The Evolution of Games Journalism

Jumwa

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thaluikhain said:
Saying a game is racist isn't automatically wrong, racism is hardly an uncommon thing.
Right. Jim Sterling has done a Jimquisition about how you can still enjoy problematic culture. Acknowledging problems with what you love doesn't mean you have to stop enjoying them.

I like the comic, but I think people will take the wrong lessons from it. As I see it, it's the process of gamers and game culture growing up.

At first it's all unquestioning optimism, then when you grow up a bit and start to see flaws you react far too negatively. Then later on you start to strike a balance where you can recognize and discuss the flaws with what you enjoy while still enjoying it, and heck, even deriving value out of discussing those flaws.

Many of my favourite authors were racists and misogynists, but I still love the work. And far from ruining the works, it has led to some enlightening and amusing discussions.
 

Xman490

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Alarien said:
Immediate thought was: "Yep, that's Yahtzee."

Interestingly truthful comic, however. It seems a lot of discussion recently hasn't had to do with whether a game is good or not, it's about whether the story/characters are or are not some negative trope.

I think we keep forgetting that gameplay really should come first.
That much is exactly what I thought after watching his review of Super Mario 3D World. Every time he reviews a Mario game he takes a minute each to bash the story (that is only relevant enough in first cutscenes and endings) and the new power-ups (that actually add some of the gameplay variety).

OT: The critic in the second panel also made me think of the Nostalgia Critic. The third panel immediately brought this site's Grand Theft Auto V review to mind.
 

Entitled

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Jumwa said:
I like the comic, but I think people will take the wrong lessons from it. As I see it, it's the process of gamers and game culture growing up.

At first it's all unquestioning optimism, then when you grow up a bit and start to see flaws you react far too negatively. Then later on you start to strike a balance where you can recognize and discuss the flaws with what you enjoy while still enjoying it, and heck, even deriving value out of discussing those flaws.
Indeed. Those who "want to go back" to either decade, are entirely missing the point.

Pretending that every single game is awesome, was not some superior method of optimism, from which we lost our way, it was immature and naive. And in it's way, so was the latter backlash with it's naive youthful arrogance of conviction that everything sucks, as a shallow attempt to sound more deep.

There are many decades ahead, and there is even more room to improve. Criticizing cultural issues is still just an ATTEMPT at sounding complex, but it's following the right pattern, there is only even more complexity and depth ahead, we are not going backwards to childish simplicity.
 

Efrath

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Jumwa said:
thaluikhain said:
Saying a game is racist isn't automatically wrong, racism is hardly an uncommon thing.
Right. Jim Sterling has done a Jimquisition about how you can still enjoy problematic culture. Acknowledging problems with what you love doesn't mean you have to stop enjoying them.

I like the comic, but I think people will take the wrong lessons from it. As I see it, it's the process of gamers and game culture growing up.

At first it's all unquestioning optimism, then when you grow up a bit and start to see flaws you react far too negatively. Then later on you start to strike a balance where you can recognize and discuss the flaws with what you enjoy while still enjoying it, and heck, even deriving value out of discussing those flaws.

Many of my favourite authors were racists and misogynists, but I still love the work. And far from ruining the works, it has led to some enlightening and amusing discussions.
I personally think the problem is more that people fling around the words "Racism" and "Sexism" all too often while believing they are factually correct which certainly isn't always the case.

But discussing what is sexism/racism and not is usually difficult as people on both sides tend to get defensive very quickly and assume a moral high ground where they presume themselves to be superior or more enlightened than the other side (Though from my experience, the ones accusing of mediums and/or design/story choices tend to be the worst offenders of th is).

Doesn't stop me from arguing though and convey my opinion that a scantily clad woman isn't sexist and that objectification in itself isn't inherently bad as long as people are actually brought up and raised to be decent people. To me it's the same thing as with violence in videogames, as long as you're not already a bit wonky in the head already and have been raised to know that people are in fact beings that can feel pain and pleasure as much as you can.

It's all in all a matter of opinions of course and I think another problem, as I've said in a previous post, is the implications when you throw the words sexism and racism around, that it's not okay to like it and that it shouldn't be there. I think the heart is in the right place on both sides, but people might have to realize that assuming a moral high ground isn't very productive and only deters people away from any points you try to make.
 

Doclector

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CrazyGirl17 said:
Either that was Yahtzee I just saw there, or the Nostalgia Critic started reviewing video games. C'mon, I can't be the only one who sees it...
It's like a vague assembling of popular internet critics, a combination.

A...metacritic, if you will.
 

Baralak

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Phrozenflame500 said:
Mostly correct.

But you forget that, in all three time periods, the game still gets a 9/10.
WHAT?! 9/10?! WHAt'S WRONG WITH YOU?! Can't you see it's a game of the year! Who paid you off! I knew you weren't a real journalist! I'm going to come to your house and kill you while eating red, green and blue cupcakes!
 

Thaluikhain

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Jumwa said:
I like the comic, but I think people will take the wrong lessons from it. As I see it, it's the process of gamers and game culture growing up.

At first it's all unquestioning optimism, then when you grow up a bit and start to see flaws you react far too negatively. Then later on you start to strike a balance where you can recognize and discuss the flaws with what you enjoy while still enjoying it, and heck, even deriving value out of discussing those flaws.
I like this interpretation, though I'm not sure it was the one that was intended.

Jumwa said:
Right. Jim Sterling has done a Jimquisition about how you can still enjoy problematic culture. Acknowledging problems with what you love doesn't mean you have to stop enjoying them.

...

Many of my favourite authors were racists and misogynists, but I still love the work. And far from ruining the works, it has led to some enlightening and amusing discussions.
Yeah...Lovecraft's stuff wouldn't be the same without the xenophobia, for example.
 

Leonardo Huizar

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10's is that hipster wearing the fake lenses from the PBS video games show... Should have used Sterling or Beer instead

Skyrim is one of my faves but everybody is either unhinged racist or being a socially acceptable racist
 

Johnny Novgorod

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Jumwa said:
Many of my favourite authors were racists and misogynists, but I still love the work. And far from ruining the works, it has led to some enlightening and amusing discussions.
Correction, many of your favourite authors were racist and misogynists by today's standards. Most of the -isms weren't conceptually defined as such until after the '60s. With the exception of a precious few people ahead of their time, everybody was (to a varying degree) sexist, racist and ist-ist by modern day standards.
 

Colt47

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The reason things aren't like the 90s anymore is because we got so many games we've come to the point that the only way some games sell is via low cost impulse purchases. I've practically given up on steam sales and other game related events because I only have enough time to play maybe one game through at a time, usually completing it in a month or more if I'm lucky. Sales just want us to buy games in bulk and by the time we get done with the first one on the list, something more interesting may come out.
 

moggett88

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Game journalism of the '20s - "New evidence suggests this game stole money from starving Ethiopians, used it to fund Hitler's campaign". Literally all the hyperbole ever ftw.
 

josemlopes

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Jumwa said:
thaluikhain said:
Saying a game is racist isn't automatically wrong, racism is hardly an uncommon thing.
Right. Jim Sterling has done a Jimquisition about how you can still enjoy problematic culture. Acknowledging problems with what you love doesn't mean you have to stop enjoying them.

I like the comic, but I think people will take the wrong lessons from it. As I see it, it's the process of gamers and game culture growing up.

At first it's all unquestioning optimism, then when you grow up a bit and start to see flaws you react far too negatively. Then later on you start to strike a balance where you can recognize and discuss the flaws with what you enjoy while still enjoying it, and heck, even deriving value out of discussing those flaws.

Many of my favourite authors were racists and misogynists, but I still love the work. And far from ruining the works, it has led to some enlightening and amusing discussions.
The problem now seems that everyone is trying to "fish" the hot topic out of every game, since now its sexism and all that everyone tries to find any excuse to call the game sexist
 

MCerberus

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josemlopes said:
Jumwa said:
thaluikhain said:
Saying a game is racist isn't automatically wrong, racism is hardly an uncommon thing.
Right. Jim Sterling has done a Jimquisition about how you can still enjoy problematic culture. Acknowledging problems with what you love doesn't mean you have to stop enjoying them.

I like the comic, but I think people will take the wrong lessons from it. As I see it, it's the process of gamers and game culture growing up.

At first it's all unquestioning optimism, then when you grow up a bit and start to see flaws you react far too negatively. Then later on you start to strike a balance where you can recognize and discuss the flaws with what you enjoy while still enjoying it, and heck, even deriving value out of discussing those flaws.

Many of my favourite authors were racists and misogynists, but I still love the work. And far from ruining the works, it has led to some enlightening and amusing discussions.
The problem now seems that everyone is trying to "fish" the hot topic out of every game, since now its sexism and all that everyone tries to find any excuse to call the game sexist
You know, if Other M wasn't written on what I can only assume was someone tripping on acid while watching a marathon of Leave it to Beaver, I wonder if there would be a lot less on both sides about feminism in games.
 

Jumwa

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thaluikhain said:
I like this interpretation, though I'm not sure it was the one that was intended.
It probably wasn't, but what's authorial intent count for? Not much. And I say that as a professional author!

I say "wrong lesson" in that I think it's the less valuable one. I don't think waxing nostalgic about the good ol' days is useful. Looking at things as a growing process seems more productive to me.

Johnny Novgorod said:
Correction, many of your favourite authors were racist and misogynists by today's standards. Most of the -isms weren't conceptually defined as such until after the '60s. With the exception of a precious few people ahead of their time, everybody was (to a varying degree) sexist, racist and ist-ist by modern day standards.
You're assuming quite a bit here, since I never named who my favourite authors were, but regardless, I can't pretend to see the past exactly as people saw it then. For that matter, there was no homogeneous "past", things were different and uneven from place to place, and time to time, progress has never been a straight line. It's up, down, back and forth, and our narrow view of progress based on the past century of globalization is highly misleading for looking further back.

You don't need to look back into the past to find people who were sexist or racist but who don't interpret it as such because they don't have the social framework for it. So much of the tension in today's discussion revolves around behaviour that some people find to be offensive or harmful that those doing so don't have the framework of understanding to see it as such. Likely because they grew up in families or places where there was no such connotation, need or pressure to examine your actions in that manner.

It's where the concept of "privilege" comes into play I think, though that term gets tossed around too much I believe and raises hackles now.
 

Covarr

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Today I learned that "inverted commas" is a commonly-accepted way of saying "quotation marks" outside the US.

P.S. Thanks
 

Makabriel

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Covarr said:
Today I learned that "inverted commas" is a commonly-accepted way of saying "quotation marks" outside the US.

P.S. Thanks
Yeah, I was really confused there for a minute as well. Is that what all the hip kids are calling it these days?
 

Moth_Monk

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Makabriel said:
Covarr said:
Today I learned that "inverted commas" is a commonly-accepted way of saying "quotation marks" outside the US.

P.S. Thanks
Yeah, I was really confused there for a minute as well. Is that what all the hip kids are calling it these days?
Here in the UK, they've always been called inverted commas.
 

rbstewart7263

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is that kotaku at the end!XD its true there almost as bad as the fckh8 tshirt makers as far as the industry is concerned.