The Felicia Day/Destructoid situation

[Awexsome]

"I keep seeing [you] everywhere. Question: Do you matter at all? Do you even provide anything useful to gaming, besides "personality?" could you be considered nothing more than a glorified booth babe? You don't seem to add anything creative to the medium."

That alone is enough for me to see the firing as totally justified no matter who it was aimed at since he was doing it representative of the company in a professional sense.

And there are surely strong sexist overtones in that. I mean... how willfully blind to it would you have to be ignorant to it...?

 

[mindlesspuppet]

I'm sorry, but what male gamers for example? Most the time male gamers don't have to "prove themselves" because that's pretty much the first thing they did to gain notoriety.

If Yahtzee, Jim Sterling, Toby Turner, TotalBiscuit etc didn't make it painfully apparent they are gamers in the first place no one would know who they are. Hell, it was one of the first things Nathan Barnatt did before the crazy dance videos and he really didn't need to.

Oh really? Because when I saw the first Jim Sterling or a Yahtzee video I didn't know anything about him? They are just some guy on the internet they could tell you anything. For all you know they could just be looking stuff up on google! They could be just getting someone else to write the reviews!!! (Being sarcastic obviously)

Felicia Day has made it clear she is a gamer so the only problem is whether you believe her or not and clearly you don't just because she happens to have boobs.

May have missed the point. You likely would have never seen Jim Sterling or Yahtzee if, as I already said, they didn't prove themselves to begin with. Maybe when you saw them for the first time you didn't know what to make of them, but that doesn't mean they hadn't been at it for sometime. Many were first exposed to them here on The Escapist, but they had been doing their thing long before that.

How exactly has Felicia Day made it clear shes a gamer? People keep saying this, and acting like The Guild is some kind of proof, but it's not. Gaming is simply the situational basis for a comedy in The Guild, much in the way that actually Fantasy Football is a situational basis for the comedy in The League.

I love how so many people are quick to jump on Ryan Perez as sexist and then say this sort of trite "the only problem is whether you believe her or not and clearly you don't just because she happens to have boobs," with no regard. First of all, Felicia Day has boobs like your average teenage boy has boobs. Secondly, just no, I have issue with her specifically, not an issue with all females prominent in gaming culture.

 

[Evan Waters]

I agree with your Chobot thing, Felicia is actually an actress so it's all fair enough but honestly, questioning famous composers about what they've done for films is completely different from asking an actress who is treated like a gaming celebrity even though she has very little to do with the actual industry.

So, composers contribute to their industry but performers don't? Odd line to draw there.

She's been in..what 1 set of DLC for 1 game? Ok then, it's like asking an extra in a film what they contribute.

No, it's like asking an ACTOR what they contribute. Voice acting is acting even if it's one role in one game. THAT IS A CONTRIBUTION. John Cazale was in a handful of films before he died of cancer. He contributed to the world of film.

Serious, she's a film and tv actress, the only reason she is a gaming celebrity is because she likes them and she's a girl.

AND because of The Guild, which is the thing that got her noticed. Which is about a bunch of people playing a game. So there's that.

Yes, she has contributed to gaming but in Dragon Age 2, she contributed to 1 DLC in 1 game and while that may be a contribution I still think my extra thing is apt as I'm sure some extras have more screentime than Felicia has had time acting in a game and therefore must contribute more to their medium, right?

Well, for the record, I don't go on Twitter and say "What has Extra X contributed to the world of film? Justify your existence!"

Also, voice acting is more performing than extra-ing. There's a significant difference. Just ask SAG.

Oh no, I don't agree with what the guy did, I just don't think what he said would or should have any impact on anyone, maybe Felicia could feel a bit hurt about the thing and sure being fired from Destructoid is fine, that's all his stupid fault but our outrage is ridiculous

and some extras have voices, and a lot of work, it all depends on the scope but I don't think she's done much at all for gaming except get a lot of fans for doing very little

An extra is a nonspeaking role by definition. You're thinking of bit players, which isn't really a technical term, but even then, hey, everyone can be important. I don't see why we have to denigrate everyone.

As for "doing very little", how many web series have you written and starred in? I mean, that is a thing. It is a big thingy.

