The Felicia Day/Destructoid situation

[Moonlight Butterfly]

Ever think she's acting like a gamer because she's not attractive enough to be a leading lady and not talented enough to be a dramatic actress?

This sort of thing isn't helping your case any. It's inaccurate in a way that's immediately obvious to anyone with an internet connection [http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1260407/] and fails to address the core issue re: people not getting their jimmies rustled over whether Nathan Fillion/Vin Diesel/Will Wheaton et al. have demonstrated sufficient nerdiness. ("Okay, Vin Diesel, you claim to be a D&D player, so answer me this: as a 10th level 3.5 character using only materials provided in the PHB, MM, and DMG, how do you break the wish economy? You have one minute to answer.")

Feel free to call me an idiot, but what exactly is made obvious by her IMDB page? That she's gotten more work after The Guild? Or that aside from her recurring role on a SyFy show (which would no doubt want her for to garner her 'nerd' audience) she's pretty much only had minor guess starring roles in TV shows?

People don't get their "jimmies rustled" over Tricia Helfer being doing game voices and being at expos either, because she doesn't try to act like she's "one of us".

Nathan Fillion doesn't pimp himself out to gamers, quite the opposite in fact, he tends to tell us to shut up from time to time.

Pretty certain Vin Diesel could answer that, he seems to be somewhat of an anomaly.

Do people like Will Wheaton?

You are just assuming she is 'acting' like one of us. Male celebrity gamers don't seem to have to prove themselves so why should female gamers.

The same thing happened with Aisha Tyler when she presented for Ubisoft at E3

 

[mindlesspuppet]

Here's a question. Why does she HAVE to prove any kind of True Gamer Cred to anyone? Would it be so wrong if her perceived geekiness were just a foot in the door to an acting career? What damage would be done? This isn't a church, or a political party, we don't need to look for wolves in sheep's clothing.

That's kind of the topic at hand. Many people see her as doing this. We usually couldn't care less. If it's okay to use her "perceived geekiness" as "a foot in the door to an acting career", then what's wrong with calling her out on it? If she's willing to use gamer stereotypes in her favor, then why is it when someone uses them against her they are suddenly sexist?

Seriously, the woman is being criticized for becoming famous within a specific subculture and using that niche to get work. The acting business is, in case you haven't noticed, RIDICULOUSLY competitive, and focusing on a niche to sell yourself is probably the least unethical way to get ahead in it short of being discovered at a laundromat.

This thread seems to have turned in to her fans vs people that hate her, and completely ignoring the Destructoid situation. The issue is here is whether or not Ryan Perez' question had merit to it: I think by your own words it does. Felicia Day isn't some nice little girl that the internet pushed from obscurity into the lime light, she is an opportunistic girl that's used a niche demographic for her own advantage. As such, she should be prepared, and deserves to be asked, questions that aren't always going to be flattering.

 

[michael87cn]

Recently Destructoid writer Ryan Perez made a couple comments about Felicia Day on his Twitter account

''Ryan?s questions to Felicia were as follows: ?I keep seeing [you] everywhere. Question: Do you matter at all? Do you even provide anything useful to gaming, besides ?personality?? could you be considered nothing more than a glorified booth babe? You don?t seem to add anything creative to the medium.?''

Following total uproar Ryan was pressured into resigning from his position with Destructoid as D-toid issued apologies to Miss Day. Other figures such as Adam Baldwin and Wil Wheaton have come out in support of Felicia. But quite frankly...isn't he right? What of substance has she contributed to the gaming medium?

While some of his comments could be interpreted as insulting he made a valid point that much of the gaming community has echoed previously. And besides that,it was his private Twitter which was in no way associated with D-toid and he never claimed he spoke for D-toid. People now flock to his Twitter, calling him ''sick'' and a ''misogynist'' (the latter is quite confusing as he never made any comment that was anti-woman,simply anti-Day). Does a man deserve to lose his job for some opinions he holds privately?

What obligation does Felicia Day have to "provide anything useful"? What obligation do YOU have? What obligation does anyone have? And does anyone do it for free?

My answer is none and no. In that order respectively. Just because someone becomes well-known or 'famous' doesn't mean they now have some kind of responsibility to better 'gaming'. . .

What a silly notion. Where did it come from?

I can safely say I've never heard of this Ryan guy. That means, from my perspective Felicia has done more than he has. She has provided entertainment. He apparently is just a random jerk.

