The escapist, I need your help.

[FortheLegion]

Spoiler: Jesus Camp

That's very disturbing.

I can hardly believe the anti-government and anti-free thought going on
This is what's wrong with the world
Those kids don't look happy

 

[I Max95]

well just talk to her and ask about what went down at her camp

i have nothing against heavy christian just forcing your views on people and that appears to be the case
it seems she came to her own conclusion as to what to believe and that camp took it away from her

 

[pretentiousname01]

Someones brain got a scrubbing.

 

[ShadowsofHope]

Spoiler: Jesus Camp

Oh.. god. That.

I swear, between this and horrific looking supernatural little girls.. that may almost take the cake. Almost.

OT: I.. really don't know what to say? Brainwashing? Intensely repressed feelings before/after? *Shrugs*

 

[Marble Dragon]

If she decided to let God come into her life, then you should be happy for her; becoming a Christian is the greatest thing that could ever happen to someone.

Becoming a religious person is a huge step and a huge lifestyle change. And it is typically something that you don't get this serious about in a week. People who dive into religion and are super serious this early into it generally won't stick with it this seriously for more than a month or two. I'm a Christian, and I have no problem admitting that. But getting to the point that I am now as far as how seriously I take it wasn't easy. It takes willpower and a true belief in God. Not a couple things you learned at a week camp.

Exactly. I hope that she is serious about being a Christian.

Religion isn't simply a phase; it should be the most-important thing to a person.

If she's being cold and looking down on other people, it isn't a good change for her, in my opinion. I'm not religious; I think that I can make my own decisions about being a good person. I don't need a pastor to tell me what's right and what's wrong, and while I believe that God could exist, I don't feel I need him in my life. Being a Christian would just enrage me. However, for some people, religion can help guide them through all the troubles of life. My priorities are different than some people's. Personally, I have this one as a first:

1. Be good to other the other things on Earth. I don't give a shit who made them: they're other living things and you should be good to them.

I think that a truly positive religion would enforce kindness. Look at all those people saying, "Oh yeah, the Buddhist monk who has devoted his entire life to practicing kindness and bringing about peace - he deserves eternal torture because he didn't revert from the faith he was raised in to worship my god." Bullshit. If that's what God thinks, I'm not going to be his servant. People who constantly act 'holier than thou' are missing the point somewhat, in my opinion.

OP, I'm not sure what to tell you. It may be just a phase that she'll grow out of. Perhaps she experienced a truly life-changing thing at camp, and she thinks that now being a Christian is the right way. Let her. My guess is that she's just insecure about her new religion and is A) Being extremely strong about her new opinions and teachings in order to reinforce herself and/or B) Acting cold toward other people because she's self absorbed and trying to figure out what the hell is going on inside.

I think your friend will figure out the best path for her in her own good time. Trying to find what's right for you is a really hard thing to do - it requires deep searching within your own being. Give her some time. But if she continues to be a ***** about it, remind her that you aren't going to take that. "You're free to have your own beliefs, and I will respect them so long as you respect my own." And, if it applies, "If you're going to try to force your beliefs onto me, I don't want to be your friend." The way I see it, being religious is okay, but trying to force it onto other people in any way is not.

Off topic somewhat: Mad World, your name made me drop what I was doing and go listen to that Tears for Fears song immediately. No joke, it did. I like that song...

 

[BreakfastMan]

Two questions: Does this change seem for the worse? I know you expressed that she seemed closed-off and less loving, but is this everyone's opinions, or just yours? She seems to have experienced something powerful at this camp that have changed her life, and that might be a good thing. I know this seems like a drastic change, but I doubt that this is a bad thing if it seems to give her as much joy as you seem to present. Back to my questions for a second, if the answer to my questions is, respectively, yes and all your friends agree with you on this, I would confront her with this. Christian's are supposed to be loving, and if you confront her with this, it might provoke a positive change.

P.S. Full Disclosure: I am a Christian. Take from that what you will.

 

[kikon9]

Get a group of people together for any amount of time and with the right manipulation you can turn anyone to pretty much anything.

I'm not sure how to best answer you without making negative comments about certain aspects of the Christian community but it sounds an awful lot like brainwashing. I'm sure you can find the documentaries online where they visit these camps and I was truely sickened. My personal feelings for Christianity aside, just the methods employed shocked me and I couldn't believe anyone could target children in such a manner.

Ultimately, if she is happy, or she believes she is happy then there is little you can do to change that. If anything, trying to get in the way will simply make her cut ties with you. You or your friends cannot reverse the conditioning which occured during that week. That may sound harsh but incredibly clever conditioning is exactly what it is.

I should point out this doesn't happen will all christians, just certain groups and it sounds like that is the kind of place she went to.

Spoiler: Jesus Camp

If you think you can undo the kind of shit seen above, then good luck to you.

