The Ethics of "Project Harpoon"

[JustAnotherAardvark]

If they took pictures of models and altered them that would be one thing

I don't see why. Sure, people do it all the time, but I don't see why this is different. If anything, someone who's a model would have a stronger reason to be upset, as it's their livelihood.

but taking the pictures of random people and altering them is just a huge dick move to me.

I wasn't disagreeing or justifying the behavior with a 'it will just happen anyways' argument, just sharing how shocked (and disappointed) I was to find lots of pics of me online, unbeknownst to me (but knownst to someone).

I don't see it as harassment but I do consider it a shitty thing to do.

Yarp.

 

[Smooth Operator]

There are privacy concerns for sure, and I absolutely condone you kick the shit out of anyone who puts your pictures on public display of a global scale.
Oh you did that? Well then you just threw away about 90% of those privacy rights.

Making a mockery of these people and using their likeness without permission however is on the edge of legality, depending on the region you could very well have a solid case for legal prosecution. So no it isn't right, you can do it but your ass can also end up paying for it.

 

[spartan231490]

If you post an image to the internet voluntarily, you have no right to cry about privacy.

As for "project harpoon" it sounds funny as fuck and I wish I'd seen it before the pages got tore down, but I'm not sure what, if anything, they actually expected to accomplish.

And if you let your name or any personal details get on the internet, you have no right to cry when people use that information to get your phone number, address, email and dox you. It's great that you think that mocking people for being fat is hilarious though.

nice hyperbole, but there's a difference between what you share on the open internet and what you put in a protected server. Yeah, if people are putting their SSN on facebook they don't get to complain about identity theft either. Also, I'm allowed to mock people for being fat, I am fat. From this point of supreme authority, I can say with absolute confidence it is funny.

 

[Olas]

I think if you can feel your ribs, but not see them, you're in the healthy body range regardless of objective size. Though don't quote me on that.

A 400 lb person can still feel their ribs. I think you've pulled this metric out of literally nowhere.

I pulled it out of common sense and personal experience, hence "don't quote me on that". I definitely can't feel my ribs right now, and I don't weigh anywhere close to 400 pounds, so I have trouble believing this unless the person in question is some sort of giant.

Edit: I'm also 6'3" so I doubt my height explains it either.

 

[Lightknight]

I think if you can feel your ribs, but not see them, you're in the healthy body range regardless of objective size. Though don't quote me on that.

A 400 lb person can still feel their ribs. I think you've pulled this metric out of literally nowhere.

I pulled it out of common sense and personal experience, hence "don't quote me on that". I definitely can't feel my ribs right now, and I don't weigh anywhere close to 400 pounds, so I have trouble believing this unless the person in question is some sort of giant.

My family is very naturally muscular. I mean, my forearm muscle is so massive when I flex it that I'm frequently asked to show it off at group events. Not even joking and aside from wrestling in school I've never particularly worked it out other than generic weight lifting in exercise.

Anyways, throw in our natural musculature with bad eating habits and you get the members of our family that are both very muscular and obese. Ta da.

Can still feel their ribs.

 

[Fallow]

If you post an image to the internet voluntarily, you have no right to cry about privacy.

As for "project harpoon" it sounds funny as fuck and I wish I'd seen it before the pages got tore down, but I'm not sure what, if anything, they actually expected to accomplish.

You can still find it on /b/.

for OP:

They put their images on the internet, that's all there is to it. If you don't want your images seen or used, don't put them on the internet.

Second, victim blaming?
You always have the right to not be assaulted. Drinking doesn't change that. There is no right to put your stuff in the public domain and demand noone use it. There is no Facebook law that lets you put your stuff on there 'because everyone else is doing it' and be exempt from the availability of the stuff you put on there. (Also, there is no right to not be offended, especially when you seek out the offending material.)

If you don't want people to look at or use your stuff, don't put it on the internet.

