The Ethics of "Project Harpoon"

[Queen Michael]

It's like the difference between telling somebody she's an ugly cow and telling your friend, in private, that this fat girl you saw was ugly.

More like the difference between telling somebody she's an ugly cow and plastering a doctored, embarrassing photograph along highways and bus stops to encourage everyone to publicly mock the person from a safe distance.

Gotta admit, your phrasing is better than mine was. =)

 

[Sigmund Av Volsung]

"if you don't want your photos edited, don't post your photos on the internet"

I think I'm gonna print that, frame it and hang it up on my wall.

I bet these folks are completely fine with the NSA and GCHQ looking up their photos as well? I mean, it's technically also on the internet, right? Like say, your GPS data, your facebook profile, your search history, your friends and families, your hopes, your dreams, your favourite movies, your favourite music, etc. etc.

Suffice to say I automatically think that the invasion of privacy is bad across the board. I don't care for what cause or for what intent, it is illegal and makes people complicit in accepting that their privacy is like their bloody phone when they get mugged for it.

 

[ThreeName]

To begin with, copyright is innate. So anything a person makes is copyrighted by default.
Secondly, the Terms of Service for Facebook (and pretty much any similar site) don't negate your ownership. That is complete and utter paranoid and or delusional nonsense.

This is incorrect. A number of years ago my friends were involved in a "scandal" (to use the term loosely), and the national media used photos taken from their Facebook and put them on the front page. They were unable to legally act upon this despite A) Having taken the photos themselves and B) Being the subjects of the photos.

Photos publicly put on Facebook are public property.

 

[Alleged_Alec]

Did "Project Harpoon" have the right to do what they did? Was it a valid response to fat-positive feminist campaigns?

Yes to the first, and no to the second (not sure how strong the connection between fat-positive and feminism is anyway).

I have the right, as a response anything anyone says about anything, to loudly declare that I'm an annoying tosser. It's not a useful thing for me to do, and I shouldn't be surprised if people think I'm an annoying tosser, however.

It's 4chan being stereotypically 4chan, I don't think we need spend too much time wondering if this is a good way to behave.

I agree with all of that, especially the 4Chan bit. Reddit, 8Chan, and a lot of places don't deserve their reputation (only some parts do), but 4Chan? Fuck 4Chan.

Apparently you've never been to 4chan then. Most of it is pretty okay.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Should I feel bad that I understood the basic gist of what this is about by just the name of the topic alone? lol



But yes, fat people are people, it's not their fault that those ugly as hell photoshops were made. Going after random people who did nothing wrong is not smart.

 

[Dizchu]

Apparently you've never been to 4chan then. Most of it is pretty okay.

Everything on 4chan can be found elsewhere, with fewer insufferable people. Sure. /b/ is the worst board where all the edgy 12 year olds go to spout the nonsense their parents won't allow them to say, but that attitude is pretty ubiquitous across the whole site.

"if you don't want your photos edited, don't post your photos on the internet"

I think I'm gonna print that, frame it and hang it up on my wall.

I bet these folks are completely fine with the NSA and GCHQ looking up their photos as well? I mean, it's technically also on the internet, right? Like say, your GPS data, your facebook profile, your search history, your friends and families, your hopes, your dreams, your favourite movies, your favourite music, etc. etc.

To be honest it's easy for these guys to say things like that because they use anime girls as avatars wherever they go, even on Facebook. This "that's how the internet works, get over it" attitude probably wouldn't apply if their private photos were altered and spread around for ridicule, or if photos of their family members were.

I mean right now, I can find a random person on Facebook, stalk them, send them harassment... and because they chose to use Facebook, that makes it okay?

They shot themselves in the foot when they decided to take random people's pictures off of social media in "response" to something that was nothing like the thing they're doing. Fictional characters aren't the same as real random people on the Internet, so it's clear that excuse is just a bullshit excuse to shame, for some bizarre but sadly unsurprising reason, women. There appeared to be a small handful of guys there, but the vast majority seems to women from what I've seen.

There's several reasons why they've primarily targeted women. First of all, the original set of images focussed exclusively on women. Secondly, fat-acceptance it commonly regarded as a feminist movement, the implication being that fat women are less likely to be accepted than fat men. Recently there's been a little bit of a "dad bod" appreciation, but it commonly applies to men that once fit the "ideal" and have "let themselves go a bit" after settling down to raise kids.

But the real reason why I think they're targeting women in particular? I am fairly sure that these guys aren't exactly "in shape" themselves. As much as they'd like you to believe that they frequent the gym and eat their veggies, let's not kid ourselves. 4chan is a community of self-loathing, comprised mostly of socially inept males. When they see overweight women comfortable with their size, they'd rather tear them down than accept that their own perceptions of the real world are delusional.

 

[PainInTheAssInternet]

There's nothing ethical about it. It's 4chan. Try to read 4chan with anything but negative implications.

Also, since I personally know someone who has had their privacy violated, I can attest that "simply don't let unpleasant photos exist" is the only safeguard against the likes of 4channers. It sucks even harder because they like that power.