 

[Vault101]

Well he was a dick, but he's kinda right. "Nerds" put her on a pedastel because she's "into" video games and doesn't have any major appearance flaws.

how is he right? she's not responisble if other people put her on a pedstal...and ASIDE from that why does she need to justify her existance to anyone? as much as I hate to say it I think gener plays a role in this

and again, it wasnt a legit question, it was an insult, plain and simple

At face value I don't see much wrong in those statements. Reword the "Do you matter at all?" statement and I think the statement is fine. I could easily see this as mistaken implications from everybody. However, judging from the rest of Ryan Perez's Twitter messages, I'm going to assume he didn't just forget to carefully craft his words to more accurately get his point across.

at face vaule it kind of implies "women are only in the gming biz because they are attractive"

but ASIDE from that its a real dick move to go around and say "justify yourself to me!"..regardless of weather or not its motivated by gender

 

[Samus Aran but a man]

How is posting it on Twitter for all the world to see "private"?

Anyway, fool didn't know how the game works. It's career suicide.

 

[Evan Waters]

May have missed the point. You likely would have never seen Jim Sterling or Yahtzee if, as I already said, they didn't prove themselves to begin with. Maybe when you saw them for the first time you didn't know what to make of them, but that doesn't mean they hadn't been at it for sometime. Many were first exposed to them here on The Escapist, but they had been doing their thing long before that.

How exactly has Felicia Day made it clear shes a gamer?

If someone says they're a gamer, I generally don't question them on this assertion, any more than if they claim they're a big fan of Duran Duran or that they really like fudge. Life is too short to care about these things.

Do we have any evidence that she's NOT? If you're calling her manipulative and have "an issue with her" I would hope you have more evidence for her deceitfulness than a vague feeling.

 

[Kahunaburger]

I'm sorry, but what male gamers for example? Most the time male gamers don't have to "prove themselves" because that's pretty much the first thing they did to gain notoriety.

If Yahtzee, Jim Sterling, Toby Turner, TotalBiscuit etc didn't make it painfully apparent they are gamers in the first place no one would know who they are. Hell, it was one of the first things Nathan Barnatt did before the crazy dance videos and he really didn't need to.

So you're saying that anyone who isn't immediately identifiable as a "gamer" must "prove themselves" before talking about or working in games?

AND if that person doesn't meet your arbitrary, meaningless and completely opaque standards you or people like you're get to ask "questions".

I don't want to put words into this particular guy's mouth, but there is a general trend you see in some parts of the "gaming community" where they essentially see people who don't immediately come off as "nerdy" (as defined by various arbitrary behavior/appearance markers) as intruders until proven otherwise. This makes about as much sense to me as readers getting mad at people who read books and don't wear glasses.

 

[El Dwarfio]

Recently Destructoid writer Ryan Perez made a couple comments about Felicia Day on his Twitter account

''Ryan?s questions to Felicia were as follows: ?I keep seeing [you] everywhere. Question: Do you matter at all? Do you even provide anything useful to gaming, besides ?personality?? could you be considered nothing more than a glorified booth babe? You don?t seem to add anything creative to the medium.?''

Following total uproar Ryan was pressured into resigning from his position with Destructoid as D-toid issued apologies to Miss Day. Other figures such as Adam Baldwin and Wil Wheaton have come out in support of Felicia. But quite frankly...isn't he right? What of substance has she contributed to the gaming medium?

While some of his comments could be interpreted as insulting he made a valid point that much of the gaming community has echoed previously. And besides that,it was his private Twitter which was in no way associated with D-toid and he never claimed he spoke for D-toid. People now flock to his Twitter, calling him ''sick'' and a ''misogynist'' (the latter is quite confusing as he never made any comment that was anti-woman,simply anti-Day). Does a man deserve to lose his job for some opinions he holds privately?

Wile I wouldnt go as far to call the comments sick or mysognostic, they are a bit out of order. I mean what kind of self entitled **** is this guy? I mean seriously, why was this needed to be publicly said? The douchebag deserved everything he got.

As for Felicia, doesn't she act or someshit? if so then there's your answer.

 

[Vault101]

How exactly has Felicia Day made it clear shes a gamer? People keep saying this, and acting like The Guild is some kind of proof, but it's not. Gaming is simply the situational basis for a comedy in The Guild, much in the way that actually Fantasy Football is a situational basis for the comedy in The League.

you seem to have some set "idea" of what a gamer "is"...this attitude isnt always agood thing, promotes "us vs them" and (gotta say it) I think it fules the urge to attack members of the xx chromozome gender for not fitting to "your" definition of gamer

[quote/]I love how so many people are quick to jump on Ryan Perez as sexist and then say this sort of trite "the only problem is whether you believe her or not and clearly you don't just because she happens to have boobs," with no regard. First of all, Felicia Day has boobs like your average teenage boy has boobs. Secondly, just no, I have issue with her specifically, not an issue with all females prominent in gaming culture.[/quote]

no, I don't think thats what people are saying, as i saida guy made a mistake...you could even call it tragic...this kind of thing can hurt careers

regardless of weather or not it was gender related he was being a dick and was out of line...regardless

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

I agree with your Chobot thing, Felicia is actually an actress so it's all fair enough but honestly, questioning famous composers about what they've done for films is completely different from asking an actress who is treated like a gaming celebrity even though she has very little to do with the actual industry.

