The Felicia Day/Destructoid situation

[DoPo]

Though separate from that, I do wonder how everyone would react if Mr. Perez was actually a Ms/Mrs. Perez. Would people be responding in the same manner if it was a woman intern journalist tweeting Felicia Day these questions? I feel like not. It'd be something swept under the rug and forgotten about.

Probably. I assume a similar thing would have happened if this happened half a year ago when the whole community wasn't as touchy on the whole "OMG, there is an -ism here! Eek!" part. I mean, Perez would have probably still caught some flak but not nearly as much as now.

 

[Eyelicker]

I think his assumption that she must be a booth babe because she is a woman involved with gaming and general geek stuff is pretty damn sexist.

She isn't even that dolled up most of the time.

The assumption wasn't "she is a woman in gaming ergo can be nothing more than a booth babe"

It was "she is an attractive woman ergo she receives a disproportionate amount of attention for what she has done and is milking it"

Sex plays a part in the assumption, but it's not "sexist".

That still sounds sexist to me :/ The bottom line of her worth is 'she is an attractive woman' in that statement. It ignores any other worth she may have just based on her appearance and gender.

So yeah still sexist.

It's not inherently sexist though. It's essentially calling her out for using gender and looks as a popularity tool. It's the same way that it's not racist to call out a black person who claims racism if something doesn't go their way (race is involved in the issue, but it's not "racist")

She is an attractive woman isn't meant as the bottom line of her value, just a statement of one thing she is for the purpose of explaining the train of thought.

Yeah but it's the assumption that it's the only reason why she is popular or that she exists in gaming that is the problem.

Rather than the fact she is talented, likable, a good representative for real female gamers and she knows what she is talking about.

His very assumption that because she is a woman she is some vacuous booth babe there to exploit guys is sexist.

If a guy said to me 'The only reason you have a job writing with that gaming website is because you are an attractive woman' I would take that as monstrously sexist. (and then get his eyes checked).

Whether she is or isn't deserving of her status is besides the point, subjective, and something for another debate, but asserting what he did, isn't on it's own sexist. I'm sure shes a wonderful person but to be fair she hasn't done a massive amount and is arguably over represented, but yeah, he was over aggressive and I don't condone it.

Also don't casually put yourself down like that (no WK)

[b/]It's not inherently sexist though. It's essentially calling her out for using gender and looks as a popularity tool.[/b] It's the same way that it's not racist to call out a black person who claims racism if something doesn't go their way (race is involved in the issue, but it's not "racist")

She is an attractive woman isn't meant as the bottom line of her value, just a statement of one thing she is for the purpose of explaining the train of thought.

can you actually prove that though? or is that just an assumption people make? because I get the feeling that just because somone is attractive or have a certain personality they will get accused of this



and its a gender related thing, assuming any half attractive girl in the gaming biz is a "glorified booth babe" because "girlz don't like gamz" is sexist

It can just as easily be a valid criticism of someone, of course accusing every girl of this would make it sexist, if that was his default stance then yeah, but just one instance doesn't make it sexist. The point is he ISN'T saying this about every girl, just one.

and are there not alot of guys who are pretty much the same? why don;t they come under such criticsm

Of course they do, this is the internet, criticism is flung around everywhere. Just no one rushes to defend them and they generally just deal with it.

 

[VoiceOfTheVoiceless]

Wow, first Spoony and now this guy. Is belittling everyone on twitter the way to get followers? Well, Spoony's fans at least like it when he dumps on them. DTOID just cut all ties with the dude. Guess it's funny when Sterling calls Activision a bunch of fatcat cunts to them.

 

[DJ_DEnM]

I believe he doesn't deserve to lose his job over it, but he does deserve to lose a lot of respect. It's not like he pulled a Paul Christoforo.

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I agree with everything you said OP.

"Miss Day" does nothing. In fact, the video series she's popular for just focused a sitcom around a game. A game, mind you, that isn't even real. She's not adding to any specific game, she's just there to entertain the community. Oh, and now she's doing Let's Plays just to keep the fanbase going. Like we didn't have enough of those.

