The Felicia Day/Destructoid situation

[hooksashands]

This guy is a putz. Why would you say that about someone?

I don't care for booth babes either but The Guild more or less represents videogame culture in its own way. She's a nerd. She's earned her stripes. Fuck off if you're gonna call someone's existential validity into question.

 

[everythingbeeps]

The only part that could even be interpreted as sexist in there is the booth babe thing but in an industry that supports booth babes, it is a totally valid and non sexist remark.

However, he was using "glorified booth babe" as an insult. Which, in the context of what you pointed out, is interesting. What does it say about the "gaming community" when most major gaming events are staffed by scantily-clad female staff but said scantily-clad female staff are disrespected to the point that comparison to one is an insult?

That's actually a great point. I wonder how many people voluntarily go to Hooters and say "look at those waitresses, how pathetic".

 

[Kahunaburger]

I think that's probably true - there's also the issue of "this woman is attractive, but she would never give me the time of day outside of her job unless I took a shower and hit the gym. That would require effort, so instead I will be a dick to her for no real reason."

Disagree on gym part (unless she specifically says that she prefers buff guys), confidence is the key, not muscles. Which should be the clue as to why these ungjävlarna are harassing folks like Day. I am with you on the shower part all the way though.

As an aside, I apologize in advance for nagging you on this bit, but I am curious as to what you thought about the "men do, women are" post I made yesterday for you, are.

I thought it was a great point - there are definitely differences in the way people evaluate men and women with equivalent resumes, and I thought your explanation as tovwhy that is was really good.

 

[Thistlehart]

Now here's a bad case of ABS (Associative Butthurt Syndrome (aka Internet Drama)).

So many people getting upset on the behalf of another. And with such passion!

Spoiler: Quite amusing.

 

[Hjalmar Fryklund]

I thought it was a great point - there are definitely differences in the way people evaluate men and women with equivalent resumes, and I thought your explanation as tovwhy that is was really good.

Thanks. I will add something more to it here. I would say that it isn't the end-all-be-all explanation for this phenomena (mostly to avoid painting everybody with a broad brush), and that it is a belief that easily sneaks up on you without you noticing. Why do I say the latter? Becuase I have caught myself feeling like that on multiple occasions, despite having thought that I had rejected it previously.

And of course, to clarify: Both genders are susceptible to this type of thinking. It is just that men, coming from a position of privelige, do not notice this as often because it is seen as the way things just are.

 

[Xanthious]

Leave it to the gaming community to get collectively butt hurt over the smallest thing then wildly overreact. Furthermore, god help you should it involve a woman because then the shit really starts to fly.

But really, let's be honest, isn't Felicia Day just a glorified booth babe? Honestly, outside of a few gigs she's gotten because of her glorified booth babe status what has really been her claim to fame among the gaming community? I guess if you have a vagina and your first reaction isn't to reach for your can of mace when brought within speaking distance of someone rocking a neck beard you now get "mad cred" in the gaming community.

 

[Kahunaburger]

I thought it was a great point - there are definitely differences in the way people evaluate men and women with equivalent resumes, and I thought your explanation as tovwhy that is was really good.

Thanks. I will add something more to it here. I would say that it isn't the end-all-be-all explanation for this phenomena (mostly to avoid painting everybody with a broad brush), and that it is a belief that easily sneaks up on you without you noticing. Why do I say the latter? Becuase I have caught myself feeling like that on multiple occasions, despite having thought that I had rejected it previously.

And of course, to clarify: Both genders are susceptible to this type of thinking. It is just that men, coming from a position of privelige, do not notice this as often because it is seen as the way things just are.

Yeah - I think one of the most damaging misconceptions with racism/sexism/homophobia/etc. is that people think that we have to be a terrible person or intentionally try to be bigoted to produce prejudiced behavior. More often than not, it's not even conscious, and I'm definitely with you in having occasional "wait, I'm thinking what?" moments.

 

[Hjalmar Fryklund]

Thanks. I will add something more to it here. I would say that it isn't the end-all-be-all explanation for this phenomena (mostly to avoid painting everybody with a broad brush), and that it is a belief that easily sneaks up on you without you noticing. Why do I say the latter? Becuase I have caught myself feeling like that on multiple occasions, despite having thought that I had rejected it previously.

And of course, to clarify: Both genders are susceptible to this type of thinking. It is just that men, coming from a position of privelige, do not notice this as often because it is seen as the way things just are.

Yeah - I think one of the most damaging misconceptions with racism/sexism/homophobia/etc. is that people think that we have to be a terrible person or intentionally try to be bigoted to produce prejudiced behavior. More often than not, it's not even conscious, and I'm definitely with you in having occasional "wait, I'm thinking what?" moments.

