The final Final Fantasy (will it ever be final?)
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When Square Enix chose not to bring Final Fantasy Type-0 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Fantasy_Type-0] to English speaking lands, that was when the series became "final" for me. Keep your Lightning fluff SQEX, and I'll keep my money.
Why so hateful of War of the Lions? It was the exact same game, except with an accurate translation. Could have done without the ye olde english, I guess, but it did fit with the setting.krazykidd said:
Final fantasy isn't going anywhere anytime soon, anymore than JRPGs in general are dying off. their western mainstream appeal is fading, sure, but all it takes is one big hit to turn that around, and even if that hit never comes, it'll always have a niche.
If there's one thing my decades of gaming has taught me, it's that nostalgia is a powerful enough force in the gaming community to keep any franchise alive.
Oh, and obligatory "I like FF8, just so the thread reflects it's not universally reviled, yadayada" from me.
Having played 1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 9, 10, 10-2, 12, 13, 13-2, and Tactics Advance (having played only half way through 5, 6, Tactics War of the Lions, Crystal Chronicles), I've only felt the series tinkering with itself with each installment. There have been things connecting them, a large number of things remaining the same (potions, phoenix downs, fire, ice, ect.) but there usually being mixups and changes, small touches, major changes, overhauls.
No Job Classes for - 2, 7, 8, 12
Switch Job Classes - 3, 5, 10-2, Tactics, 13, 13-2
Alterable Jobs for - 6, 10
Strict Job Classes - 4, 9
People have their favorites, as well as entries they think are garbage, throughout the series. However you feel about 13 it should really only end up as a road bump. The only thing that's really hurt is it's only been 13, 14, and Dissidia these last few years. 14 being an MMO with one really rough launch, and then being re-released. Dissidia a fighting game. The 13 series having a faulty start with 13, and so 13-2 and Lightning Returns, no matter what they do/did would, in a lot of people's eyes be judged on by 13, rather than themselves. It's been a bumpy few years. A bad entry here and there, is par for the course, granted the only Final Fantasy game I played that I didn't like was 13, I like(d) the characters, the fact they changed up the battle system, the battle system itself, and I don't mind the basic idea of the overall story (sort of dick angels/devils using mortals as their playthings and hoping daddy God comes back - just they convoluted the crap out of it). But 13 had more things I didn't like about it, so meh.
For the heck of it - Favorite Final Fantasy games are - 8 and 4.
No Job Classes for - 2, 7, 8, 12
Switch Job Classes - 3, 5, 10-2, Tactics, 13, 13-2
Alterable Jobs for - 6, 10
Strict Job Classes - 4, 9
People have their favorites, as well as entries they think are garbage, throughout the series. However you feel about 13 it should really only end up as a road bump. The only thing that's really hurt is it's only been 13, 14, and Dissidia these last few years. 14 being an MMO with one really rough launch, and then being re-released. Dissidia a fighting game. The 13 series having a faulty start with 13, and so 13-2 and Lightning Returns, no matter what they do/did would, in a lot of people's eyes be judged on by 13, rather than themselves. It's been a bumpy few years. A bad entry here and there, is par for the course, granted the only Final Fantasy game I played that I didn't like was 13, I like(d) the characters, the fact they changed up the battle system, the battle system itself, and I don't mind the basic idea of the overall story (sort of dick angels/devils using mortals as their playthings and hoping daddy God comes back - just they convoluted the crap out of it). But 13 had more things I didn't like about it, so meh.
For the heck of it - Favorite Final Fantasy games are - 8 and 4.
I'm not sure it was "accurate" so much as it "made sense." It took a lot of creative liberties.balladbird said:
I wouldn't have minded the olde English (loved it in Vagrant Story, it worked in XII), except they did it pretty badly. It just read really awkwardly most of the time and it didn't flow. Still better than the PS1 game's translation, though.
As expected, there are many points of views, opinions and statements within this thread and first off I want to thank you all for the honest replies.