She's not even a journalist, nor does she give any insight to designers. She's just a glorified fan. Even CHOBOT has more on her.

and are there not alot of guys who are pretty much the same? why don;t they come under such criticsm

Might I ask who? Because I am only aware of Day.

I actually rather like her, makes me sad she is only going to be getting one season on Eureka and I loved her in the Sing along blog, but I am just asking out of interest who her male equivalent would be?

Wil Wheaton or Nathan Fillion probably.

You don't see someone floating up to them and saying 'HEY HOT GUY! Aren't you just there to look pretty?!?!'

Sounds very silly doesn't it.

Any guy who does let's plays and games reviews and looks half decent would count too.

And there's nothing wrong with actors having careers. I'm not about to question Nathan Fillion's gamer cred or w/e because he's been in a Halo game ("okay, Fillion, if that's your real name, you say you like playing Halo, but have you beat it on Legendary with at least two skulls on? How many roguelikes have you beaten? What's your position on old-school RPG mechanics and skill ceilings in multiplayer shooters?") or get a case of the madbros because he has (shocker of shockers) acted in roles that he got in part because he was on Firefly.

Yep.

 

[Darthbawls77]

I don't even know who she is, but on his case:
- he did not do it privately
- all companies advise you to not associate yourself with them if you are doing your own public shindig
- but he already did so he should know better
- and he was just a straight up dick

If you want to trash talk do so drunk with your mates, and if you intend to keep your job you do not do it in a professional capacity.

Wow this pretty much sums up the whole thing. He was a fool to call out anyone like that when hes writing for a company. And although I agree with his right to express himself he did it in a dumb way so ya let the dick get whats coming to him.

 

[Link Kadeshi]

I've honestly wondered why she seems to be such a big deal lately. Sure, she is quite attractive, and I think she's a good actress, but why her? Other women are a match in those two areas. Is she a huge advocate of gaming? If so, then Day all the way. If she's just a VO, then why should she be such a deal?

Hmm... I wonder what Ryan Perez has "provided to gaming." Oh, wait, nobody asks that question because he has a Y chromosome and it's not a good question.

Yeah, far be it to see anybody EVER being cruel to a man. Not like losing his job for a few dumbass comments, that'd never happen.

Yeah, because getting in hot water over sexist remarks is totally the same as being the target of sexist remarks, guise. (Like, seriously, did anyone call, for instance, Nathan Fillion a "glorified booth babe" for being in and helping to promote a Halo game?)

Funny, that. I said this when I found out his inclusion: "Wow, looks like they have nerd bait in ODST." Which is quite similar to "Booth Babe" in that respect.

CAPTCHA: Carry on

 

[StBishop]

On his personal twitter? That's pretty goddam stupid if you ask me. Firing sounds a bit extreme in this situation, but we know how the video gaming community feels about about women. We can't can't handle anything calmly.

[sub](past 2 months of rape and feminism threads on the escapist)[/sub]

Personal twitter is an oxymoron.

No celebrity or Internet celebrity can have a personal twitter.

Twitter isn't private, it's the exact opposite, and by tweeting at her he essentially walked on to her front lawn and said it right into her face in front of all of her friends and family.

So yeah, he made a big boo boo. People need to stop using twitter when they're in any sort of emotional state.

As to what he said, yeah he has a valid point, and no it's not really a sexism issue unless (as Kahunaburger pointed out) it's a question he wouldn't ask of a male.

But when it comes to it, she's no worse than Nathan Fillion or Vin Diesel. She's an actor(/actress) who likes games/gaming. She doesn't need to do anything for gaming.

 

[thePyro_13]

So from what I can glean, she's an actress who does some vice acting for one or two games. I don't know how Ryan manages to hear her mentioned enough to presume she's somehow important to gaming as a whole.

I also don't understand his question, how is voice acting NOT a creative work? I've never heard her mentioned before, I don't see why he would suggest she even provides a 'personality' to gaming.

I also don't see why people want him fired or call him misogynist, he's being stupid in a way unrelated to his job; and he hasn't said enough to understand them motivation behind his dislike of her.

Then again I don't know, of ever hear anything about either of them, and I don't care what happens to him or her.