I'm not afraid of terrorists, serial killers, cannibals, or eldritch monstrosities. But that scared the fuck out of me.

 

[lacktheknack]

Religion can do that... if she's acting superior to you, tell her to read what the Bible says on humility. Otherwise, just let it go.

Seriously, I've known people who undergo the breakneck change and are better off from it.

 

[Mad World]

If she's being cold and looking down on other people, it isn't a good change for her, in my opinion. I'm not religious; I think that I can make my own decisions about being a good person. I don't need a pastor to tell me what's right and what's wrong, and while I believe that God could exist, I don't feel I need him in my life. Being a Christian would just enrage me. However, for some people, religion can help guide them through all the troubles of life. My priorities are different than some people's. Personally, I have this one as a first:

1. Be good to other the other things on Earth. I don't give a shit who made them: they're other living things and you should be good to them.

I think that a truly positive religion would enforce kindness. Look at all those people saying, "Oh yeah, the Buddhist monk who has devoted his entire life to practicing kindness and bringing about peace - he deserves eternal torture because he didn't revert from the faith he was raised in to worship my god." Bullshit. If that's what God thinks, I'm not going to be his servant. People who constantly act 'holier than thou' are missing the point somewhat, in my opinion.

If she is treating others poorly, that does not mean that the change to Christianity was bad. Rather, she needs to realize that being a Christian isn't about acting better than those who are not, and also to realize that everyone deserves to be treated well.

As for the hypothetical Buddhist monk, while he practiced kindness his entire life, he ignored the most-important being of all: God. After all that Jesus has done for him, he refused to accept Him as Lord and Saviour; and as a result, he deserves Hell. God is just and perfect; therefore, He must fairly judge all people.

Off topic somewhat: Mad World, your name made me drop what I was doing and go listen to that Tears for Fears song immediately. No joke, it did. I like that song...

I know... it's an awesome song. Personally, my favourite is Gary Jules' version, but Tears for Fears' is excellent, too.

 

[lacktheknack]

As for the hypothetical Buddhist monk, while he practiced kindness his entire life, he ignored the most-important being of all: God. After all that Jesus has done for him, he refused to accept Him as Lord and Saviour; and as a result, he deserves Hell. God is just and perfect; therefore, He must fairly judge all people.

Oh no, Heaven help you... You could probably pull this quote off on any other website...

As a Christian, all I have to say on this is "God judges the heart" and I'm not going to say whether or not God will condemn the misguided righteous... that's up to him. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes exceptions for exceptional people.

 

[Mad World]

Oh no, Heaven help you... You could probably pull this quote off on any other website...

As a Christian, all I have to say on this is "God judges the heart" and I'm not going to say whether or not God will condemn the misguided righteous... that's up to him. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes exceptions for exceptional people.

In your opinion - as a Christian - do you think that the monk would get to Heaven, even though he didn't believe that Jesus Christ was His Lord and Saviour?

 

[Irridium]

Well thats messed up. I mean yeah I'm religious but damn, thats just messed up.

I suggest going on a trip like that yourselves, try going on the same one, and see what goes on up there. Seriously, messed up.

The Jesus kids marginalise and bully the non-believers.

The coucillors (whatever they're called) also single them out and call them out on their disbelief.

So they change what they believe to fit in.

Kind of like how the internet treats most religeous people.

Makes sense I suppose.

 

[kikon9]

As for the hypothetical Buddhist monk, while he practiced kindness his entire life, he ignored the most-important being of all: God. After all that Jesus has done for him, he refused to accept Him as Lord and Saviour; and as a result, he deserves Hell. God is just and perfect; therefore, He must fairly judge all people.

Oh no, Heaven help you... You could probably pull this quote off on any other website...

As a Christian, all I have to say on this is "God judges the heart" and I'm not going to say whether or not God will condemn the misguided righteous... that's up to him. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes exceptions for exceptional people.

Exceptions for exceptional people. What about the majority of Earth's population that never got a chance?

 

[Marble Dragon]

If she's being cold and looking down on other people, it isn't a good change for her, in my opinion. I'm not religious; I think that I can make my own decisions about being a good person. I don't need a pastor to tell me what's right and what's wrong, and while I believe that God could exist, I don't feel I need him in my life. Being a Christian would just enrage me. However, for some people, religion can help guide them through all the troubles of life. My priorities are different than some people's. Personally, I have this one as a first:

1. Be good to other the other things on Earth. I don't give a shit who made them: they're other living things and you should be good to them.

I think that a truly positive religion would enforce kindness. Look at all those people saying, "Oh yeah, the Buddhist monk who has devoted his entire life to practicing kindness and bringing about peace - he deserves eternal torture because he didn't revert from the faith he was raised in to worship my god." Bullshit. If that's what God thinks, I'm not going to be his servant. People who constantly act 'holier than thou' are missing the point somewhat, in my opinion.

