The Escapist users and Rape

[Azure-Supernova]

Then the most important issue doesn't deal with the issue of rape or consent, but rather: if alcohol is so inhibiting that it prevents people from making wilful decisions, why isn't it policed more stringently?

I like a drink as much as the next man, a pint or two of local ale on my onc in a blue moon trip to the pub. But if alcohol is so inhibiting in the eyes of the law that it causes two intoxicated individuals to unwittingly rape each other, why is it so readily available?

Because it's heavily ingrained in virtually all of the world's cultures and is an extremely profitable business on an international level?

I'm not quite sure how this is a question...

Oh I get that, don't worry. My point was that the substance is so readily available and is policed rather lightly, yet at the same time delcares that people under the influence of alcohol can't make wilfull decisions. It was rhetorical because the answers are blatantly obvious as you pointed out.

 

[MassiveGeek]

Rape is having sex with a person against their will, sometimes using means like force to do it as well. Correct?

Then I'd have to say that if you made the concious decision to get so pissed that you'd give consent to a stranger, that is not rape, because frankly, you've given consent.

That doesn't make any sense. You consented to get drunk (and that's stupid) but you did not consent to anything else. Once you are drunk I can take all your money too then right, since you consented? Beat you up? Slash your throat? What, you consented!

Read the post properly before throwing around accusations.

I said that if you're so pissed that you would give consent to a stranger that's on you, because it is. I didn't say being drunk automatically gave consent, or at least, that's not what I fucking meant and most people with half a brain would understand that no one would agree that being drunk automatically means you can use the person as much as you want.

Fucking hell.

 

[veloper]

Then the most important issue doesn't deal with the issue of rape or consent, but rather: if alcohol is so inhibiting that it prevents people from making wilful decisions, why isn't it policed more stringently?

I like a drink as much as the next man, a pint or two of local ale on my onc in a blue moon trip to the pub. But if alcohol is so inhibiting in the eyes of the law that it causes two intoxicated individuals to unwittingly rape each other, why is it so readily available?

Because it's heavily ingrained in virtually all of the world's cultures and is an extremely profitable business on an international level?

I'm not quite sure how this is a question...

Oh I get that, don't worry. My point was that the substance is so readily available and is policed rather lightly, yet at the same time delcares that people under the influence of alcohol can't make wilfull decisions. It was rhetorical because the answers are blatantly obvious as you pointed out.

Getting drunk is fine.
It's not the mind altering experience some of the church-goers here make it out to be. If you can talk properly, you can think properly.

You shouldn't drink and drive, but partying and drinking belong together.
For insiders, if you didn't get drunk at night, you never left the house.

 

[Montezuma's Lawyer]

So basically what you're saying is intoxicated people are immune from all responsibility because their mental state is impaired.

OH OK.

Sure lets just give them the freedom to drive and operate heavy machinery and kill a few dozen people in the process, because they can't make sound judgements.

Same with sex. Drunk person agrees to consensual sex, but WOOPSIES THEY'RE DRUNK, lets make everyone else responsible and give the alcoholics a free ride to do whatever they want, maybe convict a few innocent people of rape.


SOUNDS GREAT CHIEF LET ME LIVE IN YOUR WORLD.

Do us a favor, read the fucking post next time, that is 100% the opposite of what he said.

 

[Azure-Supernova]

Getting drunk is fine.
It's not the mind altering experience some of the church-goers here make it out to be. If you can talk properly, you can think properly.

You shouldn't drink and drive, but partying and drinking belong together.
For insiders, if you didn't get drunk at night, you never left the house.

That's kind of my point. Unless you set out on an empty stomach with the intent of losing yourself, chances are you're quite capable of making a decision, you just might be a bit more broad with your options. However for law to stipulate that intoxication removes the right to make wilfull decisions, well surely that's something conceded before you're even drunk right?

 

[Olrod]

If the guy is drunk at the time, does that mean he can accuse her of rape too?

 

[veloper]

Getting drunk is fine.
It's not the mind altering experience some of the church-goers here make it out to be. If you can talk properly, you can think properly.

You shouldn't drink and drive, but partying and drinking belong together.
For insiders, if you didn't get drunk at night, you never left the house.