Also: When I read the thread title I thought It was about some stupid made up holiday. Day is a terrible surname IMO.

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

Hmm... I wonder what Ryan Perez has "provided to gaming." Oh, wait, nobody asks that question because he has a Y chromosome and it's not a good question.

Only...Ryan Perez is a reviewer for a web magazine and Felicia Day is famous for doing web comedies about gaming, who also runs a weekly series called Vaginal Fantasy and starred in a Bioware game.

While she obviously has contributed more to gaming than Perez, this is clearly NOT a matter of sexism but I remember the community outrage when that Jessica Chobot from IGN was announced to be in Mass Effect 3, no one raged when Felicia was in Dragon Age 2. This is just one guy questioning why Felicia is so famous on the web and in all honesty, that's probably the where the sexism lies, in the fact that she's female. Jim Sterling from this site and Destructoid gets questioned all the time, people say MUCH worse than what Perez said about Day but because Felicia has female tits as opposed to fatty man ones everyone's in outrage and I think it's pathetic that when a journalist says such a throw away remark in private about a woman the internet points the finger and calls him sexist

 

[Elamdri]

Recently Destructoid writer Ryan Perez made a couple comments about Felicia Day on his Twitter account

''Ryan?s questions to Felicia were as follows: ?I keep seeing [you] everywhere. Question: Do you matter at all? Do you even provide anything useful to gaming, besides ?personality?? could you be considered nothing more than a glorified booth babe? You don?t seem to add anything creative to the medium.?''

Following total uproar Ryan was pressured into resigning from his position with Destructoid as D-toid issued apologies to Miss Day. Other figures such as Adam Baldwin and Wil Wheaton have come out in support of Felicia. But quite frankly...isn't he right? What of substance has she contributed to the gaming medium?

Well, She has the Guild, which is a popular series which focuses on gamer culture and gaming.
She wrote and starred in Dragon Age: Redemption.
She did voice acting for Dragon Age and Fallout New Vegas.

While some of his comments could be interpreted as insulting he made a valid point that much of the gaming community has echoed previously.

Except that it's NOT a valid point. Even if you exclude her work in just making gaming more popular, which has value in and of itself, she has LITERALLY contributed directly to the creation of video games and game related content through writing and voice acting.

And besides that,it was his private Twitter which was in no way associated with D-toid and he never claimed he spoke for D-toid.

As it turns out, when you work for a company, especially a company that has a media presence, you are accountable for things you say even when they aren't said in the course of your employment.

People now flock to his Twitter, calling him ''sick'' and a ''misogynist'' (the latter is quite confusing as he never made any comment that was anti-woman,simply anti-Day). Does a man deserve to lose his job for some opinions he holds privately?

Yes he deserves to lose his job if he is stupid enough to voice private opinions PUBLICLY and if his association with his company would cause them to lose business. As it turns out, people often tend to punish companies for the actions of their employees, even when they aren't acting in the scope of employment when they do stupid stuff. The company's remedy is to fire the person (Which is usually what the upset masses want in the first place).

Also, he is being misogynistic when he compares her to a glorified booth babe, because he's saying that her value to the industry is only tied to her appearance, which is a misogynistic notion.

 

[DigitalAtlas]

I agree with everything you said OP.

"Miss Day" does nothing. In fact, the video series she's popular for just focused a sitcom around a game. A game, mind you, that isn't even real. She's not adding to any specific game, she's just there to entertain the community. Oh, and now she's doing Let's Plays just to keep the fanbase going. Like we didn't have enough of those.

She's not even a journalist, nor does she give any insight to designers. She's just a glorified fan. Even CHOBOT has more on her.

and are there not alot of guys who are pretty much the same? why don;t they come under such criticsm

To me, they are. Most Let's Players and show creators especially. For instance, unless someone can tell me what Michael Shanks does, he just made a good geeky show. Nothing more.

 

[Sylveria]

He's not in hot water because of his gender, it's because of the gender of the person he's speaking to. That's just as bad. It's like dropping two people in a warzone for no reason, and saying to the girl: "Oh yeah, here's your bullet proof armour. You get it because you have a vagina."