 

[Cheesepower5]

I recall numerous forum posts complaining about people like Neil Patrick Harris and Will Wheaton not deserving big spots on E3 because of not really representing gaming, I'm not going to dig weeks back into every game tabloid's comments and forum posts to link you specific examples.

Not analogous. Notice how that sort of criticism didn't involve terminology like "glorified booth babe," and didn't involve raging at them for being visible in gaming at all.

I doubt it would, as I've never seen a male "booth babe."

Precisely. This type of criticism is generally not leveled at men involved in games, and when it is, it is not presented in a way that belittles the men in an explicitly gendered way.

Gender specific isn't gender hating. It's not sexism it's... Well, it's just ignorant.

Public Service Announcement: Don't call shit like this sexist kids! It totally undermines the meaning when you use it on REAL sexists like Rush Limbaugh or the Islamic extremists.

Let's put it this way: I can assure you (based on past experience) that it sucks to get hit in the face with a hockey stick. It also sucks (but not as much) when I stub my toe. The fact that stubbing my toe is not as painful as getting hit in the face with a hockey stick doesn't mean I don't avoid stubbing my toe where possible.

I would totally respect that if all this righteous outrage was just keeping yourself, or just keeping anyone from being hurt. But all it did was get an apologetic guy who fucked up out one career and "saved" someone who didn't need saving. All the evidence I've seen seems to indicate that Felicia Day took it as someone as reasonable as she seems should: In stride. It didn't bring her down.

And now all I see on the interwebs is accusations of sexism and a few things that legitimately deserve it. I find it frustrating, is all. I'm sure you can understand that, since in all likelihood that's why you get such a negative reaction out of trolls. To some people shitstorms are just shitstorms and to some people trolls are just trolls.

 

[Evan Waters]

I agree with your Chobot thing, Felicia is actually an actress so it's all fair enough but honestly, questioning famous composers about what they've done for films is completely different from asking an actress who is treated like a gaming celebrity even though she has very little to do with the actual industry.

So, composers contribute to their industry but performers don't? Odd line to draw there.

She's been in..what 1 set of DLC for 1 game? Ok then, it's like asking an extra in a film what they contribute.

No, it's like asking an ACTOR what they contribute. Voice acting is acting even if it's one role in one game. THAT IS A CONTRIBUTION. John Cazale was in a handful of films before he died of cancer. He contributed to the world of film.

Serious, she's a film and tv actress, the only reason she is a gaming celebrity is because she likes them and she's a girl.

AND because of The Guild, which is the thing that got her noticed. Which is about a bunch of people playing a game. So there's that.

 

[Don Savik]

This all is really rather stupid. Instead of smart, informative comments to give this Mr. Perez guy an understanding about Felicia Day, you all go 'Sexist Misogynistic Pig' on the guy. Which in turns makes you all look like sexist misandristic behavior.

I hear a lot about Felicia Day, but do I know anything about her? No. And if I asked her that, or anyone else, I expect to be enlightened. Because yes, in some aspects, someone that knows nothing will see her as a 'glorified booth babe' as he says. If I didn't know anything about Nathan Fillon, I'd call him a 'glorified booth dude'. But I know some things about him, so I really can't.

Instead of getting him fired, which ultimately was an overreacted response, he should have been given all the information regarding what Felicia Day has done.

Quite disgusting how it was handled.

I agree with you.

You know what we shouldn't do to people who call others names?

Call them names.

Fighting fire with fire makes us all look like retards. I'm pretty sure everyone thinks negatively about at least ONE person on the planet. I'm pretty sure we've been guilty of "attacking" someone we disagree with, so stop acting like we're above it.

People can't have a negative opinion these days without rustling everyone jimmies. Such is the internet hate machine.

 

[TAdamson]

So good job pointing out Felicia Day is an actress. Ever think she's acting like a gamer because she's not attractive enough to be a leading lady and not talented enough to be a dramatic actress?

Nope. First she pretty hot. But then that is subjective as you pointed out...

And why would she "act" like a gamer?

And WTF is a "gamer"?

Is someone who plays games a "gamer"? Felicia Day plays games.

People don't get their "jimmies rustled" over Tricia Helfer being doing game voices and being at expos either, because she doesn't try to act like she's "one of us".

Excuse me? "One of us"? Why would she want to pretend to be anything like you?

