The F2P joke

boltstrike

New member
Nov 13, 2008
2
0
0
There was a quote I stumbled on while flipping through tvtropes, it was the quote for "Allegedly Free Game"

"The joy of online strategy gaming, and online gaming in general, is defeating an opponent who was just as likely to defeat you?so how much fun is a game if, no matter how good you are, you may get owned by some kid who blew his allowance on WMDs? If you don't stand a chance in a 'free' game without shelling out, then the game ain't really free."
Dan Stapleton, "Strategy you can't buy", GamesRadar

A good F2P game shouldn't force free players to play in order to be on even footing. LoL is great in that, with the exception of cosmetics and speed/convenience, nothing is available to paying customers that isn't available to non-paying.
 

Twilight_guy

Sight, Sound, and Mind
Nov 24, 2008
7,131
0
0
[a href="http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/microtransactions"]Here's a video[/a] It was produced by people far smarter and better at game theory then I am and thus I defer you to their video.

Personally, if the game is as bad as you say it is then they screwed up and its probably going to bite them int he ass. Hopefully they get some feedback and change things, but that's not going to bring back people who now have a negative interpretation of the game.
 

Waaghpowa

Needs more Dakka
Apr 13, 2010
3,073
0
0
AlternatePFG said:
Edit: Never mind, turns out as of today's patch they lowered the prices for some a bit. My bad.
Good that you mention that, I was going to ask if you had played lately because when the changed the whole unlock system I had a massive amount of XP to just spend on whatever I felt like. I have enough to almost buy everything for the 3 classes I prefer.
 

Talshere

New member
Jan 27, 2010
1,063
0
0
rhizhim said:
isn't it like d&d online where you have to either grind the shit out of your character in order to optain points to unlock new quest?
From what I understood about my very brief time there no, several of the functions are only available to paying players only.

boltstrike said:
There was a quote I stumbled on while flipping through tvtropes, it was the quote for "Allegedly Free Game"

"The joy of online strategy gaming, and online gaming in general, is defeating an opponent who was just as likely to defeat you?so how much fun is a game if, no matter how good you are, you may get owned by some kid who blew his allowance on WMDs? If you don't stand a chance in a 'free' game without shelling out, then the game ain't really free."
Dan Stapleton, "Strategy you can't buy", GamesRadar

A good F2P game shouldn't force free players to play in order to be on even footing. LoL is great in that, with the exception of cosmetics and speed/convenience, nothing is available to paying customers that isn't available to non-paying.

I only agree with the speed convinience items "if" it is possible within reason to reach max level without said items. People keep siting lol and I agree whole heartedly that this is a good F2P game. They have purchasable XP and IP boosts to speed progression but I think the key there is that it is WITHIN REASON that a person can hit 30 without this help. I actually think in LoL that the skill curve of the game is will balanced in terms of time to reach 30. The last 5 levels or so are a bit of a grind but you get summoner spells like flash, which are considered mandatory for play really, at something like lvl 8, which you can feasibly get in a day if you grind it.

I have played some F2P games where you dont "have" to buy convince but in truth unless you go hardcore wow style with 400 days logged you will never reach max level without them.

I also like that in lol you can buy XP/IP boost:

Flat (get X points now, usuall)
By wins (IE for the next 10 wins you get a boost)
By Time (for the next 7 days youll get the boost)


and that these actually scale in price. IE the by time option, if you play a lot is far cheaper then the other 2 option. This means that if you do chose to play you are not forced to play this exclusively for the next week if you dont want too. Its another tactic to get people playing but it FAIR in how it does it.
 

Zer_

Rocket Scientist
Feb 7, 2008
2,682
0
0
Waaghpowa said:
AlternatePFG said:
Edit: Never mind, turns out as of today's patch they lowered the prices for some a bit. My bad.
Good that you mention that, I was going to ask if you had played lately because when the changed the whole unlock system I had a massive amount of XP to just spend on whatever I felt like. I have enough to almost buy everything for the 3 classes I prefer.
I love Tribes: Ascend. I got the Pre-Order package because I like it so much.

30 bucks worth of in-game gold
30 day XP boost
VIP server access.

etc...
 