That's kind of my point. Unless you set out on an empty stomach with the intent of losing yourself, chances are you're quite capable of making a decision, you just might be a bit more broad with your options. However for law to stipulate that intoxication removes the right to make wilfull decisions, well surely that's something conceded before you're even drunk right?

Exactly. Now if only the self-righteous judges here would pick up on this and get some life experience themselves.

 

[Rhaff]

Okay, have I missed some high profile news story about drinking and rape, since all these threads about rape and drinking are abundant on the forum lately?

 

[demonfridge]

So according to the OP, if a drunk woman consents to sex with a drunken man, and in the morning she regrets it. Then the man is a rapist?

Sounds like classic "all straight men are rapists" crap.

Of course nobody sees it as as rape if a man were to regret drunken sex in the morning. Because all men are evil amoral rapists and they would never regret sex. Fucking bigots.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Okay, have I missed some high profile news story about drinking and rape, since all these threads about rape and drinking are abundant on the forum lately?

Someone posted a link to a feminist site complaining about how a campaign intended to reduce rape by telling girls not to get drunk was created. Snowballed from there.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.334108-So-according-to-some-feminists-this-anti-rape-ad-campaign-is-sexist?page=1

 

[tobi the good boy]

No means no; no matter if you're sober, drunk, high, whatever.

Agreed! But then again, yes means yes.

I'm pretty sure that sums up the whole topic and yet, no one is going to stop going on about it, they'll just keep constantly repeating posts and half arsed arguments against well thought out ones.

Anyone want to talk about puppies or something?

 

[Rhaff]

Okay, have I missed some high profile news story about drinking and rape, since all these threads about rape and drinking are abundant on the forum lately?

Someone posted a link to a feminist site complaining about how a campaign intended to reduce rape by telling girls not to get drunk was created. Snowballed from there.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.334108-So-according-to-some-feminists-this-anti-rape-ad-campaign-is-sexist?page=1

I see. This seems completely retarded, so I think im just gonna steer clear of this discussion

 

[Batou667]

You can't consent to anything when drunk.

Yes you can.

Being drunk isn't some psychedelic, hallucinogenic drug trip. Nor is it (unless you've been drinking to the point of literally poisoning yourself) a one-way trip to comatose inertness.

Being drunk might impair your ability to make sensible decisions, but you can still make decisions, and you should accept responsibility for them. If you're legally old enough to drink, then you're liable for your actions, same as any adult.

[edit] If having sex with a drunk person is rape, is taking their money theft?

Because in that case, the last nightclub I went to stole my money. So did the guy in the kebab van afterwards. I was drunk at the time and I now regret it, so I can prosecute them and get my money back, right?

 

[Trippy Turtle]

I agree with the don't have sex with drunk people but only because you risk them crying rape when it never happened.
Would I be arrested for stealing your car if you let me drive you home because you were drunk?

 

[madster11]

So... if i pick up an ugly Chick while im drunk and regret it the next day... that would be rape as well?
Seems to work the same way nobody was forced to have sex but obviously i wouldnt have done it if i was sober... so can anyone of you explain to me whats the difference?

Men can't be raped, obviously, and we're not allowed to complain when we do stupid shit while drunk like women can.

 

[The Funslinger]

-Drunk people are accountable for their actions
-If someone consented while intoxicated that means they are willful, and, if they didn't mean it, then they shouldn't have gotten drunk
-If both parties are drunk then it can't be rape because neither had a sound mental state, so no one can be blamed

1. Yes, drunk people are accountable. Get pissed and shoot someone in the face. "I was drunk" will not get you off.
2. I will assume that first one is about the anti-rape ad. In which case, we were saying "If you get drunk, you make yourself more vulnerable to having your drink spiked." not "If you get drunk, it's your fault if you have your drink spiked."
3. They gave consent. Unless the other person has been with them all night, they might not know how drunk they are. If someone is staggering about, but her friend says she has an inner ear problem, how do you know whether or not she's drunk out her tits? Or maybe some other girl can maintain control of her body when she's drunk. Again, how do you know? You pick one of these girls and find out she was drunk when she calls you a rapist.