There isn't much to say about FF what hasn't been said already, apart from angry rants but I would still like to state my own mind.
I have pretty much played every entry of FF so far, excluding a few spin-offs and everything after XIII and I am, or was a huge fan of Square since I played my first Final fantasy, FF VI.
It is true that a franchise should evolve with every step and not constantly re-release the same stuff over and over again, Square Enix somehow managing to fluently switch between those two options but as far as I am concerned "evolve" means to change for the better in every direction, not degrading things as story, sensible character arcs and common sense in general to improve graphics and... well... something else.
I more or less enjoyed every number from FF I to XII and somehow even took a liking in the newer settings, though strange-voiced teenies clashing peculiar weaponized objects against each other aren't really my thing... anymore, but I guess there is a limit to every kind of love one could have for old series. My limit being Lightning Returns.
No need to go into detail why I don't like it. I just do not care for anything happening there, be it the characters, their overly emotional acting or the constant drag that is the plot. simple as that.
But who am I kidding, like always I will await the next entry, take a look at it in a naive impulse of fake hope and either try to stomach whatever Square's throwing at me or drop it down, never to look at anything remotely FF for a couple months. Stupid nostalgic feelings... always getting the better of me...
Thank you for all the replies yet again people, it helped to set my mind straight for some time.
Feel free to post further opinions of yours, I'd be glad to hear more of what you folks think.
There isn't much to say about FF what hasn't been said already, apart from angry rants but I would still like to state my own mind.
I have pretty much played every entry of FF so far, excluding a few spin-offs and everything after XIII and I am, or was a huge fan of Square since I played my first Final fantasy, FF VI.
It is true that a franchise should evolve with every step and not constantly re-release the same stuff over and over again, Square Enix somehow managing to fluently switch between those two options but as far as I am concerned "evolve" means to change for the better in every direction, not degrading things as story, sensible character arcs and common sense in general to improve graphics and... well... something else.
I more or less enjoyed every number from FF I to XII and somehow even took a liking in the newer settings, though strange-voiced teenies clashing peculiar weaponized objects against each other aren't really my thing... anymore, but I guess there is a limit to every kind of love one could have for old series. My limit being Lightning Returns.
No need to go into detail why I don't like it. I just do not care for anything happening there, be it the characters, their overly emotional acting or the constant drag that is the plot. simple as that.
But who am I kidding, like always I will await the next entry, take a look at it in a naive impulse of fake hope and either try to stomach whatever Square's throwing at me or drop it down, never to look at anything remotely FF for a couple months. Stupid nostalgic feelings... always getting the better of me...
Thank you for all the replies yet again people, it helped to set my mind straight for some time.
Feel free to post further opinions of yours, I'd be glad to hear more of what you folks think.
They might stop at Final Fantasy 29, if only because I can only imagine all the fun, jokes, and mockery that'll sprout up when SE tries to release Final Fantasy XXX.
As for favorites, I would say 2 continue to stand out to me.
As far as numbered series go, my favorite is FF9. I just love the characters and the world it takes place it. The story isn't all that great, but the script makes up for it.
As far as spin-offs go...Tactics, no doubt. Final Fantasy Tactics has one of the greatest stories I've ever seen in a game. I love it.
As for favorites, I would say 2 continue to stand out to me.
As far as numbered series go, my favorite is FF9. I just love the characters and the world it takes place it. The story isn't all that great, but the script makes up for it.
As far as spin-offs go...Tactics, no doubt. Final Fantasy Tactics has one of the greatest stories I've ever seen in a game. I love it.
Lightning as a character may be really popular (which means people apparently have shitty, shallow tastes in characters), but that doesn't mean the brand name as a whole isn't declining in relevance. For instance, the opening sales of Lightning Returns were only 18% of those of Final Fantasy XIII: http://www.siliconera.com/2013/11/27/lightning-returns-lowest-opening-sales-final-fantasy-xiii-game/Whatislove said:
If that doesn't spell "massive brand name hit," then I don't know what does.