So, composers contribute to their industry but performers don't? Odd line to draw there.

She's been in..what 1 set of DLC for 1 game? Ok then, it's like asking an extra in a film what they contribute.

No, it's like asking an ACTOR what they contribute. Voice acting is acting even if it's one role in one game. THAT IS A CONTRIBUTION. John Cazale was in a handful of films before he died of cancer. He contributed to the world of film.

Serious, she's a film and tv actress, the only reason she is a gaming celebrity is because she likes them and she's a girl.

AND because of The Guild, which is the thing that got her noticed. Which is about a bunch of people playing a game. So there's that.

Yes, she has contributed to gaming but in Dragon Age 2, she contributed to 1 DLC in 1 game and while that may be a contribution I still think my extra thing is apt as I'm sure some extras have more screentime than Felicia has had time acting in a game and therefore must contribute more to their medium, right?

Well, for the record, I don't go on Twitter and say "What has Extra X contributed to the world of film? Justify your existence!"

Also, voice acting is more performing than extra-ing. There's a significant difference. Just ask SAG.

Oh no, I don't agree with what the guy did, I just don't think what he said would or should have any impact on anyone, maybe Felicia could feel a bit hurt about the thing and sure being fired from Destructoid is fine, that's all his stupid fault but our outrage is ridiculous

and some extras have voices, and a lot of work, it all depends on the scope but I don't think she's done much at all for gaming except get a lot of fans for doing very little

An extra is a nonspeaking role by definition. You're thinking of bit players, which isn't really a technical term, but even then, hey, everyone can be important. I don't see why we have to denigrate everyone.

As for "doing very little", how many web series have you written and starred in? I mean, that is a thing. It is a big thingy.

The web series wasn't for gaming but...I kinda could do a web series, I studied and made plenty of video and audio for about 5 years so...yeah but I mean in gaming and so if Bioware want to approach me and give me a bit part in Mass Effect 3's DLC I'd be happy to do so

(If you're reading and you need an English accent from an English male I'd be happy to help you)

 

[mindlesspuppet]

I'm sorry, but what male gamers for example? Most the time male gamers don't have to "prove themselves" because that's pretty much the first thing they did to gain notoriety.

If Yahtzee, Jim Sterling, Toby Turner, TotalBiscuit etc didn't make it painfully apparent they are gamers in the first place no one would know who they are. Hell, it was one of the first things Nathan Barnatt did before the crazy dance videos and he really didn't need to.

So you're saying that anyone who isn't immediately identifiable as a "gamer" must "prove themselves" before talking about or working in games?

AND if that person doesn't meet your arbitrary, meaningless and completely opaque standards you or people like you're get to ask "questions".

Nope not at all.

Remember MTV cribs back in the day? Practically every celebrity talked about playing Xbox with their friends and such, this was fine. None we're going out of their way to be a part of gaming culture, acting like any sort of authority on it, or stating that they played Xbox to increase their fanbase.

Also, nah, plenty of talent writers and artists in the gaming industry don't give two shits about gaming -- it's just a job to them.

Jennifer Hale has been in a ton of games because she is an incredibly talented voice actress. She has never pandered to the gaming audience, hell, the first we really heard from her was ala ME.

Felicia Day is significantly less talented, but gets work and featured at expos because of notoriety she gained via gaming communities and her niche audience of gamers that put her on a pedestal because she's "female gamer".

 

[Moonlight Butterfly]

snip

Nice knock at her there with the boob comment. Nice to know what really matters to you!.

She has mentioned gaming many times in her interviews done specific work for games and this is from her blog

I know, for ME, when I started this road with The Guild, I had NO women to look at who were not wearing bikinis while they gamed. There was no ?relatable? woman/girl figure for me to look to, and that?s why Codex, Clara and Tink are EXACTLY NOT THAT: Because that?s not who I personally gamed with, that bikini-chick. I gamed with moms and angry college students and shut-ins. So to be accused of pandering Girl Gamer, of BEING A CASUAL (whatever the EFF that means)?well, it hurt. But the comments from MY viewers, who didn?t wanna be bullied, that made my night. So thanks to all of you who commented, even if you didn?t like the video, who defended ?casuals? and ?girl gamers?. Whatever label you slap on it, it?s just another way to hate.