Mmm-hmm. I guess we could alleviate parts of the problem by simply removing a lot of the venom associated with the prejudice stamp. But on the other hand, that might just give us less incentive to not being prejudiced.

It feels a bit like a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation, which makes me question the point of discussing it. Unless it becomes necessary to reflect on the prejduice stamp´s connotations, of course.

Frustrating subject indeed.

In any case, it is probably good for one´s sanity to remind ourselves that if you asked most people in general (at least where I live) if they were for equality these days, they would answer "yes." The problems tend to set in when they don't understand the ramifications that equality entails.

 

[Knight Templar]

There are a couple of things. I think that he didn't need to loose his job because he has the right to express his opinion, however I do think that he could've worked on the delivery. I mean, Glorified booth babe is not the best way to start a discussion.

Actually, he lost his job because when people defended her, a little switch flipped in his brain that changed his mode of thinking from, "Petulant Douche" to "Duke of Angryfuck."

He was even the person who made the "first suggestion to cut ties with Dtoid".

He knew he did something wrong.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Four voice credits and keeping the discussion about gaming alive is still more then the guy who made the original tweet. Whatever or not Felicia Day is a talented actress is beside the point, the point is that this kind of spiteful opinion is never seen leveraged against men. The whole "glorified booth babe" opinion is inherently sexist because it somehow assumes that Felicia Day is only a "celebrity" within gaming because she looks good (and last time I checked, most gamers are still discussing whatever she is or not) and that any other thing, like her voice work, was only landed because she looks good.

You don't need to go into hardcore feminism mode to see how his tweets had a sexist undertone, even if that wasn't their primary message. In fact, just remove the "personality" remark and booth babe sentence out of his original tweet and look at it again. Far less sexist while still retaining his "criticism" against Felicia Day. This is how sexism is perpetuated, not by conscious decisions to "put some bitches down" but by unconscious choices of words, sloppily thought through criticism against professional women ("Are you just a glorified booth babe?" seriously, who can't see the sexism in that?) and lots of people who doesn't see the sexism because it is so extremly common that we don't think much about it.

Consider: If Perez would have wanted to "criticize" Nolan North in the same way, would Mr. North's looks even have been mentioned? Or would the remarks be about what a worthless voice actor he is?

NOThING YOU SAY IS RELEVANT TO MY POST! I did not dispute the blatant sexism inherent in the questioning. I said NOLAN NORTH was not a valid comparison. Now, as others, including the troll/functional illiterate post that I will respond to next, have already mentioned Nathan Fillion, who IS a valid comparison. Nolan North is not banking on his celebrity. Day and Fillion both are.

Well, if (in your mind) experience with video game voice acting mean that Nolan North is liek so differant guise from Felicia Day that we can't use him as an analogy, how about Nathan Fillion? Or Will Wheaton? Or Vin Deisel? All were brought up multiple times by multiple people in this thread, none had would-be games journalists calling them "glorified booth babes."

Why? Because this sort of attack is a sadly common one that is aimed pretty much exclusively at women, not just in the games industry.

Herp derp de bap, I did not point out who would be a valid comparison because it was not relevant to my post.


Now let me pick apart the examples, just to be a dick: Day and Fillion and Wheaton are the same level of pointlessness, because the big draw about them is "Lookit! I'm totally hip to the crowd!" and banking on geek cred/celebrity. Diesel is sort of the same, except that he hasn't had as much to do with the culture in recent history following the disaster that was Vin Diesel's Wheelman starring Vin Diesel as Vin Diesel playing Vin Diesel in a Vin Diesel Movie.

Wanna know an even better example of a pure marketing gimmick actor? Kristen Bell in Screed. Nothing but a blatant "Oh, you guys like her, right? well then you'll love our game! cuz shes in it!"
Screed had a big problem with that, actually. Damn Ubisoft, you sexist.

Which brings me around to a different point: who cares if Day is just a booth babe? Anyone? Unless you just DON'T LIKE felicia day, she is either a pleasant addition to the party or at worst another warm body in the seat. She's a decent enough actress, and has had the good sense not to do something to ruin her image, so fuck it, who cares if she shows up in things even as a gimmick?

 

[LordDPS]

Hmm... I wonder what Ryan Perez has "provided to gaming." Oh, wait, nobody asks that question because he has a Y chromosome and it's not a good question.

A /thread in the first post right here. Does everyone who likes games have to have contributed something to the medium to justify our place here? If so, a lot of us should probably be packing our bags ready to fuck right off then, myself included.

She's just a person, who likes games and is also well known, kinda like the female Nathan Fillion really, and I don't see anybody calling him a "glorified booth babe", quite the opposite. I don't think the gaming community could love him more even if he was. If people want to talk to her about games because she's a well known person who likes games then she has every right to express her opinions. It doesn't make her any kind of gaming journalist or expert, but as far as I know she's never claimed to be either of those things so what does it matter?