If she is treating others poorly, that does not mean that the change to Christianity was bad. Rather, she needs to realize that being a Christian isn't about acting better than those who are not, and also to realize that everyone deserves to be treated well.

As for the hypothetical Buddhist monk, while he practiced kindness his entire life, he ignored the most-important being of all: God. After all that Jesus has done for him, he refused to accept Him as Lord and Saviour; and as a result, he deserves Hell. God is just and perfect; therefore, He must fairly judge all people.

Off topic somewhat: Mad World, your name made me drop what I was doing and go listen to that Tears for Fears song immediately. No joke, it did. I like that song...

I know... it's an awesome song. Personally, my favourite is Gary Jules' version, but Tears for Fears' is excellent, too.

Oh my, that's enlightening! Christianity is all about treating other people well, therefore, people who don't believe the same thing as you deserve death and eternal torture.

Just kidding. Well, obviously that was sarcasm, but my retaliation toward you is the real joke. Don't take it too seriously, please: I'm not expecting it to change anyone's mind.

Oh, I have an extra thing to add that actually matters. OP, your friend probably wasn't as secure as you thought she was. Everyone has some secret fears and problems that they hide from others. I'm sure there was some time in your life when something was wrong, but you didn't want to tell anyone what it was. Religion offers something to cling to, to believe in and be a part of. If your friend found something that will help her through life's craziness, that may be a good thing. I don't think I can be the judge of that. All I can do is hope that everything turns out for the best among you.

 

[Peteron]

If shes loves God, let her. Faith doesn't do too much harm I suppose. It is guidance. I do not currently have a faith but I am spiritual I suppose. Try to get her to her old personality, but don't split her from faith.

 

[Mad World]

Oh my, that's enlightening! Christianity is all about treating other people well, therefore, people who don't believe the same thing as you deserve death and eternal torture.

Just kidding. Well, obviously that was sarcasm, but my retaliation toward you is the real joke. Don't take it too seriously, please: I'm not expecting it to change anyone's mind.

All Christians should treat others well, yes. However, that doesn't mean that everything is like in a fairy tale; people do - indeed - go to Hell. It's extremely sad and unfortunate, but also necessary.

 

[kikon9]

Oh my, that's enlightening! Christianity is all about treating other people well, therefore, people who don't believe the same thing as you deserve death and eternal torture.

Just kidding. Well, obviously that was sarcasm, but my retaliation toward you is the real joke. Don't take it too seriously, please: I'm not expecting it to change anyone's mind.

All Christians should treat others well, yes. However, that doesn't mean that everything is like in a fairy tale; people do - indeed - go to Hell. It's extremely sad and unfortunate, but also necessary.

Why exactly is it necessary?

 

[Mad World]

Why exactly is it necessary?

Good question.

Simply put: it is necessary because God must punish people who do not follow Him; it is the right thing to do. God would not be just and perfect if He did not punish those who did not believe in Him.

It is a very difficult thing to accept, but we tend to want to look at this from a human point of view; and as human beings, we are definitely not perfect. However, God looks at things from His point of view, and He is perfect.

 

[kikon9]

Why exactly is it necessary?

Good question.

Simply put: it is necessary because God must punish people who do not follow Him; it is the right thing to do. God would not be just and perfect if He did not punish those who did not believe in Him.

It is a very difficult thing to accept, but we tend to want to look at this from a human point of view; and as human beings, we are definitely not perfect. However, God looks at things from His point of view, and He is perfect.

That doesn't really make him sound just and perfect so much as just petty.

 

[lacktheknack]

Oh no, Heaven help you... You could probably pull this quote off on any other website...

As a Christian, all I have to say on this is "God judges the heart" and I'm not going to say whether or not God will condemn the misguided righteous... that's up to him. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes exceptions for exceptional people.

In your opinion - as a Christian - do you think that the monk would get to Heaven, even though he didn't believe that Jesus Christ was His Lord and Saviour?

Reread my post.

As for the hypothetical Buddhist monk, while he practiced kindness his entire life, he ignored the most-important being of all: God. After all that Jesus has done for him, he refused to accept Him as Lord and Saviour; and as a result, he deserves Hell. God is just and perfect; therefore, He must fairly judge all people.

Oh no, Heaven help you... You could probably pull this quote off on any other website...

As a Christian, all I have to say on this is "God judges the heart" and I'm not going to say whether or not God will condemn the misguided righteous... that's up to him. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes exceptions for exceptional people.

Exceptions for exceptional people. What about the majority of Earth's population that never got a chance?

People who never heard the Good News? I'd classify that as an inordinate circumstance, treated like an extraordinary circumstance.