So it's down to you whether to believe her or not. Like I said. Just like whether we believe Nathan Fillion or Yahtzee.

 

[major_chaos]

This is true, in that he would have never made this comment about a Felix Day who leveraged his Joss Whedon geek cred into voice-acting gigs in games. (You don't see this guy going off on Nolan North or Nathan Fillion, for instance.)

Well he did say Wil Wheaton was "an opportunistic puddle of miscarriage soup" so he is at least partly an equal opportunity asshole.

OT: Yea, guy is an asshole, deserved to be fired, but I really don't get his "so I've been seeing you everywhere" statement. The only things I recognize her from are two video game voice roles, The Guild and an episode of house, and while according to Wikipedia she has been in a fair number of roles, I don't see how she qualifies to be singled out as "everywhere" so it almost seems to me like the Destructoid guy had something against her. (not in any way trying to say what he did was ok, just wondering if there was a motive or if he just has a massive temper issue)

 

[mindlesspuppet]

snip...

regardless of weather or not it was gender related he was being a dick and was out of line...regardless

Being a dick is kind of par for the course on Destructiod.

 

[burningdragoon]

I'm sorry, but what male gamers for example? Most the time male gamers don't have to "prove themselves" because that's pretty much the first thing they did to gain notoriety.

If Yahtzee, Jim Sterling, Toby Turner, TotalBiscuit etc didn't make it painfully apparent they are gamers in the first place no one would know who they are. Hell, it was one of the first things Nathan Barnatt did before the crazy dance videos and he really didn't need to.

So you're saying that anyone who isn't immediately identifiable as a "gamer" must "prove themselves" before talking about or working in games?

AND if that person doesn't meet your arbitrary, meaningless and completely opaque standards you or people like you're get to ask "questions".

I don't want to put words into this particular guy's mouth, but there is a general trend you see in some parts of the "gaming community" where they essentially see people who don't immediately come off as "nerdy" (as defined by various arbitrary behavior/appearance markers) as intruders until proven otherwise. This makes about as much sense to me as readers getting mad at people who read books and don't wear glasses.

You mean I don't have to wear my incognito glasses whenever I'm reading something in public? That's a relief.

 

[Kahunaburger]

This is true, in that he would have never made this comment about a Felix Day who leveraged his Joss Whedon geek cred into voice-acting gigs in games. (You don't see this guy going off on Nolan North or Nathan Fillion, for instance.)

Well he did say Wil Wheaton was "an opportunistic puddle of miscarriage soup" so he is at least partly an equal opportunity asshole.

But in that case, he was:

A) responding to a pretty scathing remark.
B) not using a gendered insult.

So I don't really see it as analogous.

 

[TAdamson]

I'm sorry, but what male gamers for example? Most the time male gamers don't have to "prove themselves" because that's pretty much the first thing they did to gain notoriety.

If Yahtzee, Jim Sterling, Toby Turner, TotalBiscuit etc didn't make it painfully apparent they are gamers in the first place no one would know who they are. Hell, it was one of the first things Nathan Barnatt did before the crazy dance videos and he really didn't need to.

Oh really? Because when I saw the first Jim Sterling or a Yahtzee video I didn't know anything about him? They are just some guy on the internet they could tell you anything. For all you know they could just be looking stuff up on google! They could be just getting someone else to write the reviews!!! (Being sarcastic obviously)

Felicia Day has made it clear she is a gamer so the only problem is whether you believe her or not and clearly you don't just because she happens to have boobs.

May have missed the point. You likely would have never seen Jim Sterling or Yahtzee if, as I already said, they didn't prove themselves to begin with. Maybe when you saw them for the first time you didn't know what to make of them, but that doesn't mean they hadn't been at it for sometime. Many were first exposed to them here on The Escapist, but they had been doing their thing long before that.

How exactly has Felicia Day made it clear shes a gamer? People keep saying this, and acting like The Guild is some kind of proof, but it's not. Gaming is simply the situational basis for a comedy in The Guild, much in the way that actually Fantasy Football is a situational basis for the comedy in The League.

I love how so many people are quick to jump on Ryan Perez as sexist and then say this sort of trite "the only problem is whether you believe her or not and clearly you don't just because she happens to have boobs," with no regard. First of all, Felicia Day has boobs like your average teenage boy has boobs. Secondly, just no, I have issue with her specifically, not an issue with all females prominent in gaming culture.

It's the elitist opinions of people like you that result in us having less women who play games.

Why the fuck does she have to "make it clear shes a gamer"?