That's pretty much what things have been reduced to when it comes to gaming. The industry, especially the journalism/consumer side of the industry, has been trying so hard to not appear sexist towards women that every little thing is now considered sexism, an attack, sexualization, whatever. Like someone above said, if Morgan Webb or some other attractive female personality came out and said this against someone like Nathan Fillian, not an eye would be batted. Anything that demeans, brutalizes or objectifies men is totally ignored, and we have people like Movie Bob saying "oh well that's different."

Sexism, sexualization, misogyny, etc, they're all two way streets. As a woman, I am really sick of this industry and this culture trying to act like we're fragile flowers who need to be protected and sheltered and covered up or else we're being abused or exploited in some fashion. I like Ivy's provocative costumes, I like Juliet Starling fighting zombies in her cheerleader outfit, and I wish that people in gaming would grow the hell up and stop losing their minds when there's a flash of panty on screen.

 

[NightHawk21]

As far as video games go didn't she just voice a couple characters? I mostly know her from web series (Dr.Horrible <- if you have not seen this you're doing yourself a disservice). Going off the VA knowledge only, how has she contributed any less to video games than any other voice actor, and why would he call her out publicly like that in what I would say is a very confrontational tone? I don't know what the guy's issue is, but the same question could be asked of almost every video game journalist.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Yeah, because getting in hot water over sexist remarks is totally the same as being the target of sexist remarks, guise. (Like, seriously, did anyone call, for instance, Nathan Fillion a "glorified booth babe" for being in and helping to promote a Halo game?)

Funny, that. I said this when I found out his inclusion: "Wow, looks like they have nerd bait in ODST." Which is quite similar to "Booth Babe" in that respect.

I think the key difference is that there isn't that nasty undercurrent of sexism. Patrick Stewart would also qualify as this type of "nerd bait," but the key difference is that one is saying "this person is in a game because nerds who like his/her past work will be more likely to buy the game" and the other is basically saying "this person is in this game only because she's attractive."

 

[mindlesspuppet]

Felicia Day is a no one that made a web series Joss Whedon alum and gained notoriety from it. Had people not found her attractive she not been on Joss Whedon shows she wouldn't have been given the opportunities to be prominent in the gaming community. able to leverage the resulting geek cred into giant piles of money.

Like, I get you're doing the whole "I'm uncomfortable with women I find attractive being successful T.T" thing, but at least get the cause and effect right, man.

And there's nothing wrong with actors having careers. I'm not about to question Nathan Fillion's gamer cred or w/e because he's been in a Halo game ("okay, Fillion, if that's your real name, how many roguelikes have you beaten? What's your position on old-school RPG mechanics and skill ceilings in multiplayer shooters?") or get a case of the madbros because he has (shocker of shockers) acted in roles that he got in part because he was on Firefly.

I've never found her attractive to be honest (quite the opposite in fact). Weird facial structure, too thin, just not my taste. Awesome assumption there though; I suppose now you'll accuse me of either lying or being a "virgin with no clue what real females look like"? I'm a guy on the internet so surely I'm either attracted to anything with a vagina OR I only like fictional girls from games/anime and I live in a basement?

She's a Joss Whedon alum, but The Guild gained her a ton of notoriety, especially with gamers. She likely would have faded away in obscurity otherwise -- with the occasional role in Law & Order SVU or something. Of course you could say "she wouldn't have made The Guild if she didn't like gaming", to which I'd respond;

She couldn't find real acting work so she resorted to a webseries, pretty much every popular webseries at the time (and still for that matter) were gaming based, so subject matter was an easy choice.

Here in lays one of the glaring problems with her; when she's writing for something, sure she seems like a gamer. On the other hand I could write something and seem like an expert on Hinduism via the magic of Google, but I most certainly am not, and could not discuss as such.

Nathan Fillion is associated with sci-fi which is why many gamers like him, not with gaming the way Felicia Day is.

So good job pointing out Felicia Day is an actress. Ever think she's acting like a gamer because she's not attractive enough to be a leading lady and not talented enough to be a dramatic actress?