Also, if you check /b/ it's pretty plainly stated that Project Harpoon is purely for poops and giggles. It's a douche move, but not any worse than what the fativists are doing when they widen normal/attractive people. The only problem I see is that non-extremists got targeted.

 

[Jux]

As for my opinion on this beyond the very questionable legality, I find the project to be mean spirited and the kind of behavior one might expect from a middle school bully. Yea, being overweight carries health risks (which everyone knows at this point). So does drug use, drinking, smoking, eating disorders that make one underweight, and depression. What is it specifically about being on the heavier side makes one a socially acceptable target for ridicule? And let's not pretend this is about doing a public service and trying to help people, fuck that noise. 4chan is a boil on the taint of the internet.

One can still be body positive and work towards healthier living at the same time, the two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Tsaba]

to be put it in simpler terms, would you pose naked in your window? Not any window mind you, but, the second floor window on the side of your house. Is it private? Sure.... Can someone see you doing this and take pictures? Why yes they can.

That's also illegal btw in most places. Here's a general guideline for photography rules.

http://www.bypeople.com/photographers-rights-and-release-forms/

who said anything about legal?

EDIT:

My point is, you should plan for what can go wrong, will go wrong. Most people will pity you when life fails you. However, you brought it to some degree on yourself.

 

[Jux]

to be put it in simpler terms, would you pose naked in your window? Not any window mind you, but, the second floor window on the side of your house. Is it private? Sure.... Can someone see you doing this and take pictures? Why yes they can.

That's also illegal btw in most places. Here's a general guideline for photography rules.

http://www.bypeople.com/photographers-rights-and-release-forms/

who said anything about legal?

EDIT:
My point is, you should plan for what can go wrong, will go wrong. Most people will pity you when life fails you. However, you brought it to some degree on yourself.

So the guy that got hit walking across the street brought it on himself because a car sped through a red light? I mean sure, running red lights is illegal and everything, but he kinda had it coming you know? Not planning for that car speeding through the light and just deciding not to walk in the first place.

This is about as victim blamey as you can get.

No one is Batman, you can't plan for every unlikely contingency, and there is no reasonable expectation that fat people should just keep their pictures off the internet if they don't want to be made fun of for their weight. oy...

edit: judging by a lot of responses in this thread, pity for 'when life fails you' doesn't seem to extend to the overweight.

 

[Lightknight]

One real disappointing event was the response to it. In responding vehemently against photos of them being "fatted up" via photoshop the groups pushing for more fat-favorable depictions have shown a double standard. Had they just laughed these people off as being silly and even thanking them for the alternate versions of themselves, this would have all festered on the harpooner's side. But, unless I'm missing something else that happened this just shows people preaching something they don't really believe in. Apparently being fat or even merely being depicted as such is offensive to them.

 

[Fallow]

to be put it in simpler terms, would you pose naked in your window? Not any window mind you, but, the second floor window on the side of your house. Is it private? Sure.... Can someone see you doing this and take pictures? Why yes they can.

That's also illegal btw in most places. Here's a general guideline for photography rules.

http://www.bypeople.com/photographers-rights-and-release-forms/

who said anything about legal?

EDIT:
My point is, you should plan for what can go wrong, will go wrong. Most people will pity you when life fails you. However, you brought it to some degree on yourself.

So the guy that got hit walking across the street brought it on himself because a car sped through a red light? I mean sure, running red lights is illegal and everything, but he kinda had it coming you know? Not planning for that car speeding through the light and just deciding not to walk in the first place.

This is about as victim blamey as you can get.

No one is Batman, you can't plan for every unlikely contingency, and there is no reasonable expectation that fat people should just keep their pictures off the internet if they don't want to be made fun of for their weight. oy...

edit: judging by a lot of responses in this thread, pity for 'when life fails you' doesn't seem to extend to the overweight.

It would correspond to getting hit by a car because you didn't bother to look left or right. Usually such an accident is not because of severe negligence or feelings of entitlement (I have a right to not get hit by a car so I'll just dance on the freeway).

These people have knowingly put their stuff online, available to all. Had they followed the minimal precautions of setting their images to private, it wouldn't have happened. But they did not. They posted public images.Public. That means the images are public. What more is there to it? Should personal responsibility be inverse to body weight? Are we no longer responsible for our own wellbeing or actions?

This 'victim blaming' of yours depends on the "victim" having no agency at all, which to my ears seem far more insulting than what some kids on 4chan could ever do. At least the kids treat these fat people as individuals.

 

[lacktheknack]

subroutine subjective_ethics(action) { ##returns 1 if "action" is ethical subjectively
int reaction = perform_on-self(action);
## if "reaction" is one, it means I responded positively.
return reaction;
}

define positive;
positive = 4A1B00; ##this complex number denotes that "positive" means that either I enjoyed or ##needed what I received

 

[Fallow]

subroutine subjective_ethics(action) { ##returns 1 if "action" is ethical subjectively
int reaction = perform_on-self(action);
## if "reaction" is one, it means I responded positively.
return reaction;
}

define positive;
positive = 4A1B00; ##this complex number denotes that "positive" means that either I enjoyed or ##needed what I received

I can see some edge cases here. What if the action is a handjob?

Sometimes the do unto others template falls short.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

That's, that's the very definition of victim blaming. Yeesh.

OT:Legally, maybe, kinda, if-you-squint, not quite illegal, depending on the area.

Ethically? Lol, no. Just no. Not ethical.

 

[Kailow Krow]

Privacy?! People online are complaining about "Privacy"?! How Ironic, I suppose when it's 4chan it's immoral but when it's the government trading nude selfies like baseball cards in the NSA it's okay!
(Hyperbole police arrest me. I'm turning myself in.)
But seiriously though. There is some salt for "don't put it on the internet in the first place" if you don't want people to download it, edit it, and do whatever the hell they want with it.
And, I mean, I agree that it was done to provoke a response, but wasn't that the same goal from the video game characters that elicited this response in the first place? Only they're more "Seriously" associated with their "movement".
That's kind of the point, it's a parody of what they did. They're making the point that what they're doing is of course absurd, but so is what they did, and for the exact same reasons to boot.
Yeah no one takes "project harpoon" seriously, that's what they want, they think that by doing this, the people they're attacking will be "outed" so to speak for being ridiculous too. And they are!
I feel like promoting "fat acceptance" is like promoting cigarette smoking except one kills you a lot quicker than the other.
I don't think it's immoral, I think, if you think it's immoral, you should re-evaluate your sense of humor! I mean look at how easily those guys got everybody riled up! Too easily if you ask me.

https://youtu.be/fHMoDt3nSHs

Sticks and stones bros. Sticks and stones. I just find it so positively absolutely insane how both sides get so easily offended and freak out. But I've noticed one little trend. It doesn't seem like 4chan and the like are actually getting offended.
They're trolls and it's hunting season for them. It has never ever been easier to get someone offended.
And then they laugh at them for not having the mental fortitude to grin and bear it.
"Be an adult grow up and deal with it!" Yeah. You too guys. We're living in this absurd self feeding ouroboric paradox where people are getting offended at other people being offended. How dare you offend me!? You're offended? That offends me! And so on forever.

Is their hippocritical (pun intended) lifestyles unhealthy? Yes.
Does that give you the right to shame them? No.
I mean, both sides of this argument have valid arguments to them. Both sides are going an awfully wrong way and down a dark path of which there is no return.
both sides are ignoring the fact that they can do something to change their situations aside from trolling one another.
And until they do that, no-one is going to win. It will be a long a bloody war.
I just like having the good seats to watch it and a bucket of popcorn with vegetable oil instead of butter on it.
Enjoy the shows folks!

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

*snip*

Uh, okay. I don't think we're going to come to any commonality here. I don't think going around randomly calling people racial slurs qualifies as a joke.

 

[Just Ebola]

Oh no doubt it started as trolling. What I'm saying is that something good actually might come of it. People are just getting salty because their hugbox is getting rocked. If a celebrity or god knows who puts a picture of themselves online for everyone to see and use, ridiculous photoshops of all manner are part of the deal. That includes unwanted "fixes" of their looks. Just because one is comfortable with some aspect of themselves does not mean that everybody has to be.

Of course it's all a matter of perspective and your mileage may vary. That picture of the woman in the black swimsuit you linked for example. You say "fit", I'd say "obese". Not morbidly, and not a "fat whale" by any stretch, but "fit" isn't what I'd say, and losing a bit of weight would certainly not hurt her health, aside from making her more conventionally attractive to most. Doesn't mean she should feel terrible about how she is now.

A bunch of people being unfairly outed may be a good thing, because said people may be humiliated enough to mold themselves to the ideals of a group of misguided, cowardly hypocrites? Your definition of good is somehow looser than your definition of "obese".

I didn't enter this thread with high expectations, but it's a little disturbing how many people don't care about invasion of privacy. I'm not a fan of social media, but people should be able to post their pictures to family and friends without worrying about being dragged through the shit by anonymous internet pricks.

I'm not an advocate of fatness, but a lot of the people they seem to be targeting are just average women, not really overweight. The line between shaming obesity and encouraging an unhealthy body image is being crossed. Ironically, the people spear-heading this movement are probably way bigger than most of their subjects of criticism.

They're on par with Indian men that stalk white girls and ask for photos of their genitalia.

That's a thing? I don't mean to derail, but... seriously? Why Indian men?

Or alternatively: Why, Indian men?

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

Did "Project Harpoon" have the right to do what they did? Was it a valid response to fat-positive feminist campaigns?

It's 4chan being stereotypically 4chan, I don't think we need spend too much time wondering if this is a good way to behave.

Gotta agree with this here. 4chan is like a force of nature, like a cloud that can rain and make wonderful things grow, or rain hailstones and break shit and injure people.

They only do shit for lulz, when it starts hailin', best you can do is roll your eyes and head for cover. No point in shouting at the cloud and telling it it's wrong. It doesn't care. If anything it'll hail more.

 

[Dizchu]

They're on par with Indian men that stalk white girls and ask for photos of their genitalia.

That's a thing? I don't mean to derail, but... seriously? Why Indian men?

Or alternatively: Why, Indian men?

I'm not entirely sure why it's a thing, but the whole "Indian stranger bluntly messages white girl on social media for lewd pictures/marriage in broken English" has almost become a meme in itself. Possibly influenced by Indian culture, which encourages men to stubbornly pursue women until they "give in to their desires" (Bollywood's been accused of normalising stalking). I'm no expert though, but India's poor attitudes towards human rights (especially when it comes to sexual assault) are a concern.

But really I haven't looked too deeply into it, I've just seen enough screenshots of awkward Tinder/Facebook chatups to make this comparison. When a stranger on Facebook pops up from a country on the other side of the planet that you've never been to before, with a complete disregard for the kind of social etiquette you've come to expect from your own culture, that just strikes me as very similar to what Project Harpoon are doing. The "victims" took the original photos with the intention of sharing them with small groups of friends. When a stranger comes along, meticulously photoshops them and redistributes them, that's extremely creepy behaviour, much like foreigners stalking girls online who happen to look pretty. Is it legal? I don't know and to be honest I don't really care. The law and basic human decency don't always coincide.

 

[lacktheknack]

subroutine subjective_ethics(action) { ##returns 1 if "action" is ethical subjectively
int reaction = perform_on-self(action);
## if "reaction" is one, it means I responded positively.
return reaction;
}

define positive;
positive = 4A1B00; ##this complex number denotes that "positive" means that either I enjoyed or ##needed what I received

I can see some edge cases here. What if the action is a handjob?

Sometimes the do unto others template falls short.

There's obviously an exception list that gets put through a much more complex subroutine, because I'm a terrible programmer.