The F2P joke

[Torrasque]

F2P is a very good money maker because of the micro-transactions. That is why a lot of games will go F2P, because their current money making model doesn't work, and they want more money.

I like F2P because I don't care about a new skin for my pixels, I don't care about the brainbuster5000 because I have the spleenspiller4000.
F2P is really bad for people who will go "oh, it's only a couple bucks" a few dozen times. Yes you are not paying for that much, but spread out over the entire length of your gaming, you spend a LOT of money.
Free to play, costs money to enjoy.

What I don't like about F2P is how a game will go F2P and all the people who played it before it was F2P will go "oh great, now the noobs and children will play it. Fucking great". This is especially notorious in TF2. I bought TF2 when Orange Box became available for mac tyvm, and I play it because it is fun. I play it MORE because it is absolutely free to play. Just because a game is free, doesn't mean kids will flood the market.
Xbox live costs money, and 8/5 people I play with are fucking children. Either that, or they take a huff of helium every time they talk into their mic. Which is every mother fucking second.

 

[RoBi3.0]

How'd I know this was Tactics?

Okay people, let's put it this way: Have you ever thought of MTG and said "Yeah, that's a cheap game to get into and play!"?

Okay, you can also get the SC for the second campaign just by logging into the clone wars and free realms site (just use your SOE account you use for Tactix)

They give you at least one free booster and all 5 starter decks to mess around with (and these are the good starter decks, shoulda seen them back when I started)

You can win packs through tournaments.

The players hold pauper tourneys that are free to enter and have door prizes (generally rares, though I've seen a mythic handed out)

People complain how you can only earn 2 gold a day F2P (4 if you buy the next campaign with that free SC) The thing is, they take all of 15 minutes and that's it, you no longer even have to touch the game if you don't want to. LoL, on the other hand, how many games do you have to play to get 6300? And when was the last time they pulled out a champ under 4800?

There are people who win the first round in constructed (all you need to do to win a pack) on a regular basis who hasn't spent a dime on the game. Open the pack, sale some cards, go back and try to win more packs. I made a second account to be completely F2P on (though technically my main is too, but that was a lot of surveys filled out) and I'm doing pretty well. If you come across some of the vets in a tourney, a lot of the times they'll refund you if you lose first round. Just because a game doesn't give you everything without much effort on your part does not mean you can say it's not F2P. I mean, do you really expect to be able to beat the guys who've been playing for a year right out of the gate?

Oh, and to buy all of the campaigns, it's $15. With that, you're fresh on your way to start your own empire. You can buy a card from Walmart that, when redeemed, gives you an extra 500SC ($5)and if you get the 400 free from logins, you can buy two set 1 boosters, when a few brackets, then do some drafts (winner gets 4 packs)

Anyway, have fun complaining about most F2P games

I agree. Magic the Gathering is not and never will be a poor mans game. That goes for almost all incarnations of it. Wizards in their build up to launch was very up front about their intention to model the pricing structure after their TCG.

F2p has never meant "play 100% of this game for free", if those are your expectations then you will be sadly mistaken.

 

[JaceArveduin]

I agree. Magic the Gathering is not and never will be a poor mans game. That goes for almost all incarnations of it. Wizards in their build up to launch was very up front about their intention to model the pricing structure after their TCG.

F2p has never meant "play 100% of this game for free", if those are your expectations then you will be sadly mistaken.

Snip out my big post first:

Well, there are some, it's just they take a LOT of grinding to true F2P. LOTRO's a good example, while you can do it, it's 5-25 or so per deed. The last expansion costs 3k TP

 

[Brendan Matthews]

F2P isn't the same thing in the eyes of developers and gamers, to the developers it means, "Ok we aren't charging you monthly to get into and spend time in the game, that's all we really need to allow."

For gamers it's more along the lines of; "Awesome F2P." That's pretty much all the consideration of F2P I go through before playing or not playing a game based on my personal tastes.