Is it the attitude of "gamers" to exclude people on the basis of some pre-conceived notion of what a gamer "is" or "isn't"? I was under the impression that being a gamer was a fucking hobby. You know, something that you can have different levels of commitment to like golf or rock-climbing?

Apparently mindlesspuppet gets to decide who's a gamer or not...

If you're a fair and accurate representation of "gamers" then I don't want to be a "gamer".

 

[Vault101]

http://terribleminds.com/ramble/2012/07/01/the-wreck-of-the-s-s-censorship-or-how-writers-steer-their-careers-into-the-rocks/

somone already posted this here...but it was bloody brilliant

 

[Kahunaburger]

I would totally respect that if all this righteous outrage was just keeping yourself, or just keeping anyone from being hurt.

Using a toe stubbing analogy, here's what happened:

1. A Destructroid intern stubs his toe.
2. ITT, some people say "that guy sure stubbed his toe!"
3. Also ITT, some people say "that guy didn't stub his toe! It doesn't count as toe stubbing unless there's blood everywhere!"

Ever think she's acting like a gamer because she's not attractive enough to be a leading lady and not talented enough to be a dramatic actress?

("Okay, Vin Diesel, you claim to be a D&D player, so answer me this: as a 10th level 3.5 character using only materials provided in the PHB, MM, and DMG, how do you break the wish economy? You have one minute to answer.")

Ahem, it is simple, wish allows you to wish for any magical item, it does not put a GP limit on it while it is specific in how expensive a NONmagical item can be, thus you can use a wish to gain an item of unlimited wishes. Thank you.

Though...yeah...the guy you are quoting...should really just stop talking.

My sentiments exactly haha.

 

[Evan Waters]

Felicia Day isn't some nice little girl that the internet pushed from obscurity into the lime light, she is an opportunistic girl that's used a niche demographic for her own advantage.

Here's a hint- SO HAS EVERYONE ELSE IN THIS BUSINESS.

THAT IS HOW YOU SUCCEED. YOU CREATE OPPORTUNITIES. YOU DO NOT WAIT AROUND FOR THEM.

That doesn't make her unethical or not "nice" or some kind of manipulative *****. She's probably a decent person who got some celebrity because of The Guild and Dr. Horrible and has leveraged that into more work, some of it in the video game world because The Guild is about an MMO and she seems genuinely interested in games so why not?

Seriously. What wrong is being done? What does she need to answer for?

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

I agree with your Chobot thing, Felicia is actually an actress so it's all fair enough but honestly, questioning famous composers about what they've done for films is completely different from asking an actress who is treated like a gaming celebrity even though she has very little to do with the actual industry.

So, composers contribute to their industry but performers don't? Odd line to draw there.

She's been in..what 1 set of DLC for 1 game? Ok then, it's like asking an extra in a film what they contribute.

No, it's like asking an ACTOR what they contribute. Voice acting is acting even if it's one role in one game. THAT IS A CONTRIBUTION. John Cazale was in a handful of films before he died of cancer. He contributed to the world of film.

Serious, she's a film and tv actress, the only reason she is a gaming celebrity is because she likes them and she's a girl.

AND because of The Guild, which is the thing that got her noticed. Which is about a bunch of people playing a game. So there's that.

Yes, she has contributed to gaming but in Dragon Age 2, she contributed to 1 DLC in 1 game and while that may be a contribution I still think my extra thing is apt as I'm sure some extras have more screentime than Felicia has had time acting in a game and therefore must contribute more to their medium, right?

Also The Guild doesn't contribute to gaming, it's ABOUT gaming but only as a plot device, that's like saying a drama about a fictional football team contributes to the sport.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Nathan Fillion doesn't pimp himself out to gamers, quite the opposite in fact, he tends to tell us to shut up from time to time.

I seem to recall various interviews leading up to ODST where Nathan Fillion was talking about how much he enjoyed Halo. If our fictional Natasha Fillion (famous for her portrayal of Captain Malorie Reynolds of Firefly) said the same thing, tears of rage would (apparently) have been shed.

 

[Vault101]

That's kind of the topic at hand. Many people see her as doing this. We usually couldn't care less. If it's okay to use her "perceived geekiness" as "a foot in the door to an acting career", then what's wrong with calling her out on it? If she's willing to use gamer stereotypes in her favor, then why is it when someone uses them against her they are suddenly sexist?

