it gives you 2/3 extra minor skills - or if they skills are minor skills for your class, ups them to the level of major skills

See above

- Return of Attributes/Abilities
In Skyrim, the three attributes are Health, Magicika and Stamina. In the Elder Scrolls VI, these should be replaced with a version of the "SPECIAL" system from Fallout 3/New Vegas. I like to call it "SECIAD" for Strength, Endurance, Charisma, Intellect, Athleticism and Dexterity. Each attribute governs a certain area of a character - Strength governs damage with melee weapons, strength of your shield block, how often you can stagger enemies, how often they stagger you and if you can intimidate people. Endurance raises your health, carry capacity and reduces the effects of DoT abilities. Charisma governs how well people like you, how you can influence people, and how well you barter - in addition, too low a charisma score means some segments of society may not want to interact with you. Intellect governs your available magicika, how fast you level up skills, and opens up some dialogue options depending on how smart/stupid you are. Athleticism governs how long and how fast you can sprint, and gives you more stamina. Dexterity governs the damage of bows, sneaking effectiveness, pickpocket success and lockpicking.

The various skills already cover 90% of that. Increasing One Hand increases damage with one hand weapons, Speech makes people like you more, *insert magic school* reduces the magika cost of spells in that school, Pickpocket increases your chance to pickpocket, so on and so forth. The only things that aren't affected are total stam, health, magicka and carry weight, which is why they're the only attributes in Skyrim.

Each race starts with naturally higher/lower attributes - High Elves start with higher intellect and lower strength, etc. These can be increased with level-ups - every time you level up you can spend a small amount of points to level up attributes however you see fit.

- Skills System Revamp
The way skills and perks are handled in Skyrim is interesting, but I think they could be done better. First thing is "skill scaling" - essentially, as a skill in a certain area levels up, your base abilities in that skills are also go up. Instead of taking "Armsman" to upgrade the damage your one-handed weapons do, just leveling up One-Handed will make your one-handed weapons more powerful. The same with Magic, Archery and Armor, etc.

"Perks" instead should be treated like "talents" - basically, things that your constant use of the skill and practice have taught you. Even odd numbered level you're given a Perk point to spend, and you can choose one perk you meet the skill requirement for, like Skyrim or Fallout. However instead of the perks like Armsman or the Novice>Master perks, perks are designed to actually affect gameplay.

An example of the new perks would be something like these Restoration options:

Healer - Spells with healing effects cost 25% to cast
Regeneration - Healing effects of spells are 25% more effective
Banisher - Spells that affect the Undead are 25% more effective
Bane of Death - Healing effects damage the Undead
Golden Hands - Can Dual-Cast Restoration Spells for 2x effectiveness

etc.

Skyrim does this. More points in Restoration reduces the magicka cost of the spell and increases it's effectiveness. Perks are extra that adds further effect on top of the base effect.


- Loot/Smithing Overhaul
Essentially, these does what Morrowind did - the high level equipment (Glass, Elven, Dwarven, Deadric, Ebony etc.) is no longer Smithable or buyable (with rare exceptions) - initially. Instead the high level equipment can only be found by dungeon diving, searching, and stealing it from the people who are wealthy enough to own it. Some things, like Dwarven, Elven or Orcish might appear in shops occasionally, but you have no chance of ever seeing Ebony, Glass, Dragon Bone or Deadric in a shop or randomly on some bandit. You'll have to explore and find the best equipment.

The one exception is if your Smithing skill is high enough, you can find and read/be taught how to make these pieces of equipment once you locate the right person/find the right book. It make sense that you wouldn't gain magical knowledge on how to make the best equipment by Smithing 1000s of daggers and jewelery, but an experienced Smith could be taught how to make the best equipment for themselves.

+1. Should also have the option to get these things made/enchanted for you, though expensive as hell.

- Armor/Clothing
Equip-able items need to be expanded - something like Head, Left/Right Shoulder, Chest, Legs, Feet, Cloak, 2x Rings, Necklace, Shields.

Eh. Gear is mostly useful for the stats. Getting +5 from pauldrons and chest and +5 from a chest piece that includes pauldrons is the same. It may even have negative effects; a game like the elder scrolls works by having a pile of different objects interacting with one another. More armor slots would increase the complexity of character models exponentially.

- "Semi" Scaling
A big sticking point for a lot of people is nature of scaling in Bethesda games.
I can see the issue, but I understand its use. Rather than scrap it, I purpose "Semi" Scaling instead. "Semi" scaling means that only certain parts/quests are scaled to the player, or only scaled by a small amount, in order to facilitate play at all levels of the game. So for instance, the Main Quest would be scaled to the player, and so would some of the early guild quests, but random areas, dungeons, roads, cities, later guild quests, certain side quests etc. would not be scaled, IE: you could wonder into a dungeon meant for level 45 characters at level 13, for instance.

Personally apathetic here. I've never had a problem with level scaling so at all, so...

- Magic and Spells
Spells, as noted before, should scale with your skill level. This eliminates the different levels of the same spell - essentially the only differences spells should be delivery and effects. IE: There would be no "Turn Undead" and "Turn Lesser Undead" spells. Instead there would be just "Turn Undead" and the spell would be a projectile, touch or AoE spell. Or another example, there would be "Fire", "Fire Projectile", "Fire Touch" etc.

Custom spells should come back as well, as well as some new elements - Earth spells?

They do scale and if anything they should scale less with more differentiation of spells, lasting longer and etc. With Skyrim my mages tend to use Lightning Bolt/Thunderbolt and not much else. A wizard done right should basically be a magical batman.

- Reputation/Factions Relationships
Its quite simple - becoming friendly with one faction makes another dislike you, and vice versa. This can and should escalate to exclusion from their cities/towns, vendors, quests and even result in being attacked on sight. IE: Becoming too friendly with the Dark Brotherhood makes the Companions no longer like you because they believe you to have no honor and refuse to deal with you.

Also, having a certain reputation should affect how NPC interact with you - for example, the Master of the Dark Brotherhood should inspire terror in mere bandits and cause them to flee rather than fight.


- Hardcore Mode
Hardcore Mode from New Vegas needs to appear again. Except I purpose it be divided three ways:
Normal, Advanced and Hardcore. Normal would be like default Skyrim or Fallout - no need to eat, sleep etc. Level up anywhere. Advanced would require you to eat, drink and sleep to stay alive. Hardcore would require all that, plus you could only level up when you slept, and there would be environmental effects to worry about - cold in Skyrim, heat in Hammerfell, etc.

no complaints for either of those two