The Felicia Day/Destructoid situation

[Eyelicker]

I think his assumption that she must be a booth babe because she is a woman involved with gaming and general geek stuff is pretty damn sexist.

She isn't even that dolled up most of the time.

The assumption wasn't "she is a woman in gaming ergo can be nothing more than a booth babe"

It was "she is an attractive woman ergo she receives a disproportionate amount of attention for what she has done and is milking it"

Sex plays a part in the assumption, but it's not "sexist".

That still sounds sexist to me :/ The bottom line of her worth is 'she is an attractive woman' in that statement. It ignores any other worth she may have just based on her appearance and gender.

So yeah still sexist.

It's not inherently sexist though. It's essentially calling her out for using gender and looks as a popularity tool. It's the same way that it's not racist to call out a black person who claims racism if something doesn't go their way (race is involved in the issue, but it's not "racist")

She is an attractive woman isn't meant as the bottom line of her value, just a statement of one thing she is for the purpose of explaining the train of thought.

 

[redmoretrout]

Who is Felicia Day? I did an IMDB search and she just seems to be an actress in a few B movies and a voice actress in a few games.

 

[Right Hook]

But quite frankly...isn't he right? What of substance has she contributed to the gaming medium?

I tend to agree with his statement, at least from what I know of her. He's still out of line because she shouldn't have to, a lot of people get into cozy position simply from the way they look or act and while that might be annoying for some of the more hard workers out there, it doesn't make what they did any less valid. As long as there is a fanbase for this sort of thing, why wouldn't you go for it? Besides what has this guy done that is so special anyway, it just sounds like a case of jealousy to me. He shouldn't have been fired for what he said, people should be allowed to express their opinions but I believe his opinion is not really solid in any way. Never liked Day, don't know what it is about her, she just gets on my nerves.

 

[Macgyvercas]

She did "The Guild". She automatically gets a lifetime supply of free passes.

 

[Zeraki]

The guy was being completely unprofessional(and a prick), and Destructoid rightfully didn't want to be associated with him. It's as simple as that. By acting the way he did--even if it was on his "Personal" Twitter account--he was still a part of the company and therefore made them look bad by association.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I think his assumption that she must be a booth babe because she is a woman involved with gaming and general geek stuff is pretty damn sexist.

She isn't even that dolled up most of the time.

The assumption wasn't "she is a woman in gaming ergo can be nothing more than a booth babe"

It was "she is an attractive woman ergo she receives a disproportionate amount of attention for what she has done and is milking it"

Sex plays a part in the assumption, but it's not "sexist".

That still sounds sexist to me :/ The bottom line of her worth is 'she is an attractive woman' in that statement. It ignores any other worth she may have just based on her appearance and gender.

So yeah still sexist.

It's not inherently sexist though. It's essentially calling her out for using gender and looks as a popularity tool. It's the same way that it's not racist to call out a black person who claims racism if something doesn't go their way (race is involved in the issue, but it's not "racist")

She is an attractive woman isn't meant as the bottom line of her value, just a statement of one thing she is for the purpose of explaining the train of thought.

Yeah but it's the assumption that it's the only reason why she is popular or that she exists in gaming that is the problem.

Rather than the fact she is talented, likable, a good representative for real female gamers and she knows what she is talking about.

His very assumption that because she is a woman she is some vacuous booth babe there to exploit guys is sexist.

If a guy said to me 'The only reason you have a job writing with that gaming website is because you are an attractive woman' I would take that as monstrously sexist. (and then get his eyes checked).

 

[Woodsey]

His Twitter account seems completely open, so I don't think there's much room to claim it was a private opinion.

Would I have fired him? Probably not, but he wouldn't go without some sort of punishment. However, since his job is to interact with members of the industry, and since he's now made himself look like someone incapable of doing that and made them look like they can't hire someone who can do so professionally, it does reflect poorly on them.

You'll notice most other gaming journalists exhibit a degree of professionalism, even if it's clear they think someone is irrelevant/stupid/a twat/whatever else.

They don't just walk up to people (figuratively) and demand they justify their own existence.

I do, however, think the rather high-profile reaction has somewhat overdone it.

Also: Adam Baldwin is fucking insane. You think Casey on Chuck is a bit of a right-wing stereotype? Wait until you read that guy's Twitter.

 

[mindlesspuppet]

Felicia Day is obnoxious.

Felicia Day is a no one that made a web series and gained notoriety from it. Had people not found her attractive she wouldn't have been given the opportunities to be prominent in the gaming community. Opportunities she gladly accepted, let's be frank, she whored herself out when ever possible.

She has ridden the "girl gamer" train for all its worth, all while demonstrating no more than a loose knowledge of gaming which could be acquired via 2 minutes on Google.