This thread seems to have turned in to her fans vs people that hate her, and completely ignoring the Destructoid situation. The issue is here is whether or not Ryan Perez' question had merit to it: I think by your own words it does. Felicia Day isn't some nice little girl that the internet pushed from obscurity into the lime light, she is an opportunistic girl that's used a niche demographic for her own advantage. As such, she should be prepared, and deserves to be asked, questions that aren't always going to be flattering.

how do you actually know this? this seems more like an interpretation on your part

and the fact is its plain as day that this was NOT a legit question...it was a sarcastic rhtorical question with the sole purpose of being an ass...and the guy was an ass, did he deserve what he got? I don't know, probably not

eather way a guy said somthing stupid, made a terrible mistake. things like twitter can have the power to fuck things up as weve seen here...but Its silly to try and dress it up as "a legitimate question"

if I say to somone "are you fucking retarded?" <-am I actually geniunly curious as to weather or not they have an intullectual disability?

the "sexism" part comes from the "implication" or the "idea" that "any female in the gaming biz is OBVIOUSYL just there for her looks" <-which came through in the comment

 

[mindlesspuppet]

So good job pointing out Felicia Day is an actress. Ever think she's acting like a gamer because she's not attractive enough to be a leading lady and not talented enough to be a dramatic actress?

Ahahaahahaha....

AHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH.....

AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHHHHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

*cough*

You're right man, like really... Or are you? I think you're just acting like you hate Felicia! Or maybe you're acting like someone who's acting like they hate Felicia! Maybe everyone here actually fucking hates video games, and they're just acting like they do! Maybe I'm not really human, and I'm just a lizard acting like a man!

....No, but seriously, do you think before you type?

Certainly celebrities never take on a public persona to garner a specific audience, I'm sure that never happens... But way to comment with no real insight, argument, or anything of value.

snip...

You are just assuming she is 'acting' like one of us. Male celebrity gamers don't seem to have to prove themselves so why should female gamers.

The same thing happened with Aisha Tyler when she presented for Ubisoft at E3

I'm sorry, but what male gamers for example? Most the time male gamers don't have to "prove themselves" because that's pretty much the first thing they did to gain notoriety.

If Yahtzee, Jim Sterling, Toby Turner, TotalBiscuit etc didn't make it painfully apparent they are gamers in the first place no one would know who they are. Hell, it was one of the first things Nathan Barnatt did before the crazy dance videos and he really didn't need to.

 

[Blade_125]

What has Ryan Perez contributed to journalism? I have no idea, but if he hadn't contributed anything to his job I am sure he would haev been fired before now.

His question was stupid. If she can make money doingwhat she does then what does it matter what she has contributed. If no one wants to watch whatever she does (I've only seen the guild and her dragon age videos nad I enjoyed both) then she will stop being ale to do her projects.

Ryan, people are onyl relevant if everyone else makes them relevant.

 

[Cheesepower5]

I would totally respect that if all this righteous outrage was just keeping yourself, or just keeping anyone from being hurt.

Using a toe stubbing analogy, here's what happened:

1. A Destructroid intern stubs his toe.
2. ITT, some people say "that guy sure stubbed his toe!"
3. Also ITT, some people say "that guy didn't stub his toe! It doesn't count as toe stubbing unless there's blood everywhere!"

Still not sure I follow. Who's saying what.

It's more like, Ryan Perez-Hilton over there stubbed Felicia Day's toe, so then they... hit him in the face with a hockey stick. And the their privates are a big part of their discussion for little reason. Like, maybe Ryan Paris Hilton hates Felicia Day for her privates, or maybe he just said something dumb because that's what alcohol does. Makes people focus on private parts. What was I talking about again?

 

[ThePenguinKnight]

That's kind of dumb.
Why on earth would you single someone out and be like `justify your existance to me!`.
Sounds like a bit of a prick.

Basically this, just seems like someone jealous of her fame.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

No, but it should constitute something that is demeaning to the gender as a whole and not just, you know, Felicia Day.

His comments imply that a well known female who also happens to like and contribute to the gaming community has to be doing something special and be more than just a girl who likes games, otherwise they are obviously only there for sex appeal, and you don't see what's sexist about that?

His questions were directed at the individual personally yes, but the nature and presentation of the questions shows a much uglier attitude to women in the gaming community in general.

Is this so complicated? He wasn't acting like the **** you guys are making him out to be, he was clearly some form of lesser ****. He insulted Wheaton, nobody gives a fuck. You ignore this and say he targets women exclusively, but clearly his issues extend far beyond just women.

Who are these "guys" that you speak of. As far as I know nobody formed any kind of 'Internet White Knighting Alliance', and if they did I'm certainly not part of it. My opinions on what he said are my own. I'm not part of any gang conspiring to present a false image of this guy.

Also, on the contrary, I do, personally, care that he insulted Wheaton. What he wrote was mean-spirited and pathetic to say the least. I never denied it or tried to claim he was attacking women "exclusively", it just wasn't part of the issue I took up with you. That said while his comments towards Wheadon were shitty, they were made while on the defensive, rather than his comments towards Day which just came right the fuck out of nowhere with no provocation, and no language was used that implied disrespect towards Wheadon because of his gender. So, while both were bad, it not entirely accurate to say that they were both the same.

If I had to venture a guess, he's probably a bitter "hardcoar gamur" who hates fake gamers in general. It doesn't all boil down to your black and white world of EVIL SEXIST PIGS and GOOD CHIVALROUS GUYS LIKE ME. People who do this shit are just trying to feel better about themselves.

If that was his motivation then it doesn't make what he said any less sexist, it just makes him doubly ignorant fro attacking her as an example of a "fake" gamer, when just 5 minutes of research (something you'd kind of expect a journalist to be practiced in doing whether what they were asking was part of their work or not) would have told him that she is a genuinely big fan of the industry, and has done a fair bit of work within it.

Please don't patronize me, and more importantly please don't blatantly misrepresent what I say in order to pigeon-hole me into a group that I don't belong to (if it even exists). I never claimed I was a shining beacon of chivalry, nor did I claim that everyone who doesn't think like I do is a chauvinistic pig. But when people insult other people through their gender, that does make them guilty of sexism, no matter how they might see their own 'motivations'.

Those people "trying to feel better about themselves" is not an excuse. For example, if my house had just been robbed and I was feeling bitter, and chose to take it out on a random black guy in the street who I noticed had nice shoes, inquiring who he stole them from, am I being racist? You bet I am. It doesn't matter that I don't really think all black people a thieves. It doesn't matter that I was only trying to make myself feel better, and wouldn't have said it if I was in a good mood. Racist comments are racist, and sexist comments are sexist. The fact that he 'didn't really mean it' if that is the case, doesn't wash. When someone is showing examples of unfair prejudice, never mind why, they should be called out as such. When someone who's job it is to be fair and unbiased, as well as searching, in their questions, is guilty of said prejudice, even outside of their work, then they can't be trusted to do their job properly. When people can't be trusted to do their job properly, they shouldn't expect to keep it.

 

[Evan Waters]

I agree with your Chobot thing, Felicia is actually an actress so it's all fair enough but honestly, questioning famous composers about what they've done for films is completely different from asking an actress who is treated like a gaming celebrity even though she has very little to do with the actual industry.

So, composers contribute to their industry but performers don't? Odd line to draw there.

She's been in..what 1 set of DLC for 1 game? Ok then, it's like asking an extra in a film what they contribute.

No, it's like asking an ACTOR what they contribute. Voice acting is acting even if it's one role in one game. THAT IS A CONTRIBUTION. John Cazale was in a handful of films before he died of cancer. He contributed to the world of film.

Serious, she's a film and tv actress, the only reason she is a gaming celebrity is because she likes them and she's a girl.

AND because of The Guild, which is the thing that got her noticed. Which is about a bunch of people playing a game. So there's that.

Yes, she has contributed to gaming but in Dragon Age 2, she contributed to 1 DLC in 1 game and while that may be a contribution I still think my extra thing is apt as I'm sure some extras have more screentime than Felicia has had time acting in a game and therefore must contribute more to their medium, right?

Well, for the record, I don't go on Twitter and say "What has Extra X contributed to the world of film? Justify your existence!"

Also, voice acting is more performing than extra-ing. There's a significant difference. Just ask SAG.

Also The Guild doesn't contribute to gaming, it's ABOUT gaming but only as a plot device, that's like saying a drama about a fictional football team contributes to the sport.

But doesn't it? I mean, I'm fairly sure a lot of basketball coaches have taken just the slightest bit of inspiration from Gene Hackman in Hoosiers.

 

[Dirzzit]

Well he was a dick, but he's kinda right. "Nerds" put her on a pedastel because she's "into" video games and doesn't have any major appearance flaws.