The French speak French, the Spanish speak Spanish, The English speak?

[Pilkingtube]

Any language is going to have differences when spoken in locations so far apart. If you think Commonwealth English vs. American English is bad, you should check out European Portuguese vs. Brazilian Portuguese, they're almost like two different languages compared to English.

Yes, my question was not specifically aimed at the English language, it was simply picking the one that caused me to start the thread, i'm curious as to how other former colonies also treat their language such as Brazil and Mexico, by all means please discuss it!

The largest snip I have ever done in my life.

I profess ignorance to the filing systems used and as such defer to your knowledge, this is a thread to sate my curiosity, nothing more!

I never really thought about the efficiency of the filing system in terms of archiving, in modern times it would be on a computer obviously, but understandably 200 years ago I can see the benefits of altering the standard methods. Also, I can see the globalisation as being led by the US market into English being a common language too, who knows what may happen with China over the coming century, for better and for worse (though moving forwards I believe a common language is realistically for the better, regardless of origin!).

I have to say, before coming to the Escapist, i've never had anybody mention "British English", I come to understand it as an American term rather than an English one myself, primarily because the other two constituent countries, specifically the Scottish, aren't too keen on being lumped together with us English!

May I ask, what is the reasoning for the US system sticking to the Imperial measurement system, it is another topic that I am curious about.

 

[KingofallCosmos]

But but the swiss talk french, german and italian..?

Anyhoo I always thought the french spoke crap. Or Crêpe?

 

[masher]

The U.S. still hasn't changed over to the metric system.

I'll just leave that here.

We can be a stubborn people, unfortunately, and we appear to strongly value our, "Individuality," as a nation, which can be ironic in some cases.

Actually the U.S. have officially switched to metric long ago, people just kinda ignored it and kept using imperial, so the elected officials at the time just gave up and forgot about it.

OT: Its all about regional dialects. No matter what language it is, if it's spoken in several countries, there will always an addjective? to describe which region/country it is from.

OK, OK, then it's -citizens- can be stubborn.

But, yeah, you got me.

 

[Worgen]

we speak english and bad english

 

[vxicepickxv]

I'm not sure why the backwards date system is used, but the military uses DDMMMYY and 24 hour format for all of its documents. Just for the record.

I've seen people make similar distinctions between German dialects, like paelzisch, schweizerdeutsch, or even pennsilfaanisch-deitsch. Same thing with regional Chinese dialects or comparing mainland Mandarin to Taiwanese Mandarin or Singaporean Mandarin.

The military and doing things odd, let's see what I can do. I've seen YYYYMMDD DDMMYYYY MMDDYYYY DDMMMYY and one of my favorites, the Julian date. YYNNN where NNN is the actual numerical date starting at the beginning of the calendar year. January first of 2011 is written as 11001. Today being Saint Patrick's day is going to be 11076 day. Next year Saint Patrick's day will be 12077 day.

 

[Pilkingtube]

As a western Canadian, I call what the French in Europe speak "French" and what Quebec speaks as Quebecois. Also, being or Portuguese blood, Portugal has the language Portuguese and Brazil, as I call it, is Brazilian. I use the same for Spanish people speak Spanish and Mexicans speak Mexican. it is your country's dialect so why not name it after your country? It isn't just slang and accents when it is whole parts of the language that are different. It is a different language like the two kinds of Chinese, being Cantonese and Mandarin. Why should the origin of the language have to specify it is their version? Should the modified ones in other countries just come up with their own names for what they speak so it is more understandable. Like, "Hey, do you speak Spanish?" "What, Mexican or Spain?" It would be easier to just ask if they speak Mexican or Spanish. I mean, the name of the country is in the language.

This is indeed a part of my question, I am curious as to why rather than simply declaring the language seperate, much like Mexico or Brazil, the US system is instead sticking to American English and attempting to define British English, and i'm interested in seeing if that is a trend amongst a lot of other countries, it appears to be a more cultural topic than linguistic one. Also, out of curiosity, what is the French reaction to somebody speaking Quebecois, is there enough common ground to hold a proper conversation?

Also, on a less serious/curious note.. what is the reasoning behind the unsual order of the American Date System?

Goddammit, you had to bring up that flame bait question...

Spoiler: My Rant About That Topic

Really, for some odd reason lots of people here get into a pretentious fucking idiotic rage over this topic.

I get into a rage at how people keep spouting "Day-Month-Year is so logical and the totally right way to do things! No explaination needed!", while what I've come up with (and granted, since I suggested the idea I prefer my thought over others) is that: In most of the world, you say, "The third of January." or "The ninth of March.", so it'd make sense for you to write it out that way.

For us in the U.S., we've grown to say "January third." or "March ninth." so, obviously we'd write it like that.

That's why.

OT:

Living a continent away from the beginnings of our country for about 250 years, obviously the way we speak English, or whatever native language it might be for any country in the same situation, would be different in some way.