So yeah, if she's asked "aren't you just a glorified booth babe?", it's a fair question. It'd be akin to asking an actual booth babe "Aren't you only at E3 because people think you're hot?".

 

[InsanityRequiem]

It's not like you cannot read it if you scroll up, but I'm saving you the trouble. If you mean something else, write something else. Don't pretend that your words from before are irrelevant. You write words, they have defined meanings. I am not going to scry for your actual meaning because, put simply, I just can't.

I can't understand that. Again, we are speaking about a journalist. Somebody who should be able to do writing and some critical thinking. As far as I know, they aren't machines who just ask questions - they can also use other facts and sources. And IMDb and other stuff do exist - plaes where you're not getting opinions but facts. Person A did this and that. Are you implying that human cannot work off that to form a simple answer to "how person A has been useful?" Especially a human who is supposed to be able to?

Besides, it's not like Perez asked that because he was curious. I mean, if I ask somebody "are you stupid?", nobody who reads it would go "Oh, he is actually asking for a honest answer because he doesn't know". Perez didn't ask because he forgot what Google is or because he simply couldn't remember what Day did, it was just an outright attack. And you keep suggesting it may not have been.

Huh, I did type that. :\ My eyes and mind didn't catch that. I should not have put you in what I wrote and left it as mob of protectionists. Sorry.

But the second part is really an agree to disagree moment. Both by differences of opinions on journalism, and most likely miswriting what I meant.

Though separate from that, I do wonder how everyone would react if Mr. Perez was actually a Ms/Mrs. Perez. Would people be responding in the same manner if it was a woman intern journalist tweeting Felicia Day these questions? I feel like not. It'd be something swept under the rug and forgotten about.

 

[Risingblade]

Well she did voice that elf chick in the DA2 dlc aside from that who cares?

 

[Vault101]

the only thing I know about her is that she was Veronica from Fallout NV, however this comment does seem kind of gender skewed

 

[Seneschal]

She's an ACTRESS. I suppose Ryan Douchebag only considers something a valid contribution if you must hold a gamepad or mouse for it to work. Gaming is not the only medium out there, and not the only area of interest to many of us. Gaming is but a small facet of culture, and it pains me to have to reiterate that.

Is it normal to call out people because they don't contribute to something that's out of their field of expertise? Must Felicia learn to code to impress gamers? Must George Clooney begin his drawing lessons, lest he disappoints the comics industry? Must Oprah train to be a goalie, lest FIFA starts disapproving of her?

 

[runic knight]

I recall numerous forum posts complaining about people like Neil Patrick Harris and Will Wheaton not deserving big spots on E3 because of not really representing gaming, I'm not going to dig weeks back into every game tabloid's comments and forum posts to link you specific examples.

Not analogous. Notice how that sort of criticism didn't involve terminology like "glorified booth babe," and didn't involve raging at them for being visible in gaming at all.

Seems his beef is seeing her in gaming all over, not merely "at all". also, terminology was presented as "couldn't, since she is marketed for personality, she be considered a glorified booth babe (since they are marketed on looks). It seems less derogatory when looked at in context to the whole thing. More so, almost a complaint against the industry for giving her fame. he misses the point, sure, but shouldn't need to try and spin this as you appear to have.

 

[tensorproduct]

People who respond to sexism by putting their head in the sand, people who only speak out against sexism because they think it will get them laid, and people who act sexist are all perpetuating the problem in different ways. And, as you said, these attitudes are pretty endemic on gaming websites. AFAIK, the Escapist is one of the least bad ones for this.

Oh Jesus. That is embarrassing.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

Recently Destructoid writer Ryan Perez made a couple comments about Felicia Day on his Twitter account

''Ryan?s questions to Felicia were as follows: ?I keep seeing [you] everywhere. Question: Do you matter at all? Do you even provide anything useful to gaming, besides ?personality?? could you be considered nothing more than a glorified booth babe? You don?t seem to add anything creative to the medium.?''

Following total uproar Ryan was pressured into resigning from his position with Destructoid as D-toid issued apologies to Miss Day. Other figures such as Adam Baldwin and Wil Wheaton have come out in support of Felicia. But quite frankly...isn't he right? What of substance has she contributed to the gaming medium?

While some of his comments could be interpreted as insulting he made a valid point that much of the gaming community has echoed previously. And besides that,it was his private Twitter which was in no way associated with D-toid and he never claimed he spoke for D-toid. People now flock to his Twitter, calling him ''sick'' and a ''misogynist'' (the latter is quite confusing as he never made any comment that was anti-woman,simply anti-Day). Does a man deserve to lose his job for some opinions he holds privately?

I agree with everything you said OP.

"Miss Day" does nothing. In fact, the video series she's popular for just focused a sitcom around a game. A game, mind you, that isn't even real. She's not adding to any specific game, she's just there to entertain the community. Oh, and now she's doing Let's Plays just to keep the fanbase going. Like we didn't have enough of those.

She's not even a journalist, nor does she give any insight to designers. She's just a glorified fan. Even CHOBOT has more on her.

 

[Vault101]

[b/]It's not inherently sexist though. It's essentially calling her out for using gender and looks as a popularity tool.[/b] It's the same way that it's not racist to call out a black person who claims racism if something doesn't go their way (race is involved in the issue, but it's not "racist")

She is an attractive woman isn't meant as the bottom line of her value, just a statement of one thing she is for the purpose of explaining the train of thought.

can you actually prove that though? or is that just an assumption people make? because I get the feeling that just because somone is attractive or have a certain personality they will get accused of this



and its a gender related thing, assuming any half attractive girl in the gaming biz is a "glorified booth babe" because "girlz don't like gamz" is sexist

 

[Vault101]

I agree with everything you said OP.

"Miss Day" does nothing. In fact, the video series she's popular for just focused a sitcom around a game. A game, mind you, that isn't even real. She's not adding to any specific game, she's just there to entertain the community. Oh, and now she's doing Let's Plays just to keep the fanbase going. Like we didn't have enough of those.

She's not even a journalist, nor does she give any insight to designers. She's just a glorified fan. Even CHOBOT has more on her.

and are there not alot of guys who are pretty much the same? why don;t they come under such criticsm

 

[Kahunaburger]

Felicia Day is a no one that made a web series Joss Whedon alum and gained notoriety from it. Had people not found her attractive she not been on Joss Whedon shows she wouldn't have been given the opportunities to be prominent in the gaming community. able to leverage the resulting geek cred into giant piles of money.

Like, I get you're doing the whole "I'm uncomfortable with women I find attractive being successful T.T" thing, but at least get the cause and effect right, man.

And there's nothing wrong with actors having careers. I'm not about to question Nathan Fillion's gamer cred or w/e because he's been in a Halo game ("okay, Fillion, if that's your real name, you say you like playing Halo, but have you beat it on Legendary with at least two skulls on? How many roguelikes have you beaten? What's your position on old-school RPG mechanics and skill ceilings in multiplayer shooters?") or get a case of the madbros because he has (shocker of shockers) acted in roles that he got in part because he was on Firefly.

 

[AyreonMaiden]

I don't get why in gaming circles no one has a nice balanced view on woman. They're not all sluts and they're not all shining bastions of purity and goodness, they're just fucking people.

If this is actually what you think, we're definitely in agreement. People who respond to sexism by putting their head in the sand, people who only speak out against sexism because they think it will get them laid, and people who act sexist are all perpetuating the problem in different ways. And, as you said, these attitudes are pretty endemic on gaming websites. AFAIK, the Escapist is one of the least bad ones for this.

I like what you guys say here.

I'm honestly glad to see someone else entertain the possibility that the phony "white knight" attitude is a thing and it's just as big a part of the problem. I never see that notion addressed in these forum debates about sexism. Far more than the prevalence of the debate itself, I'm sick of that immediate reactionary attitude of "you're with us or you're part of the problem" with no in-between. Maybe they're genuine but they're so extreme sometimes that I can't help but feel it's an act put on just to LOOK like they're progressive.

Regarding Eyelicker's point, maybe that's why I don't necessarily categorize female characters in fiction based on strong/weak, objectified/non-objectified, etc. There are all kinds of men and women in the world, so it's not hard for me to see them as just...characters. Then again, I'm a self-professed privileged heterosexual man and prone to being horny at physical representations of women, from Half-Life to Dead or Alive. You won't catch me apologizing for that, but you'll also never catch me telling my girlfriend to get back in the kitchen. People aren't black and white.

And regarding Ryan Perez and Felicia Day, there's no question the dude was completely out of line. That said, shame on anyone who harassed or wished him harm on Twitter for it. Those that had the chance to respectfully inform or ignore him, and used it instead to condemn and destroy the other party for their ignorance, short-sightedness and immaturity (crimes that no one is innocent of, by the way)...they're no better at all.

 

[Wharrgarble]

And the moral of the story is...

Don't say stupid shit on twitter. Don't say stupid shit on facebook, either. In fact, don't say stupid shit anywhere that someone could take a screen shot of said shit and then spread it around the internet.

The whole situation aside, why people keep posting inflammatory remarks on the internet and then act surprised when it backfires simply blows my mind.