My problem is is that if I get drunk on wine I tend to jump on the nearest male thing in the vicinity, I can hardly blame them for that in the morning can I. xD

I do try not to drink wine...but it's so tasty. :<

there's this too.
i mean, if i met her and gave her a load of wine i would consider myself taking advantage of her.
if it was her that did it, nope.

Exactly. When you go to a party, you have the right to assume (although it may be unrealistic to assume it, but bear with me) that people are at least going to be semi-responsible and know their own limits. If they're drunk, they're still responsible for their own actions. As for actively getting someone drunk to make them lower their inhibitions for you is morally reprehensible (and I'm too much of a gentleman to ever consider doing it) but not illegal.

In any case, reaching the point of inebriation where you could even be close to saying your desires would be totally warped to the point where your judgement didn't factor at least a little (which would still be a straw man argument at best) would take a fair bit of time. You'd notice if someone happened to be giving you a lot of drinks. If you don't want to wake up with him and fear that you would do so under influence, you refuse those drinks. Don't go mooching because you can and then refuse to shoulder the consequences.

Oh, and hey there, Will. I'm wearing my trilby right now!

 

[MassiveGeek]

Rape is having sex with a person against their will, sometimes using means like force to do it as well. Correct?

Then I'd have to say that if you made the concious decision to get so pissed that you'd give consent to a stranger, that is not rape, because frankly, you've given consent.

That doesn't make any sense. You consented to get drunk (and that's stupid) but you did not consent to anything else. Once you are drunk I can take all your money too then right, since you consented? Beat you up? Slash your throat? What, you consented!

Read the post properly before throwing around accusations.

I said that if you're so pissed that you would give consent to a stranger that's on you, because it is. I didn't say being drunk automatically gave consent, or at least, that's not what I fucking meant and most people with half a brain would understand that no one would agree that being drunk automatically means you can use the person as much as you want.

Fucking hell.

Read what I said. You can't consent to anything when drunk. All that person did was consent to get drunk, they didn't and couldn't consent to anything else. In a good part of the world, and morally as well in my view, you are describing rape.

Of course you fucking can. You don't lose the ability to speak when you're drunk - if a drunk chick came onto a drunk guy or vice versa, and propositioned them for sex, if they then said yes, they have given their consent. It's that simple.
We can't fucking cosset every idiot out there, if you got drunk and said yes to having sex with someone and you did, then that's all there is to it. If you, or both people regret it afterwards, then boo-fucking-hoo, it happened. Tough. Deal with it.

And fucking hell, not everyone is a decent person, and if you put yourself in a very exploitable position(like getting pissed like a ************) then you have indeed put yourself in a very exploitable position and that is something you can be, and should be, held accountable for. You can't just fucking assume everyone will think rationally(especially not if everyone's a drunk ************) and always consider the consequences. It would be amazing if that was what happened, but it's not.

 

[Darkmantle]

I said it before, I'll say it again, under your definition, I guess mutual rape happens everyday. can u imagine that case in court? both parties suing the other for rape lol.
Your definition would never hold up in a court of law, sorry, but this is modern society.

 

[Phoenix Arrow]

Eh. It's all about context really, isn't it? I've fooled around with people who were drunk, but then they were at partys where I was drunk too. So what does that mean? Did we rape each other?

When it comes down to it, if when you drink so much you agree to have sex with people you wouldn't normally have sex with, maybe you shouldn't be drinking that much? Alcohol, as far as I'm concerned, is about knowing your limits and being responsible. You have 1 or 2 drinks, you're having sex with people you're going to be ok with having sex with, if that makes sense. Drink a little more than that, you still know what you're doing when it comes down to it. You might regret, but is it enough to brand the other person a rapist? That's a very big word to put on a mistake a lot of people make once in their lives.

Having said that, there is a point when you've drunk so much you don't know what the fuck you're doing. I've had people like that force their tongue down my throat, grab me in some place and start undressing me. Even when I've been drunk too, you know that's not what should be happening. I actually know someone who's currently serving jail time for doing some weird shit with a drunk girl. Was he guilty? Abso-fucking-lutely. She's still a moron for getting that drunk in the first place, but he's worse.