Please no! I'm not trying to flame bait, it's more of a curiosity, Therumancer has explained it as a case for efficiency with things such as archiving rather than saying dates aloud, which does make sense.

 

[Mike Laserbeam]

The English speak English. I don't know what citizens of the USA think we're speaking, but I'll tell you now, I'm pretty sure it's English.

Also, for anybody in the US that thinks that we in the UK use the metric system for everything, you're wrong. Our schools teach it, and we use it for calculations and stuff (Science, maths, because that only makes sense) but if you asked me how tall I was in metres, I'd tell you that I'm exactly six foot and that if you can't deal with the measurement system my people invented, you can go back to France!!

(Just kidding France, I love you really)

 

[Ekonk]

The thread title made me think of this gem:
I speak Spanish to God, Italian to women, French to men and German to my horse.

 

[Pilkingtube]

we speak english and bad english

I'm not trying to slander the American dialect in any way, it was simply an example of how languages can drift apart and at what point they should simply be declared seperate languages such as Mexico and Brazil have done. The American dialect itself is not inherently poor English, just an adaptation of the original language for a different culture.

 

[Agayek]

"British English"...? I've never even HEARD that before.
It's just English, that's all it's ever been. There's the 'Americanization' of English, which basically just means switching a few words and making all the 'U's sound like 'A's.

Depending on where you live, it's fairly common to refer to one as "*insert country name here* English" and the one you speak "real" English. It's not a big deal either way, but it is a fairly common nomenclature.

 

[vxicepickxv]

The English speak English. I don't know what citizens of the USA think we're speaking, but I'll tell you now, I'm pretty sure it's English.

Also, for anybody in the US that thinks that we in the UK use the metric system for everything, you're wrong. Our schools teach it, and we use it for calculations and stuff (Science, maths, because that only makes sense) but if you asked me how tall I was in metres, I'd tell you that I'm exactly six foot and that if you can't deal with the measurement system my people invented, you can go back to France!!

(Just kidding France, I love you really)

Sometimes I'm glad I'm just stupid tall. My conversion is really easy, I'm actually 2 meters tall. I find it odd that people don't pick up the metric system, seeing how easy it is. Of course, I didn't actually understand how easy it was until after I started training in electronics and electrical theory. It's amazing what a universal system that's not time will do for making other things easier to understand.

I also propose that we switch our thermal measurement system over to Kelvin, because it really messes with people. Put on your gloves kids, it's only 270 degrees outside.

 

[Baby Eater]

I say we Brits speak "English" whilst Americans speak "American". It's kinda like speaking to a cockney or a drunk Scotsman; you know they're speaking the same language, but it sounds too off to be called the same language.

 

[Phoxinator]

It's Americans calling it British English because they think 'English' is their own language. You won't see anyone in England calling it British English or American English because we're too polite.

 

[AceAngel]

There is Spanish, but we also have Italian Spanish which is essentially Spanish spoken, but with context and grammar of the Italian language changed.

We also have Venezuela, which have their own way of doing the talk...I mean literally, they change around stuff so much, I'm not sure if...ahhh!

Canadian French is an abortion, and should die. Everyday, I worry my French might became, nay, might have indeed become bad already thanks to the Quebecois.

So yeah, American English or British English both exist, depends if you want to say Color or Colour.

PS: Also, please don't debate about stuff like "Metric Systems". While I'm a user of the Metric origins and love it (Canada, woohoo, yay, crikey, etc...) leave US alone. They're entitled to their own system, as much bloody idiotic and pointlessly complicated as it is, they're still entitled to it.

 

[Wolfenbarg]

I am curious because the majority of Australians, Indians and New Zealanders, who speak English too, don't seem to categorise English into 'British English' and 'Indian English' as much, despite the differences being clear and defined (Such as in India where English isn't really a well established language as most people speak primarily Hindi I believe).

Many Indians speak English actually. I'm stressing to think of a single Indian film that doesn't have every actor, even with characters from lower on the social rung, speaking a mix of Hindi and English.

As for the point, I don't think most people even make a distinction. Dialects change a few things, but that's true with all big languages. Look at the differences in Spanish between North and South America compared to Spain.

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

mostly i've heard Brits and educated Americans differentiate the dialects as either "Queen's English" or just "English" as opposed to our "American English" or just "American". it's mostly uneducated (or, more commonly, apathetic) Americans who call our dialect "English" while claiming Brits speak "British English".

*edit* just realized that looks kinda bad... i'm not saying all Americans are uneducated, just some [small]a lot[/small] of us.

at what point is it acceptable to simply call it American?

it's acceptable now. in fact, there are even several dialects of American.

 

[Pilkingtube]

There is Spanish, but we also have Italian Spanish which is essentially Spanish spoken, but with context and grammar of the Italian language changed.

We also have Venezuela, which have their own way of doing the talk...I mean literally, they change around stuff so much, I'm not sure if...ahhh!

Canadian French is an abortion, and should die. Everyday, I worry my French might became, nay, might have indeed become bad already thanks to the Quebecois.

So yeah, American English or British English both exist, depends if you want to say Color or Colour.

PS: Also, please don't debate about stuff like "Metric Systems". While I'm a user of the Metric origins and love it (Canada, woohoo, yay, crikey, etc...) leave US alone. They're entitled to their own system, as much bloody idiotic and pointlessly complicated as it is, they're still entitled to it.

What i'm curious about too is at what point it's acceptable to stop calling it "bad French" and simply consider it "Quebecois" instead, such as Mexican etc. I wasn't specifically picking on the American dialect but more on former-colonial dialects in general (including French-Canadian, Mexican, Brazilian). Focusing on the American dialect, at what point is it acceptable to simply call it American?

 

[Pilkingtube]

I am curious because the majority of Australians, Indians and New Zealanders, who speak English too, don't seem to categorise English into 'British English' and 'Indian English' as much, despite the differences being clear and defined (Such as in India where English isn't really a well established language as most people speak primarily Hindi I believe).

Many Indians speak English actually. I'm stressing to think of a single Indian film that doesn't have every actor, even with characters from lower on the social rung, speaking a mix of Hindi and English.

As for the point, I don't think most people even make a distinction. Dialects change a few things, but that's true with all big languages. Look at the differences in Spanish between North and South America compared to Spain.

Oh yes, I didn't mean to imply that the Indian population doesn't speak English, just that Hindi is the official language and that English is a subsidiary language in the Indian Constitution.

EDIT (Because i'd rather not post 3 things in a row!):

mostly i've heard Brits and educated Americans differentiate the dialects as either "Queen's English" or just "English" as opposed to our "American English" or just "American". it's mostly uneducated (or, more commonly, apathetic) Americans who call our dialect "English" while claiming Brits speak "British English".

*edit* just realized that looks kinda bad... i'm not saying all Americans are uneducated, just some [small]a lot[/small] of us.

at what point is it acceptable to simply call it American?

it's acceptable now. in fact, there are even several dialects of American.

Very rarely will people in England call it "Queen's English", that is the definition used in primary school (children under teenage years). It is called "Recieved Pronunciation" instead ;D
I'm not saying it is a bad thing, mind you, to call it "British English".. just curious as to what point it is acceptable to differentiate the languages to the point that "American English" simply becomes "American" much like Mexican is now.

 

[tigermilk]

"British English"...? I've never even HEARD that before.
It's just English, that's all it's ever been. There's the 'Americanization' of English, which basically just means switching a few words and making all the 'U's sound like 'A's.

And replacing "s" with "z" as in Americanization as opposed to Americanisation!

I too had never heard of "British English" I guess as I am English. Can't help but think there are a lot of Irish people who would be very pissed off at the phrase "British English".

My terrible grammar habits are irrelevant, kind sir.

And you know...the Welsh? Since they don't speak English anyway.
They speak Welsh.

So yeah... 'British'.

I wasn't criticising your grammar, just illustrating the uniquotous nature of "American-English". I put my lack of clarity is one of the perils of the internet as opposed to a cultural barrier.

As for Wales, great efforts are made to sustain the language, English is very widely spoken in Wales. While a number of Welsh people are bilingual (21.7%*), Welsh people who speak Welsh are in the minority.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_language

 

[Warforger]

Hey so i'm wondering after seeing a few comments from US citizens on this site about English grammar. When a person is Spanish and they speak Spanish, their language is called Spanish. When the Japanese speak Japanese, it is called Japanese. When the English speak English, it is called British English rather than English.

Does this also happen for French Canadians, who call the French version of French 'European French' and Brazilians who call the Portuguese version of Portuguese 'Iberian Portuguese' or is it just the US citizenship who modify the name of the original language If so, why?

I am curious because the majority of Australians, Indians and New Zealanders, who speak English too, don't seem to categorise English into 'British English' and 'Indian English' as much, despite the differences being clear and defined (Such as in India where English isn't really a well established language as most people speak primarily Hindi I believe).

Yes, in Spain there is "vosotros" which in Latin American countries doesn't exist.

The main difference is the time, America retains much of the old system from when they were British colonies, so while Britain changed its language and its colonies adapted the changes the Americans English stayed the same. So pretty much the few differences are merely a leftover of old English, this is why if you go into rural places like America like Appalachia where people have been living outside of technology their English despite stereotypes is actually Shakespearian type English.

Also, on a less serious/curious note.. what is the reasoning behind the unsual order of the American Date System? The progression is usually in ascending/descending order, such as seconds>minutes>hours>days>months>years or years>months>days>hours>minutes>seconds but whenever it is written on an American document it flows seconds>minutes>hours>months>days>years, why is it in such an unintuitive layout?

Because they would say "It is September the 8th" rather then "It is the 8th of September".