The escapist, I need your help.

[Danzaivar]

God would not be just and perfect if He did not punish those who did not believe in Him.

What's the point of an eternal punishment though? The point of punishment is to reform and correct. Punishing eternally for something that no-one can change is just petty and sadistic.

Not to mention it totally flies in the face of any concept of forgiveness, lol.

 

[kikon9]

That doesn't really make him sound just and perfect so much as just petty.

Again, that is your human thinking. Sin must be punished, and God acts accordingly.

Yes, but god made us in his image. Therefore he must have given us a mind similar to his.

 

[Jedoro]

People change. If she's happy with who she's become, then you're being pretty selfish for trying to change her back just for yourselves. Don't worry about what happened, just try to get her to open up to you guys while still letting her be who she is.

 

[Arkhangelsk]

Get a group of people together for any amount of time and with the right manipulation you can turn anyone to pretty much anything.

I'm not sure how to best answer you without making negative comments about certain aspects of the Christian community but it sounds an awful lot like brainwashing. I'm sure you can find the documentaries online where they visit these camps and I was truely sickened. My personal feelings for Christianity aside, just the methods employed shocked me and I couldn't believe anyone could target children in such a manner.

Ultimately, if she is happy, or she believes she is happy then there is little you can do to change that. If anything, trying to get in the way will simply make her cut ties with you. You or your friends cannot reverse the conditioning which occured during that week. That may sound harsh but incredibly clever conditioning is exactly what it is.

I should point out this doesn't happen will all christians, just certain groups and it sounds like that is the kind of place she went to.

Spoiler: Jesus Camp

If you think you can undo the kind of shit seen above, then good luck to you.

That is just fucking disturbing. What I'd do would be to pass by and play Cannibal Corpse on ear exploding volume. I bet they'd like that. But seriously, there are few people I wish harm upon, but they can go die.

 

[Sir Galahad]

Okay, bear with me, this is going to sound pretty hysterical in the first few sentences but then it liberalizes...

Christianity is not fundamentally a bad thing, it has had an unfortunate history, at least the catholics do... (Anglican, btw...) It does preach values that are very easy to accept, and, as I'm sure the Christians in this debate have allowed you to come to believe, just because we do believe doesn't necessarily mean that we bad people. Now, I've said that so: The real problem, as I see it, is that the girl has become less open, and less friendly, it really doesn't matter that this girl has become Christian in a week, she could have become mad about bikes or something in a week, but if the change in her social attitude is as profound as you say, I would talk to someone more qualified about it. Maybe not a psychiatrist, though, they're bad for your self-esteem... Maybe a school nurse or a trusted adult friend.

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Find out the name of the camp and look for cases like yours. Maybe they used some sort of subliminal message or brain washing technique to increase their flock. Get them sussed and figure out a way to change her back. It'll be fun.

 

[Mad World]

What's the point of an eternal punishment though? The point of punishment is to reform and correct. Punishing eternally for something that no-one can change is just petty and sadistic.

Not to mention it totally flies in the face of any concept of forgiveness, lol.

Before being forgiven, a person needs to actually be willing to be forgiven. Those who do not accept Jesus Christ choose not to be forgiven.

Yes, but god made us in his image. Therefore he must have given us a mind similar to his.

We also sin, but that doesn't mean that God does.

We are made in His image, but that does not mean that we are the same as Him in every way.

 

[Danzaivar]

What's the point of an eternal punishment though? The point of punishment is to reform and correct. Punishing eternally for something that no-one can change is just petty and sadistic.

Not to mention it totally flies in the face of any concept of forgiveness, lol.

Before being forgiven, a person needs to actually be willing to be forgiven. Those who do not accept Jesus Christ choose not to be forgiven.

So begging for forgiveness in Hell works?

 

[micky]

anyone seen Jesus camp? that was scary, really just go and rent it at a blockbuster or something.

 

[Calico93]

Okay reading that seriously shocked me
This is why religion should not be seen as the one and only truth, devoting yourself to it and worshipping it because it "makes good decisions" is morally wrong, it just doesn't work like that in the real world.
I'm a massive atheist and reading this .. I'm utterly speechless

And I'd say talk to the parents but if they're devout religious fanatics then they're going to see it as "she's seen the error in her ways" or some other such shit

I really can't help you, sorry man your just gonna have to see what happens
Peace

 

[Mad World]

So begging for forgiveness in Hell works?

No.

 

[Theninja'skatana]

Wait wait wait.. If we're made in his image, That means God is just as flawed as any other human.

 

[Danzaivar]

So begging for forgiveness in Hell works?

No.

So...you're being punished for something that no-one can ever change, and will be punished for that eternally without any chance of setting things straight? What's the point of even punishing them then? May as well just 'destroy' their soul or whatever and be done with it.

 

[garfoldsomeoneelse]

Sounds like her Atheism was laziness, not a conviction. As a logical Atheist, there's really nothing you could say to me to make me believe in a deity; you'd have to show me proof. I'm willing to bet that if that indoctrination camp had proof, they'd damn well be beating everyone over the head with it, so it sounds like she just called herself an Atheist as an "I don't care" until somebody sold her their religion.

Simple as.