I swear, if I had a quid for every time I've ever asked myself, "Why is this even a thing?"...

This, It pretty much explained my opinion for me.

 

[Kahunaburger]

troll/functional illiterate

Well, if (in your mind) experience with video game voice acting mean that Nolan North is liek so differant guise from Felicia Day that we can't use him as an analogy, how about Nathan Fillion? Or Will Wheaton? Or Vin Deisel? All were brought up multiple times by multiple people in this thread, none had would-be games journalists calling them "glorified booth babes."

Why? Because this sort of attack is a sadly common one that is aimed pretty much exclusively at women, not just in the games industry.

Herp derp de bap, I did not point out who would be a valid comparison because it was not relevant to my post.

Okay, so in other words you're more interested in nitpicking based on criteria you made up than you are in actually engaging with the discussion. Thank you for your valuable contribution to this thread!

But on the off-chance that you actually are interested in engaging...

Day and Fillion and Wheaton are the same level of pointlessness, because the big draw about them is "Lookit! I'm totally hip to the crowd!" and banking on geek cred/celebrity. Diesel is sort of the same, except that he hasn't had as much to do with the culture in recent history following the disaster that was Vin Diesel's Wheelman starring Vin Diesel as Vin Diesel playing Vin Diesel in a Vin Diesel Movie.

Notice how none of these people have forums and journalists calling them "glorified booth babes."

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Thank you for your valuable contribution to this thread!

You're welcome! glad I could brighten up your day

Notice how none of these people have forums and journalists calling them "glorified booth babes."

and perhaps you'll notice I already said that the man was in the wrong.

 

[Tipsy Giant]

Didn't she make original content in the form of a web series about gaming.......didn't he write for a shitty site whose great content is all partner shows?

 

[DustyDrB]

Okay, so in other words you're more interested in nitpicking based on criteria you made up than you are in actually engaging with the discussion. Thank you for your valuable contribution to this thread!

But on the off-chance that you actually are interested in engaging.

Yep. Lots of this [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW87GRmunMY] going on in the thread. Few people try to engage in discussion, and instead just try to "win the argument" (there's one guy in the thread who even blatantly talks about winning the argument). But yeah, backed into a corner, people just try to change what they're debating about. It's why I rarely even argue online.

 

[Dumbfish1]

Does a man deserve to lose his job for some opinions he holds privately?

Twitter is hardly private, in fact it's the exact opposite.

OT He's obviously wrong, she's an actor, writer, very creative jobs. The Guild is massively successful for a show about socially awkward MMOers. THe reason people claim he's misogynistic is that he's implying that because she's pretty it's obvious that's her only talent.

 

[Krion_Vark]

But seeing as how she did what everyone should have done which was just ignore it but people had decided to White Knight themselves and jump at Ryan.

So here's a question. When you speak in the defense of a woman, is it always White Knighting because she's a woman? Or does it change depending on your motivation for doing so? I just want to make sure that's clear.

Depends on the situation. It seems like Felicia Day didn't even pay this guy any attention and yet a bunch of people jumped up to defend her. That is being a White Knight.
Like I said that at this point in time she makes no mention of anything the guy had said. I could be wrong because tweets can be erased fairly easily. But in the way the situation seems to have played out its a bunch of people jumping up to defend her when she didn't see it as a problem at all.

Just because you erase it doesn't mean the person you pissed off doesn't have a screen copy. Once its out, it is out.

You do realize I am talking about Felicia Day on the erasing Tweets. You can find Ryan's just about anywhere but if she made any back there is not a clue. The only tweet I see for this whole thing is one thanking dtoid for asking to calm the fans down.

 

[Savagezion]

The only part that could even be interpreted as sexist in there is the booth babe thing but in an industry that supports booth babes, it is a totally valid and non sexist remark.

However, he was using "glorified booth babe" as an insult. Which, in the context of what you pointed out, is interesting. What does it say about the "gaming community" when most major gaming events are staffed by scantily-clad female staff but said scantily-clad female staff are disrespected to the point that comparison to one is an insult?

Additionally, we don't have male models dressing in a sheet portrayong Kratos. The only times cosplay or booth models are used at booths is when female sex appeal is being used for marketing purposes. Most of Day's fans are men in the gaming community who profess their love for her, not their respect for her. (This is not to say she is not respected but the word 'love' is often emphasized in these remarks in a way I don't hear anyone use towards a male.) There is sound logic in his claims and any sexism found in his claims don't necessarily mean his claims are sexist but perhaps popular reaction to Day is sexist. I see a lot of killing the messenger here. A lot of his comment is that from his perspective the community is being sexist. Then he is being called sexist for pointing it out.