And on Ryan Perez: He got fired because he was an unprofessional retard. And by disparaging her her input into gaming culture by suggesting that she "could be considered nothing more than a glorified booth babe", he made himself a sexist unprofessional retard.

If he had just said "I don't think you know what you're talking about" he's still be unprofessional and a retard.

 

[6_Qubed]

Warning: Long post is long.

From Wikipedia, abridged and lightly opinionated for flavor; Felisha Day has been on several TV shows, several web serieseses including Dr. Horrible's Sing-Along Blog, a whole slew of movies I've never heard of, is on the Board of Directors for the International Academy of Web Television, (which sounds impressive) and last but not least voiced a character in at least one popular video game that I liked.

So yes, she is in fact relevant to quite a number of things and interests, (Board of Directors, dude.) it's just that most of them aren't video gaming. It is however unfair to say that she's a "glorified booth babe" (Board of Directors, dude.) just because she hasn't written for or designed a game of her own. Most "famous" video game people haven't. We can't all be Yahtzee, folks. The human population wouldn't last past the current generation.

Felecia Day is an actress, and a geeky one at that, she just also happens through no fault of her own to be a gorgeous redheaded ladyperson. This is not an isolated problem; There is this pervading logic that exists that attractive does not equal intelligent. This is untrue, and here is some algebra to help illustrate the point I'm trying to make;

(Hot =/= Smart) =/= Truth

I've really got to find a "does not equal" button for my keyboard... Anyway! Felicia Day being attractive doesn't detract from her qualification for geekdom, and we've got to get it out of our collective heads that it does. Need a reason? Here's a real simple one; WE'RE SCARING ALL THE HOT GEEKY GIRLS AWAY. You know that girl that you see everyday in where-ever that you want to spend all day talking about Bill Murray movies and that one Skyrim character you made that's based on Bill Murray? She might actually be interested and not want you to know because she'd be in for a world of shit if she admitted geekdom.

I'd like to think, however, that this guy who said these things, if he were not merely posting them on his personal Twitter thing, (I wouldn't say "private" because if he wanted privacy he wouldn't be on fucking Twitter,) if he were actually voicing these questions to Ms. Day, he'd have the presence of mind to word them differently. An example would be "How are you relevant to gaming? What, of merit, have you contributed to the medium? Have you set your sights on any noteworthy video game opportunities?" That's a far better way to ask the question, keeping the directness with none of the hostility, and including an opening for the subject to actually answer the fucking question. Although the big thing to remember here is that he was not actually posing these questions to Felicia Day. He wasn't actually saying them, he was just musing to himself. Personally, I regularly wish death and AIDS on everyone I share the road with, but I don't necessarily want to hurt anyone, I'm just venting frustration. I imagine that's what this guy was doing.

So, to sum up and conclude; No, a person should not be fired for their personal opinion, assuming of course that they can keep it to themselves.

Which this guy couldn't.

 

[V8 Ninja]

At face value I don't see much wrong in those statements. Reword the "Do you matter at all?" statement and I think the statement is fine. I could easily see this as mistaken implications from everybody. However, judging from the rest of Ryan Perez's Twitter messages, I'm going to assume he didn't just forget to carefully craft his words to more accurately get his point across.

at face vaule it kind of implies "women are only in the gming biz because they are attractive"

but ASIDE from that its a real dick move to go around and say "justify yourself to me!"..regardless of weather or not its motivated by gender

I don't see how you're getting that first point (attractive women only existing in the video game industry because they're attractive) from his statements; he pointed out one specific person rather than saying "All women involved in video games are like booth babes!" and he pointed out a practice that involves women rather than pointing to the idea that women involved in video games is some sort of shameless and useless act. On the second point...yeah, that went under my radar.

 

[Ympulse]

Also Felicia Day is quite famous and pretty damn awesome and not very random.

Personally, I've always known her as "that actress chick that nerdbaits"

The only thing she's done in gaming is play a sexed-up lesbian in F:NV (That I'm aware of). THAT is why she's famous.

Frankly, it's embarrassing that a b-level actress is fawned over so much JUST BECAUSE she is a female. for funzies, let's make this a comparison. Vin Diesel, that action movie guy, is an absolute role model and also loves him some D&D. Why does the tabletop gaming community ignore that fact that he exists? If Vinny was an equally "gifted" female and nothing else changed, just how much attention would be thrown his way?

So yes, in closing, FDay is just a nerdbaiting B-level actress with nothing worthwhile in her resume.

OT: Calling her out publicly when you're an intern is a bit stupid, gotta say.