 

[Kathinka]

Holy crap, this is brilliant.

If it started out as trolling or not, I actually think this is a good thing.
Showing people how they could look if they achieved realistic goals? That's gotta be motivating.

Plus the entertainment value. I haven't seen this much salt on Facebook in years.

 

[Dizchu]

"Original set"? The first ones they made or the fictional characters one?

The "this is what female video game characters would look like with average proportions" one. Apart from that, the focus on "unrealistic depictions" is primarily on female characters. Whether or not you or I believe that they had valid points to make, it's no wonder that the response would target women. I have a feeling they threw in a few men just so they have something to point at to "prove" they're not misogynists.

Showing people how they could look if they achieved realistic goals? That's gotta be motivating.

On the contrary, ridicule is likely to demotivate weight loss than promote it. The way to motivate people to lose weight is with encouragement. If someone tried to quit smoking, would you berate them for smoking in the first place or congratulate them for their progress in kicking the habit?

 

[Kathinka]

Showing people how they could look if they achieved realistic goals? That's gotta be motivating.

On the contrary, ridicule is likely to demotivate weight loss than promote it. The way to motivate people to lose weight is with encouragement. If someone tried to quit smoking, would you berate them for smoking in the first place or congratulate them for their progress in kicking the habit?

I don't see anyone being ridiculed. Hell, on the FB page and on their subreddit people are lining up REQUESTING to be shopped for these exact reasons.

As a matter of fact, many coaches that get paid heaps of money to help their clients to be motivated to attain their goals employ this EXACT strategy: Do away with negative thoughts and doubts ("Why am I so fat?") and instead formulate a positive, enthusiastic goal. ("I want an awesome attractive body with a fit physique and visible muscle definition!")
This is precisely this.
All this butthurt is just the result of the current trend to label stating anything but cuddly feel-good hugbox "everyone is perfect <3" phrases as "offensive", "shaming" or "discrimination."

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

I don't see anyone being ridiculed. Hell, on the FB page and on their subreddit people are lining up REQUESTING to be shopped for these exact reasons.

As a matter of fact, many coaches that get paid heaps of money to help their clients to be motivated to attain their goals employ this EXACT strategy: Do away with negative thoughts and doubts ("Why am I so fat?") and instead formulate a positive, enthusiastic goal. ("I want an awesome attractive body with a fit physique and visible muscle definition!")
This is precisely this.
All this butthurt is just the result of the current trend to label stating anything but cuddly feel-good hugbox "everyone is perfect <3" phrases as "offensive", "shaming" or "discrimination."

And all power to the people who actually want to be photoshopped. The problem is that they're taking people who don't, often people who are expressively comfortable with how they look, "fixing" their appearance for them, and implying that they look like whales via the name. The OP herself mentioned she had a friend who felt humiliated by it, but hell, you don't think it's a big deal so she should probably get over it.

EDIT:

Uh, yeah, this project is clearly all about positivity.

Spoiler

Behold another one of the "whales" targeted by this movement

Spoiler

She is pretty fit, and it's clear that there's no way that she could ever become the photo-shopped version they made of her. This is actually, just the way that her body is shaped. I coached a girl who climbed the hardest in my entire team (she wasn't the strongest, but she tried way harder than everyone else), and she was still bigger than this woman. This is seriously beyond ridiculous.

The crazy thing is that the people running this seem to think that they're dealing a blow against the fat acceptance movement, as opposed to giving people something to point at to justify it.

EDIT 2:

Megan Trainor too?

Spoiler

Okay, it's clear this isn't targeting dangerously overweight women, it's targeting women who aren't super-model skinny and are okay with it.

 

[Dizchu]

Their comparison doesn't make sense though, so that doesn't follow. It's more likely they just wanted a reason to ***** about women who were fat and used that video game thing as a scapegoat.

Absolutely the comparison makes no sense, their "mission statement" was such an insincere crock of shit. Either they sincerely believed that "all fat women everywhere" were on board with making thin female characters chubby (yeah, okay) or, as you said, they wanted a cheap excuse to harass people for the cheeky banter. Which means they're either extremely insecure, complete assholes, or both.

I don't see anyone being ridiculed. Hell, on the FB page and on their subreddit people are lining up REQUESTING to be shopped for these exact reasons.

If so many people lined up, why did they feel the need to take people's photos without consent? Why did they feel the need to take photos from people's Tumblr blogs and Facebook pages, manipulate them and distribute them for all to see?

It is obvious that their intention was mockery and trolling. They were called Project Harpoon. They are not hiding this one bit. Their attempts to convince people that they're "doing the right thing" are done with such frivolity and lack of responsibility that the only conclusions I can come to are that they are either cruel or immensely idiotic.

All this butthurt is just the result of the current trend to label stating anything but cuddly feel-good hugbox "everyone is perfect <3" phrases as "offensive", "shaming" or "discrimination."

No. This has nothing to do with fat acceptance or hugboxes, not at its core anyhow. I don't care if they want to shame fat celebrities or if they want to rail against fat-positive feminists. They can have their circlejerk. Actually, I encourage them to have their circlejerk. But when you involve members of the public, that crosses a line.