"OT: Right now I'm playing LOTRO and I'm feeling a bit mixed about the F2P in that particular game. Don't get me wrong, you get the option for a subscription and you pretty much get access to everything that was in the game before the F2P change, but some of in store items are starting to get a bit worrying. You can buy better gear in the store (You can earn TP in game but you have to grind like hell to get a significant amount) and there are permanent stat boosting items you can buy. Thankfully, none of it is necessary to succeed in the game, and none of the gear is close to endgame level, but I hope Turbine stops it there. Some of the prices are a bit wonky too. 20$ for a limited edition horse? I don't care how cool that horse looks, it sure as hell ain't worth 20$." Quoted: AlternateFPG

The gear is a bullcrap call made by Turbine that they'll hopefully fix, however, the mounts are actually better than a normal horse in most cases, very few of the mounts in LoTRO have the +68% run speed and 250HP mounts that the store offers, it is doable to get one however. In fact all of the mounts apart from two I think haven't been available to get ingame without paying money.

 

[Battleaxx90]

See, this is why I like Spiral Knights. It's a F2P game with microtransactions, but if you're good at the game, you can get all the best gear without having to pay a single cent in real cash. It just takes a bit longer.

A while back, Extra Credits did a video on Microtransactions, and Spiral Knights hits every single dang one of their positive points and none of the negative ones. Here, lemme go find the video:

 

[Rivenart]

Lotro is probally one of the worst models I've seen for Free to play, it's not so much F2P, or Pay to win but Pay per space moved. They nickel and dime you so much, as I browsed though the catalogue I just realised how insanely expensive this free game is, you'd have to buy bag slots of you'd be forever juggling the 4 free item slots (not bag slots), you'd probally want a bank then...more money, oh and lets not forget skills or recipes so you can make use of these items you find, but why bother paying for 10 things needed to make a sword when you could just buy a better one right off the bat. The whole thing actually ends up working against basic gameplay in every single possible way and even works against buying certain items which is just bad. Not that it matters the game is so devoid of life I left pretty quick.

At least with alot of Apple f2p games they end up more like trials. But even with games like Dragonranch (or farm or island or whatever it was) I played alot for free and then spent some money after experiencing a chunk of gameplay and albiet simplistic, enjoyment. Besides there so so much there that is dirt cheap, reduced regularly or out right free, it's not as bad as everyone loves to make out, don't see apple telling us to buy accessories for DLC, no just people using apples market to do that by selling off mini games and apps though it that tie into main games.

 

[Onegigapwn]

It's not the whole buying power thing so much as it is the lack of ownership. That's probably the reason why I don't like normal MMOs either.

 

[RoBi3.0]

I agree. Magic the Gathering is not and never will be a poor mans game. That goes for almost all incarnations of it. Wizards in their build up to launch was very up front about their intention to model the pricing structure after their TCG.

F2p has never meant "play 100% of this game for free", if those are your expectations then you will be sadly mistaken.

Snip out my big post first:

Well, there are some, it's just they take a LOT of grinding to true F2P. LOTRO's a good example, while you can do it, it's 5-25 or so per deed. The last expansion costs 3k TP

I am very familiar with the concept of grinding, especially in Turbine games. I wrote rather extensively about it on the DDO website when it first switched to F2p. That being said it is something that the majority of the gaming population wont do as the cost vs reward is very low and it is far easier to pay the cash.

I suppose my statement would have been more accurate had I said. "play 100% of this game for free easily", but at that point we are just arguing of word choice.

 

[JaceArveduin]

Lotro is probally one of the worst models I've seen for Free to play, it's not so much F2P, or Pay to win but Pay per space moved. They nickel and dime you so much, as I browsed though the catalogue I just realised how insanely expensive this free game is, you'd have to buy bag slots of you'd be forever juggling the 4 free item slots (not bag slots), you'd probally want a bank then...more money, oh and lets not forget skills or recipes so you can make use of these items you find, but why bother paying for 10 things needed to make a sword when you could just buy a better one right off the bat. The whole thing actually ends up working against basic gameplay in every single possible way and even works against buying certain items which is just bad. Not that it matters the game is so devoid of life I left pretty quick.