EDIT:
You must not have played much Final Fantasy yourself to think that Final Fantasy veterans weren't accustomed to open worlds. Half the fun of the world map was going wherever you possibly could to find extra towns/dungeons and occasionally trying to fight powerful enemies early in order to grind.Whatislove said:
Plus, XIII's hallway shtick stung especially badly when the previous game, Final Fantasy XII, was one of the most open games in the entire series up to that point. Didn't even have to change screens/environments in order to battle enemies.
I just hope they make it long enough to produce Final Fantasy XXVII, if only to make that joke poster in Deus Ex Human Revolution a reality.Strain42 said:
I'm really curious to play FFXIV, I'm a fan of MMOs (yeah, I like tedious grinds) and FFXV looks promising, so yeah, if they don't pull off more FFXIII's (and VII's), I think the franchise has the potential to keep going for a few more years to come.
The ones I really liked were FFVII, FF Tactics A-2 and Vagrant Story (spin-off of a spin-off).
If only Square had the brains and common sense of releasing more Tactics games*...
[small]*The PSP game doesn't count, because it's the re-release of the PS1 game.[/small]
The ones I really liked were FFVII, FF Tactics A-2 and Vagrant Story (spin-off of a spin-off).
If only Square had the brains and common sense of releasing more Tactics games*...
[small]*The PSP game doesn't count, because it's the re-release of the PS1 game.[/small]
My first FF was VII, and while that game is quite good in it's own right, it's IX that won me over. That game had everything, a lovable and memorable cast of characters, an engaging story, fun combat that has you mixing and matching your party to cover each other's weaknesses, an absolutely amazing soundtrack, and one of the most heart warming and satisfying endings I've experienced in a game.
As fo XIII? I personally didn't think it was nearly as bad as most people say it is, but that game definitely had it's problems. And I felt the story should have stopped after the first one. No idea what SquareEnix is thinking right now, making sequels to a game a large portion of their consumer base seems to despise. Besides the whole Lightning Waifu thing that one guy apparently has that is.
As fo XIII? I personally didn't think it was nearly as bad as most people say it is, but that game definitely had it's problems. And I felt the story should have stopped after the first one. No idea what SquareEnix is thinking right now, making sequels to a game a large portion of their consumer base seems to despise. Besides the whole Lightning Waifu thing that one guy apparently has that is.
The FF brand has taken considerable damage in the states, and has fallen behind other JRPG's, like pokemon and Dragon Quest (also owned by SE) in Japan. It used to be the biggest JRPG series in the world, now that's not even true in Japan anymore. That's not to say it isn't financially successful (I never said that) it just isn't as successful as it used to be. The ex-president even admitted the brand had taken damage after FF14. There's a reason Type-0 wasn't released in the states.Whatislove said:
In any case FF13's story was actually its weakest asset, which is no surprise as its made by the same moron who made FF 10-2. Nomura, on the other hand, actually has some talent, but he hasn't released a major title since the PS2. He's also a touch too melodramatic, and tends to favor style over substance. The series isn't disapearing any time soon, but it's certainly pat its renaissance.
Yeah, but that reason is the PSP's declining popularity. IIRC the game was actually geared for a Western audience (this is apparently why it's so damn violent for a Final Fantasy game) and was also very well received by those who played it.Fox12 said:
If SE ever truly faced the risk of closure, they'd play their trump card: a full remake of Final Fantasy VII. SE has admitted they don't want to remake it until they surpass it, but with Toriyama's terrible XIII "saga" almost single handedly ruining the series mainstream reputation, and SE's insulting mobile efforts, FF has little to no credibility left. FFXV is do or die for Final Fantasy - if its not one of the best entries in the series, they're done.
Oh there will be a final Final Fantasy someday, that day just isn't soon enough for me. Oh I love the SNES generation and have even enjoyed watching my sister play through the early Playstation titles but nothing about the modern Final Fantasy sells itself to me. I'd much rather see FF die and release the talent that may still be associated with the brand. That way they could go out and make new IPs without the trappings of the FF label.