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I agree with everything you said OP.

"Miss Day" does nothing. In fact, the video series she's popular for just focused a sitcom around a game. A game, mind you, that isn't even real. She's not adding to any specific game, she's just there to entertain the community. Oh, and now she's doing Let's Plays just to keep the fanbase going. Like we didn't have enough of those.

She's not even a journalist, nor does she give any insight to designers. She's just a glorified fan. Even CHOBOT has more on her.

and are there not alot of guys who are pretty much the same? why don;t they come under such criticsm

Might I ask who? Because I am only aware of Day.

I actually rather like her, makes me sad she is only going to be getting one season on Eureka and I loved her in the Sing along blog, but I am just asking out of interest who her male equivalent would be?

Wil Wheaton or Nathan Fillion probably.

You don't see someone floating up to them and saying 'HEY HOT GUY! Aren't you just there to look pretty?!?!'

Sounds very silly doesn't it.

Any guy who does let's plays and games reviews and looks half decent would count too.

Ok il give ya the first part. I haven't payed much attention to Wheaton career (Though I have been hearing about him more and more as of later!) But Fillion is bro material. Though he is fairly comical, if someone did (float?) up to him saying that he would probobly just strike a pose and agree. Just his personality type

The second part though is completely false, "any guy who does lets plays and game reviews and looks half decent" arent exactly cultural icons like Day or Fillion are.

Unless you are expanding it to "any girl who middle middle and looks half decent" as well, then I would have to agree, but point out jim sterling only got so far because he is a ball of drop dead sexy

Yeah okay but I know Miss Day does plenty of web stuff in relation to games and boardgames. So that's why included that part.

I agree that Nathan Fillion would probably strike a pose and laugh but only because the question is so bloody stupid.

We need to get to a point where it's silly to say that to a lass too and not drenched in insinuation and assumption.

snip

It's so funny the way you give Fillion a free pass because he's male but Day can't possibly be a real gamer because she has lady bits!

 

[Tsun Tzu]

I like Day, quite a lot actually. When she was on Supernatural, I actually man-squee'd.

I also don't think the guy should have been fired for speaking his mind and, frankly, he was quite polite compared to most folks who get canned for the stupid shit they expel from their mouth holes (or hands, in this case).

I'm very much a proponent of "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

Now, I'm aware his rights weren't violated, but losing ones job over something so...honestly, trivial, is just as asinine as the initial comments.

 

[Frozen Donkey Wheel2]

No, he didn't deserve to be fired. He also didn't deserve to be called a sexist or misogynist or whatever. Someone should really only be fired for things that effect their job performance. This doesn't. And it's not sexist because...It's not sexist. He says absolutely nothing about women in general, just this one woman. It's like I say "That black guy is a car thief", it's not racist. Provided I've actually seen him steal a car.

I can't really say much more then that, seeing as I don't know too much about Felicia Day, and I'm not really sure why he's complaining, or what he's trying to imply. Nonsensical and mean-spirited? Sure. But not sexist, and not worth firing him over.

 

[Charli]

I like Destructoid, but this guy is a dick and his comments had no validity. And yes, it is sexist. I wasn't ready to go there until he made the "glorified booth babe" remark.

And for people defending the contents of his remark (even if you admit how he said it was wrong), what makes Felicia Day worth singling out? She's an actress. She's voiced characters in games. She's done a damn good job in some of those (Veronica from New Vegas being a great example). If you have a problem with her in games, then you should also have the same problem with Patrick Stewart or Seth Green. Do you? I highly doubt it. She has a lot more relevancy to gaming than Mr. Perez.

Sexism is a thing. There's nothing wrong with pointing it out when it actually happens. You don't have to tip-toe around the issue when some some douchebag shows his true colors.

...I don't have much more to elaborate, Dusty says all of my stuff.
I know who both of them are, Destructoid was in the wrong, end of.

Captcha: toe the line

My Captcha you are really getting good at this 'appropriate for topic' thing.


Being fired should be at the discretion of the company, if they think he has crossed a line it could be over eating a hotdog next to the wrong sponsorship sign and having it photographed.