At least with alot of Apple f2p games they end up more like trials. But even with games like Dragonranch (or farm or island or whatever it was) I played alot for free and then spent some money after experiencing a chunk of gameplay and albiet simplistic, enjoyment. Besides there so so much there that is dirt cheap, reduced regularly or out right free, it's not as bad as everyone loves to make out, don't see apple telling us to buy accessories for DLC, no just people using apples market to do that by selling off mini games and apps though it that tie into main games.

Wait, 4 free item slots? You get 3 bags for free, 15 slots a pop. They also let you get to roughly 30 before you start needing quest packs, though you can level up without them. There's also the fact you get a lot of stuff unlocked permanently. As for the gear, the OP stuff is crafted, end of story, and in a good kin, its piss easy to get good gear until about 38 or so, then you might have to start getting the mats or paying a small fee since the mats ain't cheap. Devoid of life? Not really, all depends on the server. If you want soemthing full of life, join one of the RP servers, all of the RP'ers tend to hang out around Bree and gives the area a more lived in feeling. On other servers, most people are hanging out around Galtrev or the 21st hall looking for groups. As I said, it's $15, I'm sure most people here have paid four times that on a game they hadn't got to play yet and turned out to be shit.

 

[JaceArveduin]

I am very familiar with the concept of grinding, especially in Turbine games. I wrote rather extensively about it on the DDO website when it first switched to F2p. That being said it is something that the majority of the gaming population wont do as the cost vs reward is very low and it is far easier to pay the cash.

I suppose my statement would have been more accurate had I said. "play 100% of this game for free easily", but at that point we are just arguing of word choice.

Ah, I see. LOTRO's is actually a bit easier than DDO's from what I've seen, mainly because there's quite a few that are just finding landmarks n such, or flowers in the Old Forest. But yeah, they either let ya grind it out, or do it easily, which I think is a fairly decent model. Times may need to be tweaked, but paying for conveniences doesn't bother me. And of course, after the few times I've talked to their CS, I've damn near become a fanboy.

 

[bpm195]

City of Heroes is a great example of F2P.
You get everything the game had a its original subscriber only launch, and a whole lot more, without paying a penny. The worst you lose from not paying anything is the ability to use all the chat features, but that's only to stop spammers.

What you have to pay for are extra bonuses that don't matter a whole lot at all, and they were all added later on, so aren't necessary for the core game at all.

City of Heroes locks the invention system and market for free players, which is a serious case of play to win. SO'd and HO'd builds are miles behind IO'd builds. If you're not big on min maxing it's easy to dismiss the lack of IOs as a small thing since most of the difficulty curve isn't built for IO'd builds. That doesn't change that IO'd characters can get ridiculously more powerful.

 

[Syzygy23]

I call your (well-aimed and well deserved) rant and raise you team fortress. At least their problem is more tangible than the F2P features. Or so I am told. I personally quite like it as a whole, but meh.

Eh, I wouldn't really lump TF2 in there. Even a complete newb can kick ass with only the vanilla weapons if they have even a little bit of shooter experience.

As for the OP and his Magic Tactics experience, I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. My biggest problem with that game was it's terrible optimization for the PC (This is doubly retarded since this thing started OUT, if not remains soley on, the PC) I can run Skyrim at Med-High settings no sweat on my laptop yet Magic Tactics lags like a ***** at ANY setting and STILL manages to look ugly as sin (Especially the terrible, horrible, phoned in particle effects)

 

[Rivenart]

Wait, 4 free item slots? You get 3 bags for free, 15 slots a pop. They also let you get to roughly 30 before you start needing quest packs, though you can level up without them. There's also the fact you get a lot of stuff unlocked permanently. As for the gear, the OP stuff is crafted, end of story, and in a good kin, its piss easy to get good gear until about 38 or so, then you might have to start getting the mats or paying a small fee since the mats ain't cheap. Devoid of life? Not really, all depends on the server. If you want soemthing full of life, join one of the RP servers, all of the RP'ers tend to hang out around Bree and gives the area a more lived in feeling. On other servers, most people are hanging out around Galtrev or the 21st hall looking for groups. As I said, it's $15, I'm sure most people here have paid four times that on a game they hadn't got to play yet and turned out to be shit.