 

[Quaxar]

I'm sorry to say this, but there is only one logical explanation:

http://suvudu.com/files/suvudumedia/body%20snatchers.jpg

Watch out for other strange behaviour and most importantly don't fall asleep!

 

[BlumiereBleck]

Shes happy let her live her life don't try to control her.

 

[Yureina]

That seems a little fast for brainwashing, but never underestimate those people. That's what they do for a living after all. I'd talk to your friend and try to get her to tell you as to just why she acquired this "new view" of the world.

 

[DocBalance]

Now, I don't post here often. But this is a serious problem and I need an outside opinion on the matter.

Now, a friend of mine up until about a week or so was an atheist who disliked the idea of an omnipotent being watching over her and hated going to church with her family. She then went on a weeks holiday, to a camp in the north. I later discovered this was a christian camp. When she returned she was acting peculiar, different from usual. To me, she seemed closed off and less loving. At first I brushed it off as nothing.

But now she is heavily religious, she loves going to church, claims to feel the joy that God brings to her and that God guides her path and helps makes her decisions. Also, she now proclaims that God is her one and true love, above all. I was concerned with this drastic change on her views and have gathered up a group of people who feel the same way about her. We have all sworn to do what it takes to find out what has happened. Now, that may seem a tad drastic to all of you. But, she has changed massively; we wouldn't do this if it wasn't as bad as it is.

Now, the escapist. What do you think of this situation? Do you have any suggestions on how we should proceed?

I have some quotes, from Msn and Facebook; which represent how 'devoted' she is to this religion now, and before she left.
Before the camping trip:
"i dont get along with my parents, and i dont believe in "god" im also being forced to go camping on the 26th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - :'("
"thn today forced go church!!!!!!!! omg HATE HATE HATE- but now on computer so im happy"

After:
"************* September 5 at 8:37pm
I'm not scared of death at all, and i won't let you take God away form me cos you can't cos he'll always be there for me! And God helps me to make decisions and guides my path, x"
"church is goood, strangly enough."

I'd like to point out, that I'm not against christians or members of any religion. But she was only gone for one week and it is like she has changed completely. So I'm concerned and asking for help.

Sounds like growing a brain to me. Seriously, looking at the difference of the quotes? Hate is a pretty strong word. Do you even understand what that word means? What it implies? Hate, when used properly, means that you absolutely despise something to the point of where the entirety of your existence is wrapped around destroying it. Most people don't seem to get that, and throw it around freely, when all that does is cheapen the word, and cheapen themselves.

Before you dismiss a religion, perhaps you should understand what it's about: "changing completely" is exactly what becoming a Christian is. Her posts sound a lot happier now, from what you've given us to compare with. A lot less bitter, too. I'm going to take from the tone of the second comment that you probably questioned her on her new-found religion and it's merits, correct? Questioning the new basis for someone's life is not the best way to get a positive response, friend.

Also, am I the only one noticing the irony of someone who doesn't believe in God saying "omg"? Swearing by something you don't believe in=Cruise control for cool, children!

Edit: And to all the people calling "brain-washing"...seriously? That's what you are going with? Do you know how hard it is to actually brain-wash someone? I've met "Brain-washed" Christians before, and they are sad, sad people. When it happens, it's an atrocity. But they don't talk like this, not at all. They are much more aggressive in their responses, and they wouldn't say something like "church is strangely good". When you brain-wash somebody, they will proclaim it's greatness to the frigging hilltops, and they are not subtle in the slightest. Even that doesn't necessarily mean brainwashing, but you have to be both incredibly aggressive and incapable of any thought that has not been given to them by another. I mean, good grief people, if this was the other way around of a Christian converting to an Atheist, how many of you would cry brainwashing? Honestly now, let's be rationale and not let our own biases cloud up the situation any more than it needs to be.

 

[Mad World]

What's the point of an eternal punishment though? The point of punishment is to reform and correct. Punishing eternally for something that no-one can change is just petty and sadistic.

Not to mention it totally flies in the face of any concept of forgiveness, lol.

Again, you think that it's petty and sadistic, but that doesn't make it so.

You can avoid Hell. Ask Jesus into your heart and follow Him. If you do that, you will go to Heaven.

Wait wait wait.. If we're made in his image, That means God is just as flawed as any other human.

Being made in His image doesn't mean that we are identical to Him. It means that we have freewill and that we were created to be perfect.

 

[Z(ombie)fan]

holy shit OP, i had the EXACT same thing happen to a friend of mine. he was an atheist and loved bashing christians (he spent a number of hours making fun of me because he thought i was a christian). he went to some camp along with another friend of mine, and now he is a young-earth creationist talking about the "lost souls" and literally acting in a holier-than-thou manner. funny thing is, the guy he went with is still perfectly alright.

He switched to a christian high school because he didn't want to be around so many "lost souls", and during a debate we had on facebook he said in response to me saying, "what the fuck happened to you" (we used to cuss like that all the time together), "something that obviously hasn't happened to you!". he also had the nerve to say that christianity has always existed (what about hinduism or judaism?). it was really strange.

good luck OP.

heh. lost souls. that, ironically, is my definition of the common churchgoer.