Final Fantasy needs a superb game, a title that hits the gaming industry with the kind of positive energy the Skyrim release had. That's what it would take for me to consider looking at buying one in the 20XX era.
Final Fantasy needs a superb game, a title that hits the gaming industry with the kind of positive energy the Skyrim release had. That's what it would take for me to consider looking at buying one in the 20XX era.
THANK YOU! LOGIC AND REASON! THEY DO EXIST!alphamalet said:
For me Final Fantasy XIII was my induction into the franchise. My initiation was Kingdom Hearts prior to that. I had zero point of reference of what FF "should be" unlike a lot of people who played XIII for the first time. Kind of interesting though since the series has been under constant change and evolution to try and stay relevant where some other golden age games do evolve but in ways people don't feel the need to say its not a X game. Looking at you Mario and Sonic. Most of the arguments I see written about XIII and its sequels come off as just angry. Rarely calm or collected and reasonable. As a result they might as well be saying "Its no muh Final Fantasy."
Sometimes you got to do different stuff to stay in the game. Look at Sega. Sonic Boom is probably the closest they've ever come to just rebooting Sonic. They are trying to keep Sonic relevant and in people's brains which can't be said about another certain blue titan that has been locked in a dungeon for years on end and is just withering away. *glares at capcom* Its a shame that the game I jumped on the Final Fantasy train with turned out to be the one where everyone jumped off. XIII-2 was a really damn good game actually. It also had one of the most unique in game puzzles I've ever played and it was a legitimate challenge. As in I can't remember the last time I needed a pen and paper to solve a puzzle, kind of challenge. Hell my mom and dad needed to help me and freaking 22!
So since I'm here my favorite Final Fantasy out of the 3 I have played so far is XIII-2. First game that made me cry.
I'd say that Final Fantasy isn't going anywhere for a LOOOONG time, and that for the most part the Final Fantasy series is pretty good. 1-10 were undoubtedly masterpieces, though 8's unnecessarily grindy magic junction system was a big problem. The MMOs though were merely cheap half-assed attempts to grab a piece of the WoW pie that should never have come into existence and 12's hybrid of a turn based and real time combat system was a boring slog that bogged down a game that would have otherwise been perfect. I consider 13 a return to form, a game that focuses on well written characters and story with effective character development over all else, the only real problem I had with it was it's retarded "if the leader dies it's over" thing, something that has never been a good idea in any game ever and I have no idea why developers keep doing it. I haven't yet played either 13-2 or 13-3 so I can't comment yet.
I have to really disagree with this. It wasn't the story itself that was it's weakest asset, but rather the way that they executed the story. To be perfectly honest.. after giving the series a chance and reading up on the lore, the bits of story they don't even include in the game (but do in codex entries that no-one reads, or simply omit because the execution of the entire story was horrific.) I actually found it to be pretty interesting, and found myself being happier about the fact that it spawned FF13-2&3.Fox12 said:
Bear in mind... I'm not praising it as the BeSt ThInG EvAR!!! - Just that the execution of it all was terribly poor and it really made the series suffer. Lost potential or some crap like that.
If SQEX did not want to publish Type-0 for PSP in the West, they could have gussied up a Vita port for the West instead. Rather SQEX is giving us a Vita port of Final Fantasy games we already have [http://www.amazon.com/FINAL-FANTASY-X-2-HD-Remaster-PlayStation/dp/B00HD4R5RW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393596118&sr=8-1&keywords=final+fantasy+x+vita]. And as far as Dragon Quest goes, SQEX isn't doing the West any favors there either [http://www.usgamer.net/articles/the-new-dark-age-of-dragon-quest]. The only reason the West even got Bravely Default is because Nintendo stepped up to the plate. I would buy Type-0 in English, I would buy the 3DS version of Dragon Quest VII in English, but I can't. Not as long as SQEX can make money selling DLC fashion accessories [http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_Lightning_Returns:_Final_Fantasy_XIII_Garbs] here instead.ScrabbitRabbit said: