The Ethics of "Project Harpoon"

[Lightknight]

One real disappointing event was the response to it. In responding vehemently against photos of them being "fatted up" via photoshop the groups pushing for more fat-favorable depictions have shown a double standard. Had they just laughed these people off as being silly and even thanking them for the alternate versions of themselves, this would have all festered on the harpooner's side. But, unless I'm missing something else that happened this just shows people preaching something they don't really believe in. Apparently being fat or even merely being depicted as such is offensive to them.

 

[Fallow]

to be put it in simpler terms, would you pose naked in your window? Not any window mind you, but, the second floor window on the side of your house. Is it private? Sure.... Can someone see you doing this and take pictures? Why yes they can.

That's also illegal btw in most places. Here's a general guideline for photography rules.

http://www.bypeople.com/photographers-rights-and-release-forms/

who said anything about legal?

EDIT:
My point is, you should plan for what can go wrong, will go wrong. Most people will pity you when life fails you. However, you brought it to some degree on yourself.

So the guy that got hit walking across the street brought it on himself because a car sped through a red light? I mean sure, running red lights is illegal and everything, but he kinda had it coming you know? Not planning for that car speeding through the light and just deciding not to walk in the first place.

This is about as victim blamey as you can get.

No one is Batman, you can't plan for every unlikely contingency, and there is no reasonable expectation that fat people should just keep their pictures off the internet if they don't want to be made fun of for their weight. oy...

edit: judging by a lot of responses in this thread, pity for 'when life fails you' doesn't seem to extend to the overweight.

It would correspond to getting hit by a car because you didn't bother to look left or right. Usually such an accident is not because of severe negligence or feelings of entitlement (I have a right to not get hit by a car so I'll just dance on the freeway).

These people have knowingly put their stuff online, available to all. Had they followed the minimal precautions of setting their images to private, it wouldn't have happened. But they did not. They posted public images.Public. That means the images are public. What more is there to it? Should personal responsibility be inverse to body weight? Are we no longer responsible for our own wellbeing or actions?

This 'victim blaming' of yours depends on the "victim" having no agency at all, which to my ears seem far more insulting than what some kids on 4chan could ever do. At least the kids treat these fat people as individuals.

 

[lacktheknack]

subroutine subjective_ethics(action) { ##returns 1 if "action" is ethical subjectively
int reaction = perform_on-self(action);
## if "reaction" is one, it means I responded positively.
return reaction;
}

define positive;
positive = 4A1B00; ##this complex number denotes that "positive" means that either I enjoyed or ##needed what I received

 

[Fallow]

subroutine subjective_ethics(action) { ##returns 1 if "action" is ethical subjectively
int reaction = perform_on-self(action);
## if "reaction" is one, it means I responded positively.
return reaction;
}

define positive;
positive = 4A1B00; ##this complex number denotes that "positive" means that either I enjoyed or ##needed what I received

I can see some edge cases here. What if the action is a handjob?

Sometimes the do unto others template falls short.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

That's, that's the very definition of victim blaming. Yeesh.

OT:Legally, maybe, kinda, if-you-squint, not quite illegal, depending on the area.

Ethically? Lol, no. Just no. Not ethical.

 

[Kailow Krow]

Privacy?! People online are complaining about "Privacy"?! How Ironic, I suppose when it's 4chan it's immoral but when it's the government trading nude selfies like baseball cards in the NSA it's okay!
(Hyperbole police arrest me. I'm turning myself in.)
But seiriously though. There is some salt for "don't put it on the internet in the first place" if you don't want people to download it, edit it, and do whatever the hell they want with it.
And, I mean, I agree that it was done to provoke a response, but wasn't that the same goal from the video game characters that elicited this response in the first place? Only they're more "Seriously" associated with their "movement".
That's kind of the point, it's a parody of what they did. They're making the point that what they're doing is of course absurd, but so is what they did, and for the exact same reasons to boot.
Yeah no one takes "project harpoon" seriously, that's what they want, they think that by doing this, the people they're attacking will be "outed" so to speak for being ridiculous too. And they are!
I feel like promoting "fat acceptance" is like promoting cigarette smoking except one kills you a lot quicker than the other.
I don't think it's immoral, I think, if you think it's immoral, you should re-evaluate your sense of humor! I mean look at how easily those guys got everybody riled up! Too easily if you ask me.

https://youtu.be/fHMoDt3nSHs

Sticks and stones bros. Sticks and stones. I just find it so positively absolutely insane how both sides get so easily offended and freak out. But I've noticed one little trend. It doesn't seem like 4chan and the like are actually getting offended.
They're trolls and it's hunting season for them. It has never ever been easier to get someone offended.
And then they laugh at them for not having the mental fortitude to grin and bear it.
"Be an adult grow up and deal with it!" Yeah. You too guys. We're living in this absurd self feeding ouroboric paradox where people are getting offended at other people being offended. How dare you offend me!? You're offended? That offends me! And so on forever.

Is their hippocritical (pun intended) lifestyles unhealthy? Yes.
Does that give you the right to shame them? No.
I mean, both sides of this argument have valid arguments to them. Both sides are going an awfully wrong way and down a dark path of which there is no return.
both sides are ignoring the fact that they can do something to change their situations aside from trolling one another.
And until they do that, no-one is going to win. It will be a long a bloody war.
I just like having the good seats to watch it and a bucket of popcorn with vegetable oil instead of butter on it.
Enjoy the shows folks!

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

*snip*

Uh, okay. I don't think we're going to come to any commonality here. I don't think going around randomly calling people racial slurs qualifies as a joke.

 

[Just Ebola]

Oh no doubt it started as trolling. What I'm saying is that something good actually might come of it. People are just getting salty because their hugbox is getting rocked. If a celebrity or god knows who puts a picture of themselves online for everyone to see and use, ridiculous photoshops of all manner are part of the deal. That includes unwanted "fixes" of their looks. Just because one is comfortable with some aspect of themselves does not mean that everybody has to be.

Of course it's all a matter of perspective and your mileage may vary. That picture of the woman in the black swimsuit you linked for example. You say "fit", I'd say "obese". Not morbidly, and not a "fat whale" by any stretch, but "fit" isn't what I'd say, and losing a bit of weight would certainly not hurt her health, aside from making her more conventionally attractive to most. Doesn't mean she should feel terrible about how she is now.

A bunch of people being unfairly outed may be a good thing, because said people may be humiliated enough to mold themselves to the ideals of a group of misguided, cowardly hypocrites? Your definition of good is somehow looser than your definition of "obese".

I didn't enter this thread with high expectations, but it's a little disturbing how many people don't care about invasion of privacy. I'm not a fan of social media, but people should be able to post their pictures to family and friends without worrying about being dragged through the shit by anonymous internet pricks.

I'm not an advocate of fatness, but a lot of the people they seem to be targeting are just average women, not really overweight. The line between shaming obesity and encouraging an unhealthy body image is being crossed. Ironically, the people spear-heading this movement are probably way bigger than most of their subjects of criticism.

They're on par with Indian men that stalk white girls and ask for photos of their genitalia.

That's a thing? I don't mean to derail, but... seriously? Why Indian men?

Or alternatively: Why, Indian men?

 

[CpT_x_Killsteal]

Did "Project Harpoon" have the right to do what they did? Was it a valid response to fat-positive feminist campaigns?

It's 4chan being stereotypically 4chan, I don't think we need spend too much time wondering if this is a good way to behave.

Gotta agree with this here. 4chan is like a force of nature, like a cloud that can rain and make wonderful things grow, or rain hailstones and break shit and injure people.

They only do shit for lulz, when it starts hailin', best you can do is roll your eyes and head for cover. No point in shouting at the cloud and telling it it's wrong. It doesn't care. If anything it'll hail more.

 

[Dizchu]

They're on par with Indian men that stalk white girls and ask for photos of their genitalia.

That's a thing? I don't mean to derail, but... seriously? Why Indian men?

Or alternatively: Why, Indian men?

I'm not entirely sure why it's a thing, but the whole "Indian stranger bluntly messages white girl on social media for lewd pictures/marriage in broken English" has almost become a meme in itself. Possibly influenced by Indian culture, which encourages men to stubbornly pursue women until they "give in to their desires" (Bollywood's been accused of normalising stalking). I'm no expert though, but India's poor attitudes towards human rights (especially when it comes to sexual assault) are a concern.

But really I haven't looked too deeply into it, I've just seen enough screenshots of awkward Tinder/Facebook chatups to make this comparison. When a stranger on Facebook pops up from a country on the other side of the planet that you've never been to before, with a complete disregard for the kind of social etiquette you've come to expect from your own culture, that just strikes me as very similar to what Project Harpoon are doing. The "victims" took the original photos with the intention of sharing them with small groups of friends. When a stranger comes along, meticulously photoshops them and redistributes them, that's extremely creepy behaviour, much like foreigners stalking girls online who happen to look pretty. Is it legal? I don't know and to be honest I don't really care. The law and basic human decency don't always coincide.

 

[lacktheknack]

subroutine subjective_ethics(action) { ##returns 1 if "action" is ethical subjectively
int reaction = perform_on-self(action);
## if "reaction" is one, it means I responded positively.
return reaction;
}

define positive;
positive = 4A1B00; ##this complex number denotes that "positive" means that either I enjoyed or ##needed what I received

I can see some edge cases here. What if the action is a handjob?

Sometimes the do unto others template falls short.

There's obviously an exception list that gets put through a much more complex subroutine, because I'm a terrible programmer.

 

[DementedSheep]

Seriously, would anybody actually defend this as an ok thing to do (apart from the reactionary "it's my right to act like a complete c*nt because free speech" thing that a baffling number of people think is worth saying)

The reason that fat-shaming is bad isn't just because it's mean and smug, it's because it doesn't work (in terms of forcing fat people to lose weight) it only succeeds in making fat people miserable. I get that this is probably trolling by the way.

The idea that putting a picture of yourself online means you deserve anything that gets done to that image is ridiculous. Why not extend that to going out in public? Or opening your curtains?

Not only dose it not help, it makes thing worse because to lose weight you generally need to actually go out an exercise which just opens them up to more mockery from assholes like this. Not to mention over eating and lack of motivation is a pretty common side effect when people feel down about themselves. Peoples exceptions of weight loss are also completely out of wack. It's not "just a little effort". Keeping off more than 15% of you heaviest body weight without surgery is very hard because you body is wired to try to stay at that and of course there are number of health issues and medications that cause weight gain.
Plus some of the people they have aren't overweight enough for it a huge health problem and I'm willing to bet everyone here dose it one thing that is very unhealthy.
The things that annoys me the most about this is if you're going to be asshole at least own it. Don't pretend you're actually doing it for their benefit. The only people who go along with that transparent BS are the people doing the same and just declaring them trolls doesn't somehow make this any better.

 

[OrijinalDreamin]

For everyone pulling "shouldn't have taken a picture" shit (it not like they are taking nudes, it's normal pictures) I hope someone finds a photo of you on your personal facebooks, post it on page dedicated to mocking people who are f-ing ugly and it becomes a meme.

Ignoring the aggressive tone: I dunno, Bad News Brian, Scumbag Stacy/Steve, Overly Attached Girlfriend seemed to own their internet personas, whether or not they behave like that in reality. It's all about one's perspective on the thing: it's part of why /r/RoastMe is taking off; some people just have thick skin, and are willing to laugh things off.

Not only dose it not help, it makes thing worse because to lose weight you generally need to actually go out an exercise which just opens them up to more mockery from assholes like this.


As an aside, the assholes who would mock ANYONE, much less fat people trying to get in shape at the gym are a completely different breed of asshole, from the ones that neg others for their dietary/fitness lifestyles.


edit: can a brother get some help with multiple quote replies?

 

[Fallow]

For everyone pulling "shouldn't have taken a picture" shit (it not like they are taking nudes, it's normal pictures) I hope someone finds a photo of you on your personal facebooks, post it on page dedicated to mocking people who are f-ing ugly and it becomes a meme.

Except they can't. You see, when hovering over the submit button I asked myself: "Am I comfortable with this picture being online and accessible to everyone on the internet forever, with all consequents it entails?". Turns out I wasn't, and as such I didn't publish my photos online, even though everyone else was doing it. Turns out I wouldn't jump off a bridge if everyone else was doing it either.

I call this phenomenon responsibility, and it used to be a thing.

 

[Tilly]

I should make it clear that I'm not saying humiliating edited photos are on par with rape. Rather, it's comparable because of victim blaming. "If you don't want people to do (bad thing X), don't do (completely acceptable thing Y)".

The whole victim blaming thing is such nonsense. Almost no-one in any crime ever thinks the victim should actually be blame for the crime. But that's a completely separate issue as to whether you can avoid being a victim in the first place. Whether people like it or not, it's just a fact that you avoid being a victim in lots of crimes. Just don't walk through a rough part of town at night by yourself. Ever! If you get mugged or attacked, we'll still blame the attacker. But you shouldn't have been doing it, for your own sake. That's not blaming you instead of the attacker.

 

[Jux]

to be put it in simpler terms, would you pose naked in your window? Not any window mind you, but, the second floor window on the side of your house. Is it private? Sure.... Can someone see you doing this and take pictures? Why yes they can.

That's also illegal btw in most places. Here's a general guideline for photography rules.

http://www.bypeople.com/photographers-rights-and-release-forms/

who said anything about legal?

EDIT:
My point is, you should plan for what can go wrong, will go wrong. Most people will pity you when life fails you. However, you brought it to some degree on yourself.

So the guy that got hit walking across the street brought it on himself because a car sped through a red light? I mean sure, running red lights is illegal and everything, but he kinda had it coming you know? Not planning for that car speeding through the light and just deciding not to walk in the first place.

This is about as victim blamey as you can get.

No one is Batman, you can't plan for every unlikely contingency, and there is no reasonable expectation that fat people should just keep their pictures off the internet if they don't want to be made fun of for their weight. oy...

edit: judging by a lot of responses in this thread, pity for 'when life fails you' doesn't seem to extend to the overweight.

It would correspond to getting hit by a car because you didn't bother to look left or right. Usually such an accident is not because of severe negligence or feelings of entitlement (I have a right to not get hit by a car so I'll just dance on the freeway).

These people have knowingly put their stuff online, available to all. Had they followed the minimal precautions of setting their images to private, it wouldn't have happened. But they did not. They posted public images.Public. That means the images are public. What more is there to it? Should personal responsibility be inverse to body weight? Are we no longer responsible for our own wellbeing or actions?

This 'victim blaming' of yours depends on the "victim" having no agency at all, which to my ears seem far more insulting than what some kids on 4chan could ever do. At least the kids treat these fat people as individuals.

There is no reasonable expectation that people will be publicly humiliated for putting their pictures on facebook, just as there is no reasonable expectation I'll get creamed by a car while walking through a crosswalk when I have the right of way, despite your ridiculous attempt at reframing the scenario.

 

[Phasmal]

It's just dumb people being dumb once again, though I did read somewhere that it was apparently started as a backlash against that post that was going around with the fattened-up video game characters. I don't know if that's true or not but if it is that is some of the funniest shit I have heard in a long time, makes me picture some guys red with rage over someone messing with their waifu so now they have to FIGHT BACK!

Still, a little more seriously, messing with other people's pictures is dicky, and probably breaking facebook's rules. I don't really see why anyone would reasonably be for this.

 

[Fallow]

to be put it in simpler terms, would you pose naked in your window? Not any window mind you, but, the second floor window on the side of your house. Is it private? Sure.... Can someone see you doing this and take pictures? Why yes they can.

That's also illegal btw in most places. Here's a general guideline for photography rules.

http://www.bypeople.com/photographers-rights-and-release-forms/

who said anything about legal?

EDIT:
My point is, you should plan for what can go wrong, will go wrong. Most people will pity you when life fails you. However, you brought it to some degree on yourself.

So the guy that got hit walking across the street brought it on himself because a car sped through a red light? I mean sure, running red lights is illegal and everything, but he kinda had it coming you know? Not planning for that car speeding through the light and just deciding not to walk in the first place.

This is about as victim blamey as you can get.

No one is Batman, you can't plan for every unlikely contingency, and there is no reasonable expectation that fat people should just keep their pictures off the internet if they don't want to be made fun of for their weight. oy...

edit: judging by a lot of responses in this thread, pity for 'when life fails you' doesn't seem to extend to the overweight.

It would correspond to getting hit by a car because you didn't bother to look left or right. Usually such an accident is not because of severe negligence or feelings of entitlement (I have a right to not get hit by a car so I'll just dance on the freeway).

These people have knowingly put their stuff online, available to all. Had they followed the minimal precautions of setting their images to private, it wouldn't have happened. But they did not. They posted public images.Public. That means the images are public. What more is there to it? Should personal responsibility be inverse to body weight? Are we no longer responsible for our own wellbeing or actions?

This 'victim blaming' of yours depends on the "victim" having no agency at all, which to my ears seem far more insulting than what some kids on 4chan could ever do. At least the kids treat these fat people as individuals.

There is no reasonable expectation that people will be publicly humiliated for putting their pictures on facebook, just as there is no reasonable expectation I'll get creamed by a car while walking through a crosswalk when I have the right of way, despite your ridiculous attempt at reframing the scenario.

If there is no reasonable expectation of getting hit by a car, why do people look left and right before crossing the street? Are we all blundering into traffic blindly? (I'm not)

If there is no reasonable expectation that people will save/download/alter your photos, why is there a 'make private' option for photos? Are we all putting our private pics on public platforms? (I'm not)

You aren't arguing with me; you are arguing with reality at this point.

 

[Dizchu]

Except they can't. You see, when hovering over the submit button I asked myself: "Am I comfortable with this picture being online and accessible to everyone on the internet forever, with all consequents it entails?". Turns out I wasn't, and as such I didn't publish my photos online, even though everyone else was doing it. Turns out I wouldn't jump off a bridge if everyone else was doing it either.

I call this phenomenon responsibility, and it used to be a thing.

Look, there are risks to pretty much anything you do. By going outside you risk being mugged, by living in certain places you risk being caught in an earthquake, tornado, flood, volcanic eruption etc. By crossing the road when the traffic light indicates you can cross the road, you risk a driver ignoring the red light and hitting you.

The level of "responsibility" you are expecting of people is unreasonable. You compare publishing photos on social media to jumping off a bridge. I know you don't think the two are as severe, but the fact that you associate such an benign thing as uploading some selfies to Facebook or Tumblr with something that is guaranteed to cause harm is quite disturbing. Just because there are some socially inept misanthropists on 4chan, conveniently hiding behind shrouds of anonymity and holding no regard for social etiquette (whether out of being thick as shit or cruelty) doesn't mean that everyone should live in constant paranoia.

You know what? People in general might be a bit too eager to share things online, not knowing that anonymity allows for strangers to do pretty awful things. But that doesn't mean that the anonymous strangers are in the right.

The whole victim blaming thing is such nonsense. Almost no-one in any crime ever thinks the victim should actually be blame for the crime. But that's a completely separate issue as to whether you can avoid being a victim in the first place. Whether people like it or not, it's just a fact that you avoid being a victim in lots of crimes. Just don't walk through a rough part of town at night by yourself. Ever! If you get mugged or attacked, we'll still blame the attacker. But you shouldn't have been doing it, for your own sake. That's not blaming you instead of the attacker.

Well the difference here is that the people that edited and shared the photos are being defended for "not doing anything wrong". I agree with you that, while it is generally advised that people take caution (avoid the bad part of town, don't leave your front door unlocked) the people that committed those crimes are still to blame in most people's eyes.