JaceArveduin

New member
Mar 14, 2011
1,952
0
0
How'd I know this was Tactics?

Okay people, let's put it this way: Have you ever thought of MTG and said "Yeah, that's a cheap game to get into and play!"?

Okay, you can also get the SC for the second campaign just by logging into the clone wars and free realms site (just use your SOE account you use for Tactix)

They give you at least one free booster and all 5 starter decks to mess around with (and these are the good starter decks, shoulda seen them back when I started)

You can win packs through tournaments.

The players hold pauper tourneys that are free to enter and have door prizes (generally rares, though I've seen a mythic handed out)

People complain how you can only earn 2 gold a day F2P (4 if you buy the next campaign with that free SC) The thing is, they take all of 15 minutes and that's it, you no longer even have to touch the game if you don't want to. LoL, on the other hand, how many games do you have to play to get 6300? And when was the last time they pulled out a champ under 4800?

There are people who win the first round in constructed (all you need to do to win a pack) on a regular basis who hasn't spent a dime on the game. Open the pack, sale some cards, go back and try to win more packs. I made a second account to be completely F2P on (though technically my main is too, but that was a lot of surveys filled out) and I'm doing pretty well. If you come across some of the vets in a tourney, a lot of the times they'll refund you if you lose first round. Just because a game doesn't give you everything without much effort on your part does not mean you can say it's not F2P. I mean, do you really expect to be able to beat the guys who've been playing for a year right out of the gate?

Oh, and to buy all of the campaigns, it's $15. With that, you're fresh on your way to start your own empire. You can buy a card from Walmart that, when redeemed, gives you an extra 500SC ($5)and if you get the 400 free from logins, you can buy two set 1 boosters, when a few brackets, then do some drafts (winner gets 4 packs)

Anyway, have fun complaining about most F2P games
 

Torrasque

New member
Aug 6, 2010
3,441
0
0
F2P is a very good money maker because of the micro-transactions. That is why a lot of games will go F2P, because their current money making model doesn't work, and they want more money.

I like F2P because I don't care about a new skin for my pixels, I don't care about the brainbuster5000 because I have the spleenspiller4000.
F2P is really bad for people who will go "oh, it's only a couple bucks" a few dozen times. Yes you are not paying for that much, but spread out over the entire length of your gaming, you spend a LOT of money.
Free to play, costs money to enjoy.

What I don't like about F2P is how a game will go F2P and all the people who played it before it was F2P will go "oh great, now the noobs and children will play it. Fucking great". This is especially notorious in TF2. I bought TF2 when Orange Box became available for mac tyvm, and I play it because it is fun. I play it MORE because it is absolutely free to play. Just because a game is free, doesn't mean kids will flood the market.
Xbox live costs money, and 8/5 people I play with are fucking children. Either that, or they take a huff of helium every time they talk into their mic. Which is every mother fucking second.
 

RoBi3.0

New member
Mar 29, 2009
709
0
0
JaceArveduin said:
How'd I know this was Tactics?

Okay people, let's put it this way: Have you ever thought of MTG and said "Yeah, that's a cheap game to get into and play!"?

Okay, you can also get the SC for the second campaign just by logging into the clone wars and free realms site (just use your SOE account you use for Tactix)

They give you at least one free booster and all 5 starter decks to mess around with (and these are the good starter decks, shoulda seen them back when I started)

You can win packs through tournaments.

The players hold pauper tourneys that are free to enter and have door prizes (generally rares, though I've seen a mythic handed out)

People complain how you can only earn 2 gold a day F2P (4 if you buy the next campaign with that free SC) The thing is, they take all of 15 minutes and that's it, you no longer even have to touch the game if you don't want to. LoL, on the other hand, how many games do you have to play to get 6300? And when was the last time they pulled out a champ under 4800?

There are people who win the first round in constructed (all you need to do to win a pack) on a regular basis who hasn't spent a dime on the game. Open the pack, sale some cards, go back and try to win more packs. I made a second account to be completely F2P on (though technically my main is too, but that was a lot of surveys filled out) and I'm doing pretty well. If you come across some of the vets in a tourney, a lot of the times they'll refund you if you lose first round. Just because a game doesn't give you everything without much effort on your part does not mean you can say it's not F2P. I mean, do you really expect to be able to beat the guys who've been playing for a year right out of the gate?

Oh, and to buy all of the campaigns, it's $15. With that, you're fresh on your way to start your own empire. You can buy a card from Walmart that, when redeemed, gives you an extra 500SC ($5)and if you get the 400 free from logins, you can buy two set 1 boosters, when a few brackets, then do some drafts (winner gets 4 packs)

Anyway, have fun complaining about most F2P games
I agree. Magic the Gathering is not and never will be a poor mans game. That goes for almost all incarnations of it. Wizards in their build up to launch was very up front about their intention to model the pricing structure after their TCG.

F2p has never meant "play 100% of this game for free", if those are your expectations then you will be sadly mistaken.
 

JaceArveduin

New member
Mar 14, 2011
1,952
0
0
RoBi3.0 said:
I agree. Magic the Gathering is not and never will be a poor mans game. That goes for almost all incarnations of it. Wizards in their build up to launch was very up front about their intention to model the pricing structure after their TCG.

F2p has never meant "play 100% of this game for free", if those are your expectations then you will be sadly mistaken.
Snip out my big post first:

Well, there are some, it's just they take a LOT of grinding to true F2P. LOTRO's a good example, while you can do it, it's 5-25 or so per deed. The last expansion costs 3k TP
 

Brendan Matthews

New member
Feb 10, 2012
1
0
0
F2P isn't the same thing in the eyes of developers and gamers, to the developers it means, "Ok we aren't charging you monthly to get into and spend time in the game, that's all we really need to allow."

For gamers it's more along the lines of; "Awesome F2P." That's pretty much all the consideration of F2P I go through before playing or not playing a game based on my personal tastes.

"OT: Right now I'm playing LOTRO and I'm feeling a bit mixed about the F2P in that particular game. Don't get me wrong, you get the option for a subscription and you pretty much get access to everything that was in the game before the F2P change, but some of in store items are starting to get a bit worrying. You can buy better gear in the store (You can earn TP in game but you have to grind like hell to get a significant amount) and there are permanent stat boosting items you can buy. Thankfully, none of it is necessary to succeed in the game, and none of the gear is close to endgame level, but I hope Turbine stops it there. Some of the prices are a bit wonky too. 20$ for a limited edition horse? I don't care how cool that horse looks, it sure as hell ain't worth 20$." Quoted: AlternateFPG

The gear is a bullcrap call made by Turbine that they'll hopefully fix, however, the mounts are actually better than a normal horse in most cases, very few of the mounts in LoTRO have the +68% run speed and 250HP mounts that the store offers, it is doable to get one however. In fact all of the mounts apart from two I think haven't been available to get ingame without paying money.
 

Battleaxx90

New member
Jul 8, 2011
483
0
0
See, this is why I like Spiral Knights. It's a F2P game with microtransactions, but if you're good at the game, you can get all the best gear without having to pay a single cent in real cash. It just takes a bit longer.

A while back, Extra Credits did a video on Microtransactions, and Spiral Knights hits every single dang one of their positive points and none of the negative ones. Here, lemme go find the video:

 

Rivenart

New member
Feb 1, 2012
33
0
0
Lotro is probally one of the worst models I've seen for Free to play, it's not so much F2P, or Pay to win but Pay per space moved. They nickel and dime you so much, as I browsed though the catalogue I just realised how insanely expensive this free game is, you'd have to buy bag slots of you'd be forever juggling the 4 free item slots (not bag slots), you'd probally want a bank then...more money, oh and lets not forget skills or recipes so you can make use of these items you find, but why bother paying for 10 things needed to make a sword when you could just buy a better one right off the bat. The whole thing actually ends up working against basic gameplay in every single possible way and even works against buying certain items which is just bad. Not that it matters the game is so devoid of life I left pretty quick.

At least with alot of Apple f2p games they end up more like trials. But even with games like Dragonranch (or farm or island or whatever it was) I played alot for free and then spent some money after experiencing a chunk of gameplay and albiet simplistic, enjoyment. Besides there so so much there that is dirt cheap, reduced regularly or out right free, it's not as bad as everyone loves to make out, don't see apple telling us to buy accessories for DLC, no just people using apples market to do that by selling off mini games and apps though it that tie into main games.
 

Onegigapwn

New member
Jan 7, 2012
17
0
0
It's not the whole buying power thing so much as it is the lack of ownership. That's probably the reason why I don't like normal MMOs either.
 

RoBi3.0

New member
Mar 29, 2009
709
0
0
JaceArveduin said:
RoBi3.0 said:
I agree. Magic the Gathering is not and never will be a poor mans game. That goes for almost all incarnations of it. Wizards in their build up to launch was very up front about their intention to model the pricing structure after their TCG.

F2p has never meant "play 100% of this game for free", if those are your expectations then you will be sadly mistaken.
Snip out my big post first:

Well, there are some, it's just they take a LOT of grinding to true F2P. LOTRO's a good example, while you can do it, it's 5-25 or so per deed. The last expansion costs 3k TP
I am very familiar with the concept of grinding, especially in Turbine games. I wrote rather extensively about it on the DDO website when it first switched to F2p. That being said it is something that the majority of the gaming population wont do as the cost vs reward is very low and it is far easier to pay the cash.

I suppose my statement would have been more accurate had I said. "play 100% of this game for free easily", but at that point we are just arguing of word choice.
 

JaceArveduin

New member
Mar 14, 2011
1,952
0
0
Rivenart said:
Lotro is probally one of the worst models I've seen for Free to play, it's not so much F2P, or Pay to win but Pay per space moved. They nickel and dime you so much, as I browsed though the catalogue I just realised how insanely expensive this free game is, you'd have to buy bag slots of you'd be forever juggling the 4 free item slots (not bag slots), you'd probally want a bank then...more money, oh and lets not forget skills or recipes so you can make use of these items you find, but why bother paying for 10 things needed to make a sword when you could just buy a better one right off the bat. The whole thing actually ends up working against basic gameplay in every single possible way and even works against buying certain items which is just bad. Not that it matters the game is so devoid of life I left pretty quick.

At least with alot of Apple f2p games they end up more like trials. But even with games like Dragonranch (or farm or island or whatever it was) I played alot for free and then spent some money after experiencing a chunk of gameplay and albiet simplistic, enjoyment. Besides there so so much there that is dirt cheap, reduced regularly or out right free, it's not as bad as everyone loves to make out, don't see apple telling us to buy accessories for DLC, no just people using apples market to do that by selling off mini games and apps though it that tie into main games.
Wait, 4 free item slots? You get 3 bags for free, 15 slots a pop. They also let you get to roughly 30 before you start needing quest packs, though you can level up without them. There's also the fact you get a lot of stuff unlocked permanently. As for the gear, the OP stuff is crafted, end of story, and in a good kin, its piss easy to get good gear until about 38 or so, then you might have to start getting the mats or paying a small fee since the mats ain't cheap. Devoid of life? Not really, all depends on the server. If you want soemthing full of life, join one of the RP servers, all of the RP'ers tend to hang out around Bree and gives the area a more lived in feeling. On other servers, most people are hanging out around Galtrev or the 21st hall looking for groups. As I said, it's $15, I'm sure most people here have paid four times that on a game they hadn't got to play yet and turned out to be shit.
 

JaceArveduin

New member
Mar 14, 2011
1,952
0
0
RoBi3.0 said:
I am very familiar with the concept of grinding, especially in Turbine games. I wrote rather extensively about it on the DDO website when it first switched to F2p. That being said it is something that the majority of the gaming population wont do as the cost vs reward is very low and it is far easier to pay the cash.

I suppose my statement would have been more accurate had I said. "play 100% of this game for free easily", but at that point we are just arguing of word choice.
Ah, I see. LOTRO's is actually a bit easier than DDO's from what I've seen, mainly because there's quite a few that are just finding landmarks n such, or flowers in the Old Forest. But yeah, they either let ya grind it out, or do it easily, which I think is a fairly decent model. Times may need to be tweaked, but paying for conveniences doesn't bother me. And of course, after the few times I've talked to their CS, I've damn near become a fanboy.
 

bpm195

New member
May 21, 2008
288
0
0
Maze1125 said:
City of Heroes is a great example of F2P.
You get everything the game had a its original subscriber only launch, and a whole lot more, without paying a penny. The worst you lose from not paying anything is the ability to use all the chat features, but that's only to stop spammers.

What you have to pay for are extra bonuses that don't matter a whole lot at all, and they were all added later on, so aren't necessary for the core game at all.
City of Heroes locks the invention system and market for free players, which is a serious case of play to win. SO'd and HO'd builds are miles behind IO'd builds. If you're not big on min maxing it's easy to dismiss the lack of IOs as a small thing since most of the difficulty curve isn't built for IO'd builds. That doesn't change that IO'd characters can get ridiculously more powerful.
 

Syzygy23

New member
Sep 20, 2010
824
0
0
Alistair Crook said:
I call your (well-aimed and well deserved) rant and raise you team fortress. At least their problem is more tangible than the F2P features. Or so I am told. I personally quite like it as a whole, but meh.
Eh, I wouldn't really lump TF2 in there. Even a complete newb can kick ass with only the vanilla weapons if they have even a little bit of shooter experience.

As for the OP and his Magic Tactics experience, I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. My biggest problem with that game was it's terrible optimization for the PC (This is doubly retarded since this thing started OUT, if not remains soley on, the PC) I can run Skyrim at Med-High settings no sweat on my laptop yet Magic Tactics lags like a ***** at ANY setting and STILL manages to look ugly as sin (Especially the terrible, horrible, phoned in particle effects)
 

Rivenart

New member
Feb 1, 2012
33
0
0
JaceArveduin said:
Wait, 4 free item slots? You get 3 bags for free, 15 slots a pop. They also let you get to roughly 30 before you start needing quest packs, though you can level up without them. There's also the fact you get a lot of stuff unlocked permanently. As for the gear, the OP stuff is crafted, end of story, and in a good kin, its piss easy to get good gear until about 38 or so, then you might have to start getting the mats or paying a small fee since the mats ain't cheap. Devoid of life? Not really, all depends on the server. If you want soemthing full of life, join one of the RP servers, all of the RP'ers tend to hang out around Bree and gives the area a more lived in feeling. On other servers, most people are hanging out around Galtrev or the 21st hall looking for groups. As I said, it's $15, I'm sure most people here have paid four times that on a game they hadn't got to play yet and turned out to be shit.
Either they've changed the F2P model again since I've play or what you're talking about is the many optional (and more exspensive then average, yet still leaving you with cordoned off aspects) subscription fees. Which again on a whole only ends up working against any semblence of a whole flowing in one direction experience. The way it is now many servers will remain empty as yet to decide to pay players enter a unpopulated server, see high priced bag slots, a large variety of unbalanced and exspensive recipes and the alternitive to subscribe still leaving them with a less then full experience at a high cost. I have a sneaking suspition that much of this is down to high license costs. But regardless of that LotRO is guilty of most of what that extra credits video points out, the whole thing is jagged and just feels like it frequently tries to work against the flow.

So many other models will sell you a average to decent weapon for real money that actually levels up with you, why would I pick the system that sells me a limited use recipe that will fast become outdated.

Obviously you're a fan, fair enough for you, but to me the whole experience came across as bad, I felt so boxed in by wall after wall with price tags on it put me off, there was no chance to be sucked in and tempted to spend money on it, not like I'm immune from these models, god no, I'm a sucker for it tbh, but the game needs to give me something first, I need to feel that my money will get me somewhere, not just to "needing" to spend more.
 

JaceArveduin

New member
Mar 14, 2011
1,952
0
0
Rivenart said:
Dude, I think you're thinking of a different game, they've only got one sub, and you pay in 1, 3 or 12 month increments iirc, each one knocking the monthly price down.

Then again, it might be that you've been smoking some damn good stuff recently.

Syzygy23 said:
As for the OP and his Magic Tactics experience, I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. My biggest problem with that game was it's terrible optimization for the PC (This is doubly retarded since this thing started OUT, if not remains soley on, the PC)
Ah, that could be it, just today while one of the devs was in the PUG lobby, he said the game does not play nicely with laptops or integrated graphics. It was also made to be co-released on PS3, as you can tell by the interface, but SOE's been workin with fewer people than normal for some time now.