The Ethics of "Project Harpoon"

[DementedSheep]

Seriously, would anybody actually defend this as an ok thing to do (apart from the reactionary "it's my right to act like a complete c*nt because free speech" thing that a baffling number of people think is worth saying)

The reason that fat-shaming is bad isn't just because it's mean and smug, it's because it doesn't work (in terms of forcing fat people to lose weight) it only succeeds in making fat people miserable. I get that this is probably trolling by the way.

The idea that putting a picture of yourself online means you deserve anything that gets done to that image is ridiculous. Why not extend that to going out in public? Or opening your curtains?

Not only dose it not help, it makes thing worse because to lose weight you generally need to actually go out an exercise which just opens them up to more mockery from assholes like this. Not to mention over eating and lack of motivation is a pretty common side effect when people feel down about themselves. Peoples exceptions of weight loss are also completely out of wack. It's not "just a little effort". Keeping off more than 15% of you heaviest body weight without surgery is very hard because you body is wired to try to stay at that and of course there are number of health issues and medications that cause weight gain.
Plus some of the people they have aren't overweight enough for it a huge health problem and I'm willing to bet everyone here dose it one thing that is very unhealthy.
The things that annoys me the most about this is if you're going to be asshole at least own it. Don't pretend you're actually doing it for their benefit. The only people who go along with that transparent BS are the people doing the same and just declaring them trolls doesn't somehow make this any better.

 

[OrijinalDreamin]

For everyone pulling "shouldn't have taken a picture" shit (it not like they are taking nudes, it's normal pictures) I hope someone finds a photo of you on your personal facebooks, post it on page dedicated to mocking people who are f-ing ugly and it becomes a meme.

Ignoring the aggressive tone: I dunno, Bad News Brian, Scumbag Stacy/Steve, Overly Attached Girlfriend seemed to own their internet personas, whether or not they behave like that in reality. It's all about one's perspective on the thing: it's part of why /r/RoastMe is taking off; some people just have thick skin, and are willing to laugh things off.

Not only dose it not help, it makes thing worse because to lose weight you generally need to actually go out an exercise which just opens them up to more mockery from assholes like this.


As an aside, the assholes who would mock ANYONE, much less fat people trying to get in shape at the gym are a completely different breed of asshole, from the ones that neg others for their dietary/fitness lifestyles.


edit: can a brother get some help with multiple quote replies?

 

[Fallow]

For everyone pulling "shouldn't have taken a picture" shit (it not like they are taking nudes, it's normal pictures) I hope someone finds a photo of you on your personal facebooks, post it on page dedicated to mocking people who are f-ing ugly and it becomes a meme.

Except they can't. You see, when hovering over the submit button I asked myself: "Am I comfortable with this picture being online and accessible to everyone on the internet forever, with all consequents it entails?". Turns out I wasn't, and as such I didn't publish my photos online, even though everyone else was doing it. Turns out I wouldn't jump off a bridge if everyone else was doing it either.

I call this phenomenon responsibility, and it used to be a thing.

 

[Tilly]

I should make it clear that I'm not saying humiliating edited photos are on par with rape. Rather, it's comparable because of victim blaming. "If you don't want people to do (bad thing X), don't do (completely acceptable thing Y)".

The whole victim blaming thing is such nonsense. Almost no-one in any crime ever thinks the victim should actually be blame for the crime. But that's a completely separate issue as to whether you can avoid being a victim in the first place. Whether people like it or not, it's just a fact that you avoid being a victim in lots of crimes. Just don't walk through a rough part of town at night by yourself. Ever! If you get mugged or attacked, we'll still blame the attacker. But you shouldn't have been doing it, for your own sake. That's not blaming you instead of the attacker.

 

[Jux]

to be put it in simpler terms, would you pose naked in your window? Not any window mind you, but, the second floor window on the side of your house. Is it private? Sure.... Can someone see you doing this and take pictures? Why yes they can.

That's also illegal btw in most places. Here's a general guideline for photography rules.

http://www.bypeople.com/photographers-rights-and-release-forms/

who said anything about legal?

EDIT:
My point is, you should plan for what can go wrong, will go wrong. Most people will pity you when life fails you. However, you brought it to some degree on yourself.

So the guy that got hit walking across the street brought it on himself because a car sped through a red light? I mean sure, running red lights is illegal and everything, but he kinda had it coming you know? Not planning for that car speeding through the light and just deciding not to walk in the first place.

This is about as victim blamey as you can get.

No one is Batman, you can't plan for every unlikely contingency, and there is no reasonable expectation that fat people should just keep their pictures off the internet if they don't want to be made fun of for their weight. oy...

edit: judging by a lot of responses in this thread, pity for 'when life fails you' doesn't seem to extend to the overweight.

It would correspond to getting hit by a car because you didn't bother to look left or right. Usually such an accident is not because of severe negligence or feelings of entitlement (I have a right to not get hit by a car so I'll just dance on the freeway).

These people have knowingly put their stuff online, available to all. Had they followed the minimal precautions of setting their images to private, it wouldn't have happened. But they did not. They posted public images.Public. That means the images are public. What more is there to it? Should personal responsibility be inverse to body weight? Are we no longer responsible for our own wellbeing or actions?

This 'victim blaming' of yours depends on the "victim" having no agency at all, which to my ears seem far more insulting than what some kids on 4chan could ever do. At least the kids treat these fat people as individuals.

There is no reasonable expectation that people will be publicly humiliated for putting their pictures on facebook, just as there is no reasonable expectation I'll get creamed by a car while walking through a crosswalk when I have the right of way, despite your ridiculous attempt at reframing the scenario.

 

[Phasmal]

It's just dumb people being dumb once again, though I did read somewhere that it was apparently started as a backlash against that post that was going around with the fattened-up video game characters. I don't know if that's true or not but if it is that is some of the funniest shit I have heard in a long time, makes me picture some guys red with rage over someone messing with their waifu so now they have to FIGHT BACK!

Still, a little more seriously, messing with other people's pictures is dicky, and probably breaking facebook's rules. I don't really see why anyone would reasonably be for this.

 

[Fallow]

to be put it in simpler terms, would you pose naked in your window? Not any window mind you, but, the second floor window on the side of your house. Is it private? Sure.... Can someone see you doing this and take pictures? Why yes they can.

That's also illegal btw in most places. Here's a general guideline for photography rules.

http://www.bypeople.com/photographers-rights-and-release-forms/

who said anything about legal?

EDIT:
My point is, you should plan for what can go wrong, will go wrong. Most people will pity you when life fails you. However, you brought it to some degree on yourself.

So the guy that got hit walking across the street brought it on himself because a car sped through a red light? I mean sure, running red lights is illegal and everything, but he kinda had it coming you know? Not planning for that car speeding through the light and just deciding not to walk in the first place.

This is about as victim blamey as you can get.

No one is Batman, you can't plan for every unlikely contingency, and there is no reasonable expectation that fat people should just keep their pictures off the internet if they don't want to be made fun of for their weight. oy...

edit: judging by a lot of responses in this thread, pity for 'when life fails you' doesn't seem to extend to the overweight.

It would correspond to getting hit by a car because you didn't bother to look left or right. Usually such an accident is not because of severe negligence or feelings of entitlement (I have a right to not get hit by a car so I'll just dance on the freeway).

These people have knowingly put their stuff online, available to all. Had they followed the minimal precautions of setting their images to private, it wouldn't have happened. But they did not. They posted public images.Public. That means the images are public. What more is there to it? Should personal responsibility be inverse to body weight? Are we no longer responsible for our own wellbeing or actions?

This 'victim blaming' of yours depends on the "victim" having no agency at all, which to my ears seem far more insulting than what some kids on 4chan could ever do. At least the kids treat these fat people as individuals.

There is no reasonable expectation that people will be publicly humiliated for putting their pictures on facebook, just as there is no reasonable expectation I'll get creamed by a car while walking through a crosswalk when I have the right of way, despite your ridiculous attempt at reframing the scenario.

If there is no reasonable expectation of getting hit by a car, why do people look left and right before crossing the street? Are we all blundering into traffic blindly? (I'm not)

If there is no reasonable expectation that people will save/download/alter your photos, why is there a 'make private' option for photos? Are we all putting our private pics on public platforms? (I'm not)

You aren't arguing with me; you are arguing with reality at this point.

 

[Dizchu]

Except they can't. You see, when hovering over the submit button I asked myself: "Am I comfortable with this picture being online and accessible to everyone on the internet forever, with all consequents it entails?". Turns out I wasn't, and as such I didn't publish my photos online, even though everyone else was doing it. Turns out I wouldn't jump off a bridge if everyone else was doing it either.

I call this phenomenon responsibility, and it used to be a thing.

Look, there are risks to pretty much anything you do. By going outside you risk being mugged, by living in certain places you risk being caught in an earthquake, tornado, flood, volcanic eruption etc. By crossing the road when the traffic light indicates you can cross the road, you risk a driver ignoring the red light and hitting you.

The level of "responsibility" you are expecting of people is unreasonable. You compare publishing photos on social media to jumping off a bridge. I know you don't think the two are as severe, but the fact that you associate such an benign thing as uploading some selfies to Facebook or Tumblr with something that is guaranteed to cause harm is quite disturbing. Just because there are some socially inept misanthropists on 4chan, conveniently hiding behind shrouds of anonymity and holding no regard for social etiquette (whether out of being thick as shit or cruelty) doesn't mean that everyone should live in constant paranoia.

You know what? People in general might be a bit too eager to share things online, not knowing that anonymity allows for strangers to do pretty awful things. But that doesn't mean that the anonymous strangers are in the right.

The whole victim blaming thing is such nonsense. Almost no-one in any crime ever thinks the victim should actually be blame for the crime. But that's a completely separate issue as to whether you can avoid being a victim in the first place. Whether people like it or not, it's just a fact that you avoid being a victim in lots of crimes. Just don't walk through a rough part of town at night by yourself. Ever! If you get mugged or attacked, we'll still blame the attacker. But you shouldn't have been doing it, for your own sake. That's not blaming you instead of the attacker.

Well the difference here is that the people that edited and shared the photos are being defended for "not doing anything wrong". I agree with you that, while it is generally advised that people take caution (avoid the bad part of town, don't leave your front door unlocked) the people that committed those crimes are still to blame in most people's eyes.

 

[Dizchu]

If there is no reasonable expectation of getting hit by a car, why do people look left and right before crossing the street? Are we all blundering into traffic blindly? (I'm not)

This comparison would only work if drivers deliberately drove into pedestrians that didn't look both ways. If Project Harpoon took these photos and edited them "accidentally" (for example, they were under the assumption that they had permission to do so) then you'd have a point.

 

[FireAza]

Goddamit 4chan! This is why people think gamers are all psychotic man-children!

 

[WonkyWarmaiden]

These people on 4chan are being colossal assholes to be quite honest, which is thoroughly unsurprising. They're also stupid if they think that photoshopping a few video game characters is the same as doing it to actual pictures of women.

Quaint little name, too. I guess they're fighting all the 'whales', aka fat women, that are trying to steal away their hot lady characters. Because everyone knows that was the end goal of that video game photo set. /sarcasm

Christ, people are idiots.

 

[Fallow]

Look, there are risks to pretty much anything you do. By going outside you risk being mugged, by living in certain places you risk being caught in an earthquake, tornado, flood, volcanic eruption etc. By crossing the road when the traffic light indicates you can cross the road, you risk a driver ignoring the red light and hitting you.

The level of "responsibility" you are expecting of people is unreasonable. You compare publishing photos on social media to jumping off a bridge. I know you don't think the two are as severe, but the fact that you associate such an benign thing as uploading some selfies to Facebook or Tumblr with something that is guaranteed to cause harm is quite disturbing. Just because there are some socially inept misanthropists on 4chan, conveniently hiding behind shrouds of anonymity and holding no regard for social etiquette (whether out of being thick as shit or cruelty) doesn't mean that everyone should live in constant paranoia.

I don't know, I think it's more forethought that I demand.
Going with the "don't walk around in bad part of town at night" scenario, it's pretty obvious what happens when you dun goofed, and the desire to not get assaulted is pretty innate. Posting your photos on FB the consequents are much less black/white, and I'm speculating that the common response is "What's the worst that could happen, everyone else is doing it". The connection between antecedent and consequent is thus less obvious. And this is after the events of the Fappening.
Given how many stories, how many "news" articles, how any "private" videos, how many scandals etc there have been where online photos are stolen/altered, it doesn't seem like a faraway thought to me that one should be careful. I absolutely believe that the level of forethought required is inverse to the amount of thinking that is needed to see the consequents, and here that level is low. Very low.

The bridge thing isn't actually a bridge thing - it's a classic zen koan for "If everyone was doing it, would you?", and even when I was growing up it was a classic, as I first saw it in Calvin and Hobbes. Here [http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/If_All_Your_Friends_Jumped_Off_A_Bridge] is the first thing I find on the koan, and here [https://xkcd.com/1170/] is another.

Also, misanthropists implicates a dedication that isn't present on /b/. It's for poops and giggles by people that do not care, not any hatred of humanity at large.

You know what? People in general might be a bit too eager to share things online, not knowing that anonymity allows for strangers to do pretty awful things. But that doesn't mean that the anonymous strangers are in the right.

This I feel is the center of the issue. Not the anonymity thing, that's tangential, but the vast distance between action and consequence when it comes to the internet (especially for those who do not understand the internet).
Essentially, you are doing stuff in the privacy of your own home (a private, safe, space), that is published in an international, vast, public space. You apply your private sensibilities (showering, walking around naked, speaking your mind without filtering and all those things you would never do in public) to stuff you say/do in a public space because you feel far more safe than you should. Not only that, but it's a massive space that includes all cultures, not just your own kind that sort of understands you.
This is not how we have grown up to understand these spheres, and it's very different from how we perceive and interact with the physical world (IRL stuff). One needs to understand that it's different, not merely scream at the moon that it shouldn't be so.

 

[Fallow]

If there is no reasonable expectation of getting hit by a car, why do people look left and right before crossing the street? Are we all blundering into traffic blindly? (I'm not)

This comparison would only work if drivers deliberately drove into pedestrians that didn't look both ways. If Project Harpoon took these photos and edited them "accidentally" (for example, they were under the assumption that they had permission to do so) then you'd have a point.

No, because it works both ways. The drivers wouldn't resonably expect pedestrians to be crossing the street without looking, and as such shouldn't bother to look for them.

 

[RedRockRun]

Oh, like hell 4chan would ever have anyone's best interests in mind. Let's forget that fat shaming or any counter and counter-counter movements exist. This is about 4chan bullies making fun of people. There is no chance that any of these dregs want to help anyone. All they are interested in is making other people sad and angry so that they can in turn feel happy. Of course they will say that it's a social reaction, that it's important for people to care about body image and stay healthy, and that telling people that it's okay to be overweight encourages unhealthy lifestyles, but only in Bizarro World would 4chan actually be telling the truth about caring. They don't care. It's trolling, and that's all it will ever be. The only reason they are hiding behind this veneer of social responsibility is to further enrage people, given it's harder to argue with people acting sanctimonious. So please, people - don't trust them, and regardless of whether you are for or against fat shaming, let's call this what it is: bullying.

I don't see anyone being ridiculed. Hell, on the FB page and on their subreddit people are lining up REQUESTING to be shopped for these exact reasons.

As a matter of fact, many coaches that get paid heaps of money to help their clients to be motivated to attain their goals employ this EXACT strategy: Do away with negative thoughts and doubts ("Why am I so fat?") and instead formulate a positive, enthusiastic goal. ("I want an awesome attractive body with a fit physique and visible muscle definition!")
This is precisely this.
All this butthurt is just the result of the current trend to label stating anything but cuddly feel-good hugbox "everyone is perfect <3" phrases as "offensive", "shaming" or "discrimination."

You use the word "hugbox" a lot. The only other place I've seen that used is Encyclopedia Dramatica. Why do you like watching the butthurt as well? It's one thing to like the idea of something, but what do you get from seeing other people angry? What's it do for you?

Make no mistake, I'm all for the root idea behind fat shaming i.e. not pretending like being overweight is okay, and I'm also against the storm of political correctness and hair trigger offense going around, but I'll never be okay with bullying or those who take pleasure in others' sadness and anger.

 

[Jux]

If there is no reasonable expectation of getting hit by a car, why do people look left and right before crossing the street? Are we all blundering into traffic blindly? (I'm not)

You think it's reasonable to expect that cars run through red lights and mow down pedestrians?

[/quote]If there is no reasonable expectation that people will save/download/alter your photos, why is there a 'make private' option for photos? Are we all putting our private pics on public platforms? (I'm not)

You aren't arguing with me; you are arguing with reality at this point.[/quote]

I find it bizarre that you jump to the conclusion that just because private settings exist, that must mean a public setting makes one fair game for shit like this. The fact that privacy and publicity laws exist pretty much blows this notion out the water. The one 'arguing against reality' here is you, not me.

 

[RobertEHouse]

I do not agree with what they did but....

In the past 30 or so years people have been told not to post private things on the web because the web is not private!

Understand that anything posted into Facebook gives Facebook the right to use it as they wish for marketing purposes. The same can be said with Twitter and other social media sites, in essence you handed them rights to those images unless you copyrighted them. So if you want to bash about privacy, you should have read the fine policy.

Also national privacy laws "do not extend" to the web because of the international community of nations which all have different or not existent privacy laws.

As for 4Chan, it is the wild west for trolling and Lulz you can't expect it to act any different then it does.

 

[RedRockRun]

I do not agree with what they did but....

In the past 30 or so years people have been told not to post private things on the web because the web is not private!. Also understand that anything posted into Facebook gives Facebook the right to use it as they wish for marketing purposes. The same can be said with Twitter and other social media sites, in essence you handed them rights to those images unless you copyrighted them. So if you want to bash about privacy, you aim at those sites first for having such policies.

As for 4Chan, it is the wild west for trolling and Lulz you can't expect it to act any different then it does.

Still, you can't blame the victims of this stuff by saying that they should have known better. Trolls aren't weather events or wild animals that can't be controlled. They're people who have chosen to purposefully hurt other people.

Also I don't know why there isn't a copyright of sorts for personal pictures. It's your face, after all. Unless the picture in question was taken by an ad agency for the specific purpose of being part of a company, your face is your property and no one else's, and if someone wants to do something with your likeness I think they should need your approval.

 

[Thaluikhain]

As a aside, this is one of those times when Jux's avatar seems really appropriate.

But you shouldn't have been doing it, for your own sake. That's not blaming you instead of the attacker.

It is. You cannot say something should have done something different to avoid something happened without blaming them, at least in part, for that thing happening.

Privacy?! People online are complaining about "Privacy"?! How Ironic, I suppose when it's 4chan it's immoral but when it's the government trading nude selfies like baseball cards in the NSA it's okay!

Ok according to whom? Plenty of people are against the NSA doing it as well.

 

[Jux]

Understand that anything posted into Facebook gives Facebook the right to use it as they wish for marketing purposes. The same can be said with Twitter and other social media sites, in essence you handed them rights to those images unless you copyrighted them. So if you want to bash about privacy, you should have read the fine policy.

Unless Facebook was the one heading up project harpoon, this is a complete non sequitur. Giving facebook the rights to use your images isn't the same as giving anyone the right to use your images. If you're going to admonish people for not reading the policy, maybe make sure you know what's in the policy first.

 

[RobertEHouse]

I do not agree with what they did but....

In the past 30 or so years people have been told not to post private things on the web because the web is not private!. Also understand that anything posted into Facebook gives Facebook the right to use it as they wish for marketing purposes. The same can be said with Twitter and other social media sites, in essence you handed them rights to those images unless you copyrighted them. So if you want to bash about privacy, you aim at those sites first for having such policies.

As for 4Chan, it is the wild west for trolling and Lulz you can't expect it to act any different then it does.

Still, you can't blame the victims of this stuff by saying that they should have known better. Trolls aren't weather events or wild animals that can't be controlled. They're people who have chosen to purposefully hurt other people.

Also I don't know why there isn't a copyright of sorts for personal pictures. It's your face, after all. Unless the picture in question was taken by an ad agency for the specific purpose of being part of a company, your face is your property and no one else's, and if someone wants to do something with your likeness I think they should need your approval.

First I am not blaming the victims, this was a horrible act. But they acted naïve how do you expect privacy when you post private photos?. How do expect privacy when web-sites have been hacked and millions of names and addresses from some social media sites have been sold to Black-market sites? you can't and should not. Naivety will always make someone a victim, the question is how many people will learn from this and realize the web is not private.

No Joke! You can copyright your body at the US patent office, my cousin did this. All you have to do is send in several full nude body turn around photos and paperwork then send that to the US patent office. They will look over them and see if you have you have a right for a copyright. You can look it up at their website or even just search the web about it. So if you have privacy issues already, I am sure you will have them after having patent clerk browsing your nudes.