Either they've changed the F2P model again since I've play or what you're talking about is the many optional (and more exspensive then average, yet still leaving you with cordoned off aspects) subscription fees. Which again on a whole only ends up working against any semblence of a whole flowing in one direction experience. The way it is now many servers will remain empty as yet to decide to pay players enter a unpopulated server, see high priced bag slots, a large variety of unbalanced and exspensive recipes and the alternitive to subscribe still leaving them with a less then full experience at a high cost. I have a sneaking suspition that much of this is down to high license costs. But regardless of that LotRO is guilty of most of what that extra credits video points out, the whole thing is jagged and just feels like it frequently tries to work against the flow.

So many other models will sell you a average to decent weapon for real money that actually levels up with you, why would I pick the system that sells me a limited use recipe that will fast become outdated.

Obviously you're a fan, fair enough for you, but to me the whole experience came across as bad, I felt so boxed in by wall after wall with price tags on it put me off, there was no chance to be sucked in and tempted to spend money on it, not like I'm immune from these models, god no, I'm a sucker for it tbh, but the game needs to give me something first, I need to feel that my money will get me somewhere, not just to "needing" to spend more.

 

[JaceArveduin]

snip

Dude, I think you're thinking of a different game, they've only got one sub, and you pay in 1, 3 or 12 month increments iirc, each one knocking the monthly price down.

Then again, it might be that you've been smoking some damn good stuff recently.

As for the OP and his Magic Tactics experience, I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. My biggest problem with that game was it's terrible optimization for the PC (This is doubly retarded since this thing started OUT, if not remains soley on, the PC)

Ah, that could be it, just today while one of the devs was in the PUG lobby, he said the game does not play nicely with laptops or integrated graphics. It was also made to be co-released on PS3, as you can tell by the interface, but SOE's been workin with fewer people than normal for some time now.

 

[Guilherme Zoldan]

If theres one thing I cant criticize with LoL is that it does the microtransactions model really well. The store is unobtrusive and completely unescessary for enjoying the game, everything you buy with real money is cosmetic or just convenience.
Im really happy to see a F2P system that doesnt try to screw over the players being successfull, maybe it will lead to more developers using it.

 

[Rivenart]

snip

Dude, I think you're thinking of a different game, they've only got one sub, and you pay in 1, 3 or 12 month increments iirc, each one knocking the monthly price down.

Then again, it might be that you've been smoking some damn good stuff recently.

As for the OP and his Magic Tactics experience, I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. My biggest problem with that game was it's terrible optimization for the PC (This is doubly retarded since this thing started OUT, if not remains soley on, the PC)

Ah, that could be it, just today while one of the devs was in the PUG lobby, he said the game does not play nicely with laptops or integrated graphics. It was also made to be co-released on PS3, as you can tell by the interface, but SOE's been workin with fewer people than normal for some time now.

You had to get petty over it didn't you, god forbid someone not like the game you do. I tried to be decent about it saying that's just my opinion/experience.

But if you are going to get petty how about you get you're facts straight?

There's 3 tiers, 2 if you discount free as one of the models. The VIP and The Premium subscriptions. I think it you who has been smoking something considering I remember more facts about the game I didn't like and played about 1 year ago, then you do as a supposed fan.

 

[Maze1125]

The worst you lose from not paying anything is the ability to use all the chat features, but that's only to stop spammers.

That's actually EXTREMELY false, given that any good private channel is built on an invitation only system, and even the public ones require an admin to un-silence people.

The key point would be more that public channels both a) are public for a good reason and b) require that an admin silences someone in the first place.

What the chat restriction does is screw over the RPers on the Virtue server, that's it.

Yes, you're right, they added F2P chat restrictions just to piss off RPers, because that would be a good financial move for the game...
It certainly wasn't because they had a large body of experience of how much spammers tried to exploit a free system from the trial system they had in place before. Nah, it's just to piss you off.

There's also character slots, Incarnates, Joining a guild, AE, and pretty much anything that makes CoH a fun social experience, which is what it stands on.

The vast majority of which was added later in the game, nothing necessary, just nice perks that were added as the game progressed.

Again, what people get for free now, is pretty much exactly what people used to pay $15 a month for and more.

Sure, it stands well on its RP/social environment, but that's all they've got going for them, gameplay is slow and boring.

I think you'll find most people who play City of Heroes disagree with you there. Its combat system is far more fast paced than most MMORPGs.

City of Heroes is a great example of F2P.
You get everything the game had a its original subscriber only launch, and a whole lot more, without paying a penny. The worst you lose from not paying anything is the ability to use all the chat features, but that's only to stop spammers.

What you have to pay for are extra bonuses that don't matter a whole lot at all, and they were all added later on, so aren't necessary for the core game at all.

City of Heroes locks the invention system and market for free players, which is a serious case of play to win. SO'd and HO'd builds are miles behind IO'd builds. If you're not big on min maxing it's easy to dismiss the lack of IOs as a small thing since most of the difficulty curve isn't built for IO'd builds. That doesn't change that IO'd characters can get ridiculously more powerful.

And? Even if that classes as "pay 2 win" (which is a concept that people who use the phrase almost never clearly define, and when they do, the definition differs from person to person) so what? Why is a "pay 2 win" always bad? It used to be that you had to pay $15 a month to access the game at all. So why is it bad that now you can access almost all of the game for free and only pay for the more superfluous parts?

Seriously, you can play all the way to max level without paying a penny, and all the zones and missions are there for you to do so, bar 1 mission line that was added when the game went F2P. They don't even stunt the exp gain for free players like a lot of F2P games do. Yet you nitpick over the invention system that the game never even had at the start?

 

[DazZ.]

Good F2P model: Lord of the Rings Online

Doesn't it lock you out after a certain amount of quests and really to get more zones you have to pay?

League of Legends gets it exactly right, cosmetics only needed money for and with them starting to give low level players free RP money at level 3 its getting even better.

 

[JaceArveduin]

You had to get petty over it didn't you, god forbid someone not like the game you do. I tried to be decent about it saying that's just my opinion/experience.

But if you are going to get petty how about you get you're facts straight?

There's 3 tiers, 2 if you discount free as one of the models. The VIP and The Premium subscriptions. I think it you who has been smoking something considering I remember more facts about the game I didn't like and played about 1 year ago, then you do as a supposed fan.

Premium isn't a subscription ner vod, you buy some TP or a single month of VIP, and your account is premium for life. People who played the game before F2P are automatically premium. I was never bothered that you didn't like the game, what bothers me is when you butcher the facts about said game. Shall I find a useful link?
http://www.lotro.com/free.php?
Go over to the Details tab, it says "Inventory: 3 bags (an purchase more)

http://support.turbine.com/link/portal/24001/24001/Article/736/How-do-I-upgrade-my-Free-LOTRO-subscription-to-Premium-or-VIP-status-How-do-I-subscribe-to-LOTRO-VIP
"After your first purchase in the LOTRO Store, your Free account is permanently upgraded to Premium!

All Premium players receive everything Free players get, plus:

Additional character slot (3 vs 1 per server. More can be purchased)
Gold limit increase (5 gold vs 2)
Faster login"

 

[Sixcess]

I think of City's 'F2P' as more of an extended trial.

It gives you the entire original game for free, bar controllers. How is that just an "extended trial"?

Yeah, the game has improved huge amounts since then, but people used to pay $15 a month just for what they're giving away entirely for free now.

Yes, I'm one of those who did.

My point is that City's F2P omits some important gameplay mechanics - IOs and Incarnates being the big ones - as well as two archetypes and virtually all of the new content. I'm not saying it's bad, but what I am saying is that compared to other F2P MMOs it's not very good. It's the difference between a F2P where you want to spend some money and a F2P where you have to.