Would it be okay for me to take the private photos of black people and photoshop them to look white? What if it was a "statement" against clickbait articles that insisted that Disney princesses are too white or that there aren't enough non-white video game characters? That'd be a bullshit thing to do and you know it.

If fat people want to be photoshopped to look thin, that's great. Go for it. But if you're stalking people's pages, intended for small groups of friends, take their photos and manipulate them to "make a point"? I'm sorry, that's fucked up. They're on par with Indian men that stalk white girls and ask for photos of their genitalia.

 

[Sleepy Sol]

What board(s) was this started (or continued) on?

Because it sounds pretty goddamn stupid. And horribly dickish.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

What board(s) was this started (or continued) on?

Because it sounds pretty goddamn stupid. And horribly dickish.

/b/, the source of 4chan's bad ideas.

OT: Excitable people are excitable. Also water is wet and the sun is hot.

 

[Sleepy Sol]

/b/, the source of 4cahn's bad ideas.

That explains just about everything I needed to know, then.

I still don't get what's going on with attributing /b/'s antics to the entirety of 4chan.

 

[Ambitiousmould]

4chan does something shitty. In other news, the sky remains blue (or rather grey, here in dreary old England).

4chan arses about with the utmost intent of winding people up. Discussing the ethics of anything they do is a bit like discussing whether or not sharks really need all those teeth. The fact is they do have all those teeth, so best just to ignore them and you won't get shredded into people mince and shat out into the ocean.

 

[VanQ]

You know, I'm surprised people still haven't learned not to feed the trolls. The amount of outlets reporting on this and the amount of people posting butthurt comments on the facebook page before it was deleted does nothing but fuel the flames. A wise man once said:

"Telling somebody who is trying to offend you that they are offending you, is a job well done to the person trying to offend you."

It's especially bad when every internet site I can think of besides 4chan itself has a block/ignore function. If you don't like it then filter it out and don't give it attention. I can tell you this from experience because I used to take part in a lot of this shit before I got bored of 4chan. Habbo raids/chanology/when /a/ got Erio on national TV/etc. I can tell you now it wouldn't have been half as fun if it weren't for peoples' reactions.

Don't feed the fuckin' trolls. Get it through your thick skulls already. Oh what am I kidding, no one's gonna listen to me anyway.

 

[Kathinka]

snip

Oh no doubt it started as trolling. What I'm saying is that something good actually might come of it. People are just getting salty because their hugbox is getting rocked. If a celebrity or god knows who puts a picture of themselves online for everyone to see and use, ridiculous photoshops of all manner are part of the deal. That includes unwanted "fixes" of their looks. Just because one is comfortable with some aspect of themselves does not mean that everybody has to be.

Of course it's all a matter of perspective and your mileage may vary. That picture of the woman in the black swimsuit you linked for example. You say "fit", I'd say "obese". Not morbidly, and not a "fat whale" by any stretch, but "fit" isn't what I'd say, and losing a bit of weight would certainly not hurt her health, aside from making her more conventionally attractive to most. Doesn't mean she should feel terrible about how she is now.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

Oh no doubt it started as trolling. What I'm saying is that something good actually might come of it. People are just getting salty because their hugbox is getting rocked. If a celebrity or god knows who puts a picture of themselves online for everyone to see and use, ridiculous photoshops of all manner are part of the deal. That includes unwanted "fixes" of their looks. Just because one is comfortable with some aspect of themselves does not mean that everybody has to be.

I seriously doubt any good will come out of it. It's born out of remarkably bad faith.

How many of these photos were actually put up by them though? Out of all of the pictures of me on the internet, most of them are not posted by me on my facebook. If someone wanted to shame me for being fat (which they wouldn't because I'm neither a woman nor overweight) I couldn't have done a thing to prevent it. Besides possibly demand that everyone with pictures of me takes them down.

Also, the amount of arrogance it requires for someone to take someone's appearance and say "This is how you need to look for me to feel comfortable" is astounding.

Of course it's all a matter of perspective and your mileage may vary. That picture of the woman in the black swimsuit you linked for example. You say "fit", I'd say "obese". Not morbidly, and not a "fat whale" by any stretch, but "fit" isn't what I'd say, and losing a bit of weight would certainly not hurt her health, aside from making her more conventionally attractive to most. Doesn't mean she should feel terrible about how she is now.

Probably not the paragon of fitness, but she looks like someone who requires a decent amount of physical activity to maintain her appearance. Someone whose weight is not going to compromise their health. The problem is that she'd never be able to achieve the fixed photoshop version of her appearance just because of the way her skeletal structure is set. Actually, a lot of these photos are taking people to unhealthy low levels of body fat. This isn't about helping people with health, or self esteem, it's about fixing people who you think look gross. (General you, not you specifically).

The fact that they're targeting healthy people who are fine with the way they look just makes it all the more blatant.

 

[Kathinka]

snip

I don't see any photoshopped version in your post. I would be curious about it, but I seriously can't find it. Feeling dumb now. D: