The F2P joke
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What's funny is how that doesn't apply here really at all. In LoL the only things you can buy with real money are skins for characters, or characters. Characters can also buy bought with IP, the stuff you have to earn by playing the game. All the stat boosting stuff (runes/masteries) either come free by levelling, or you buy them...again with IP. The in game only currency.BloatedGuppy said:I never get tired of linking this particular cartoon, because it's always so relevant to this discussion.
"Free to Play" always, ALWAYS, means "Grease up your cornhole, here come the microtransactions". I find it hilarious that people continue to indulge in this fantasy that games going FTP have somehow failed to make the cut as subscription based titles. They're going "FTP" because there are buckets of money to be made.
LoL nailed the F2P model on the head, and has made a ton of money, while not being pay2win.
The most problematic part about the F2P idea, is a conflict of interests. What is good for the developer/publisher isn't good for the player. A publisher would want some demand of the goods in the cash shop. The most direct way to get that is to design the game so that it needs those goods. The end result is usually a game that is less fun than what it would have been with traditional funding. It's almost impossible to strike a good balance, and even when it happens the result is only almost as good as a traditionally funded game.
The best F2P games I have played always left me with the feeling that they would have been better with a subscription plan. The caveat of course is, that they may never have been able to launch and reach popularity with traditional subscriptions.
I think generous demos and micro-subscriptions is a better way to go.
The best F2P games I have played always left me with the feeling that they would have been better with a subscription plan. The caveat of course is, that they may never have been able to launch and reach popularity with traditional subscriptions.
I think generous demos and micro-subscriptions is a better way to go.
I think of City's 'F2P' as more of an extended trial. No controllers, no masterminds, a very small number of character slots (for such an alt heavy game) and no access to the invention system. Virtually all of the new content - zones, story arcs, costume pieces, powersets - is locked into the cash shop as well.Maze1125 said:
I don't begrudge them making money, and I suppose it offers an adequate experience for new players, but as a returning former player I find it very limiting - certainly compared to other F2P titles like Lord of the Rings Online and Fallen Earth.
I bought the game a year before it was F2P and that was just when the MannCo store went up. Which means if you have money you can buy the item instantly. I have spent £5 on tf2 since purchase and that was on keys for crates. However its not important to me since I dont care about useing strange weapons (special crate only wepons that keeps score of your kills with it and changes name.) I myself have found or created items and once or twice traded crap I dont want for something I do want.Alistair Crook said:
Items are given very freely and often. Just logging in can get you an item. The thing that is nice. There isnt a scale things such as "OH you see that new shotgun....money only...for 6 months." no its "Hey that new shotgun...you want it? make if with these items. Not got them? trade other people for them. Still no luck...maby youll get it randomly." not "PAY ME NOW!"
Which Star Trek online works fine its F2P you play fine, however extra stuff is money only. Such as certain ships have extra features you have to play real money however you can use the rest. Also items that are simply aesthetic.
So its runs fine. Unlike as OP which is two minutes in "you only get this. and thats it! pay me! for more!" instead F2P should work were you can play for free however paying gives bonuses or saves time.
So you can choose to pay, not make it mandatory.
Age of Conan requires you to pay for all but a few things, and requires a subscription in order to use the Alternate Advancement trees, which are required for endgame play. Everquest 2...instead of listing everything I find wrong with it, how about I just blanket it by stating that it's worse than Age of Conan.anthony87 said:
LOTRO and DDO, however, allow you to literally unlock everything, and I mean everything if you are willing to grind for it. That's including the expansions. There's not a single thing that can be bought that you can't get with a bit of time and patience. Plus, if you subscribe for even just one month, you unlock a bunch of freebies that stay unlocked even if you don't resub.
Damn, ninja'd.Frostbite3789 said:What's funny is how that doesn't apply here really at all. In LoL the only things you can buy with real money are skins for characters, or characters. Characters can also buy bought with IP, the stuff you have to earn by playing the game. All the stat boosting stuff (runes/masteries) either come free by levelling, or you buy them...again with IP. The in game only currency.BloatedGuppy said:I never get tired of linking this particular cartoon, because it's always so relevant to this discussion.
"Free to Play" always, ALWAYS, means "Grease up your cornhole, here come the microtransactions". I find it hilarious that people continue to indulge in this fantasy that games going FTP have somehow failed to make the cut as subscription based titles. They're going "FTP" because there are buckets of money to be made.
LoL nailed the F2P model on the head, and has made a ton of money, while not being pay2win.
as I was gonna say anyway though, this comic is absolutely irrelevant to the thread, LoL is a F2P model done correctly, people pay for things from the game because they -want- to, not because they -have- to. case in point, I currently have three heroes that I cycle through depending on my mood. Sivir, Tristana, and Annie, and how much have I spent on the game, not a damn penny.
Now however, back on topic, I noticed above someone mentioned Maple Story, which is made by Nexon, a company that makes exclusively F2P games, and I disagree with how they handle their micro transactions. In order to buy weapons in their game Combat Arms (And anyone who plays it, feel free to correct me if this is changed, when I played, it was still in Beta) you had to 'rent' them with money you earned from kills, now for basic weapons, this wasn't too bad, but it quickly became obvious that to support my chosen playstyle, I was either going to have to play 60 hours a week to keep up the income needed to repurchase all my equipment, or start shelling out real money, and -still- not get permanent access to the items. so I gave up and went back to WoW.
I avoided that game as soon as I saw "Sony Online Entertainment". There are plenty of F2P games out there that don't suck, just because one (or even some) are terrible, let you buy power, or require you to pay for fun doesn't mean they all follow those horrible guidelines.
I've stayed away from FP2 since they started; most, if not all I've seen are really Pay-To-Win. I can remember there was one where everything is realistically attainable without ridiculous amounts of grind and I'd considered getting it, but now I've forgotten what it was about and what it was called...
It gives you the entire original game for free, bar controllers. How is that just an "extended trial"?Sixcess said:
Yeah, the game has improved huge amounts since then, but people used to pay $15 a month just for what they're giving away entirely for free now.
Well it's the same as all business, some play fair and others are out to rape your ass, you always need to watch your backside when someone starts asking for money.
Even with Valve and the whole hat malarkey, they constantly play on peoples compulsion to unlock new shit and those items are ludicrously overpriced, you get most games on Steam cheaper then that one fucking model or better yet a color setting... just ridiculous.
Even with Valve and the whole hat malarkey, they constantly play on peoples compulsion to unlock new shit and those items are ludicrously overpriced, you get most games on Steam cheaper then that one fucking model or better yet a color setting... just ridiculous.
Indeed. I like it so much I bought extra character slots. I'm time-poor so subscriptions aren't worth my time. You don't need to buy anything if you don't want, but raising energy caps, extra character slots and a larger inventory smooths the experience. The other purchases are mostly just short cuts and fluff, some of which I'll buy, not because I need to to enjoy the game, but because I like what Cryptic has made.Adam Jensen said:
That's actually EXTREMELY false, given that any good private channel is built on an invitation only system, and even the public ones require an admin to un-silence people. What the chat restriction does is screw over the RPers on the Virtue server, that's it. There's also character slots, Incarnates, Joining a guild, AE, and pretty much anything that makes CoH a fun social experience, which is what it stands on.Maze1125 said:
Sure, it stands well on its RP/social environment, but that's all they've got going for them, gameplay is slow and boring.
While I do really like what I've played Tribes Ascend, some of the weapons and equipment in that game take an absolutely absurd amount of XP to get. The amount of XP for unlocking classes is reasonable,Waaghpowa said:
Edit: Never mind, turns out as of today's patch they lowered the prices for some a bit. My bad.
OT: Right now I'm playing LOTRO and I'm feeling a bit mixed about the F2P in that particular game. Don't get me wrong, you get the option for a subscription and you pretty much get access to everything that was in the game before the F2P change, but some of in store items are starting to get a bit worrying. You can buy better gear in the store (You can earn TP in game but you have to grind like hell to get a significant amount) and there are permanent stat boosting items you can buy. Thankfully, none of it is necessary to succeed in the game, and none of the gear is close to endgame level, but I hope Turbine stops it there. Some of the prices are a bit wonky too. 20$ for a limited edition horse? I don't care how cool that horse looks, it sure as hell ain't worth 20$.
Overall though, I find it rather unobtrusive. I haven't spent any money in the store (Not counting the subscription) other than for some cosmetic crap that I wanted.
There was a quote I stumbled on while flipping through tvtropes, it was the quote for "Allegedly Free Game"
"The joy of online strategy gaming, and online gaming in general, is defeating an opponent who was just as likely to defeat you?so how much fun is a game if, no matter how good you are, you may get owned by some kid who blew his allowance on WMDs? If you don't stand a chance in a 'free' game without shelling out, then the game ain't really free."
Dan Stapleton, "Strategy you can't buy", GamesRadar
A good F2P game shouldn't force free players to play in order to be on even footing. LoL is great in that, with the exception of cosmetics and speed/convenience, nothing is available to paying customers that isn't available to non-paying.
"The joy of online strategy gaming, and online gaming in general, is defeating an opponent who was just as likely to defeat you?so how much fun is a game if, no matter how good you are, you may get owned by some kid who blew his allowance on WMDs? If you don't stand a chance in a 'free' game without shelling out, then the game ain't really free."
Dan Stapleton, "Strategy you can't buy", GamesRadar
A good F2P game shouldn't force free players to play in order to be on even footing. LoL is great in that, with the exception of cosmetics and speed/convenience, nothing is available to paying customers that isn't available to non-paying.
[a href="http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/microtransactions"]Here's a video[/a] It was produced by people far smarter and better at game theory then I am and thus I defer you to their video.
Personally, if the game is as bad as you say it is then they screwed up and its probably going to bite them int he ass. Hopefully they get some feedback and change things, but that's not going to bring back people who now have a negative interpretation of the game.
Personally, if the game is as bad as you say it is then they screwed up and its probably going to bite them int he ass. Hopefully they get some feedback and change things, but that's not going to bring back people who now have a negative interpretation of the game.
Good that you mention that, I was going to ask if you had played lately because when the changed the whole unlock system I had a massive amount of XP to just spend on whatever I felt like. I have enough to almost buy everything for the 3 classes I prefer.AlternatePFG said:
From what I understood about my very brief time there no, several of the functions are only available to paying players only.rhizhim said:
boltstrike said:
I only agree with the speed convinience items "if" it is possible within reason to reach max level without said items. People keep siting lol and I agree whole heartedly that this is a good F2P game. They have purchasable XP and IP boosts to speed progression but I think the key there is that it is WITHIN REASON that a person can hit 30 without this help. I actually think in LoL that the skill curve of the game is will balanced in terms of time to reach 30. The last 5 levels or so are a bit of a grind but you get summoner spells like flash, which are considered mandatory for play really, at something like lvl 8, which you can feasibly get in a day if you grind it.
I have played some F2P games where you dont "have" to buy convince but in truth unless you go hardcore wow style with 400 days logged you will never reach max level without them.
I also like that in lol you can buy XP/IP boost:
Flat (get X points now, usuall)
By wins (IE for the next 10 wins you get a boost)
By Time (for the next 7 days youll get the boost)
and that these actually scale in price. IE the by time option, if you play a lot is far cheaper then the other 2 option. This means that if you do chose to play you are not forced to play this exclusively for the next week if you dont want too. Its another tactic to get people playing but it FAIR in how it does it.
How'd I know this was Tactics?
Okay people, let's put it this way: Have you ever thought of MTG and said "Yeah, that's a cheap game to get into and play!"?
Okay, you can also get the SC for the second campaign just by logging into the clone wars and free realms site (just use your SOE account you use for Tactix)
They give you at least one free booster and all 5 starter decks to mess around with (and these are the good starter decks, shoulda seen them back when I started)
You can win packs through tournaments.
The players hold pauper tourneys that are free to enter and have door prizes (generally rares, though I've seen a mythic handed out)
People complain how you can only earn 2 gold a day F2P (4 if you buy the next campaign with that free SC) The thing is, they take all of 15 minutes and that's it, you no longer even have to touch the game if you don't want to. LoL, on the other hand, how many games do you have to play to get 6300? And when was the last time they pulled out a champ under 4800?
There are people who win the first round in constructed (all you need to do to win a pack) on a regular basis who hasn't spent a dime on the game. Open the pack, sale some cards, go back and try to win more packs. I made a second account to be completely F2P on (though technically my main is too, but that was a lot of surveys filled out) and I'm doing pretty well. If you come across some of the vets in a tourney, a lot of the times they'll refund you if you lose first round. Just because a game doesn't give you everything without much effort on your part does not mean you can say it's not F2P. I mean, do you really expect to be able to beat the guys who've been playing for a year right out of the gate?
Oh, and to buy all of the campaigns, it's $15. With that, you're fresh on your way to start your own empire. You can buy a card from Walmart that, when redeemed, gives you an extra 500SC ($5)and if you get the 400 free from logins, you can buy two set 1 boosters, when a few brackets, then do some drafts (winner gets 4 packs)
Anyway, have fun complaining about most F2P games
Okay people, let's put it this way: Have you ever thought of MTG and said "Yeah, that's a cheap game to get into and play!"?
Okay, you can also get the SC for the second campaign just by logging into the clone wars and free realms site (just use your SOE account you use for Tactix)
They give you at least one free booster and all 5 starter decks to mess around with (and these are the good starter decks, shoulda seen them back when I started)
You can win packs through tournaments.
The players hold pauper tourneys that are free to enter and have door prizes (generally rares, though I've seen a mythic handed out)
People complain how you can only earn 2 gold a day F2P (4 if you buy the next campaign with that free SC) The thing is, they take all of 15 minutes and that's it, you no longer even have to touch the game if you don't want to. LoL, on the other hand, how many games do you have to play to get 6300? And when was the last time they pulled out a champ under 4800?
There are people who win the first round in constructed (all you need to do to win a pack) on a regular basis who hasn't spent a dime on the game. Open the pack, sale some cards, go back and try to win more packs. I made a second account to be completely F2P on (though technically my main is too, but that was a lot of surveys filled out) and I'm doing pretty well. If you come across some of the vets in a tourney, a lot of the times they'll refund you if you lose first round. Just because a game doesn't give you everything without much effort on your part does not mean you can say it's not F2P. I mean, do you really expect to be able to beat the guys who've been playing for a year right out of the gate?
Oh, and to buy all of the campaigns, it's $15. With that, you're fresh on your way to start your own empire. You can buy a card from Walmart that, when redeemed, gives you an extra 500SC ($5)and if you get the 400 free from logins, you can buy two set 1 boosters, when a few brackets, then do some drafts (winner gets 4 packs)
Anyway, have fun complaining about most F2P games