The French speak French, the Spanish speak Spanish, The English speak?

[Wolfenbarg]

I am curious because the majority of Australians, Indians and New Zealanders, who speak English too, don't seem to categorise English into 'British English' and 'Indian English' as much, despite the differences being clear and defined (Such as in India where English isn't really a well established language as most people speak primarily Hindi I believe).

Many Indians speak English actually. I'm stressing to think of a single Indian film that doesn't have every actor, even with characters from lower on the social rung, speaking a mix of Hindi and English.

As for the point, I don't think most people even make a distinction. Dialects change a few things, but that's true with all big languages. Look at the differences in Spanish between North and South America compared to Spain.

You've watched that many Indian films? My sympathies.

My mother's side of the family is Indian, so every time I visit Indian movies are the norm. Your sympathies mean a lot actually, and that is not sarcasm.

 

[iamthe1]

If it's a matter of colloquialisms or some other type of idiom, then I can see why people make the distinction. I don't know what the fuck a "billabong" is, but I'm made to understand that it's a word of Aussie origin. I've seen it emblazoned on the hoodies of useless twats riding skateboards, so it probably means something totally distinct in many American idioms (that I have no desire to learn).

However, if it's a matter of "proper English grammar," then fucking ignore it. Only fuckheads who have had one-too-many English teachers slap them across the face for saying "who" when they *should* have said "whom" care about that shit. Yahtzee, I'm looking at you, you pretentious throbbing cock--or was your schoolmarm so hot that it was worth it? 'Cause there's no judgement here!

There are no required affixes for case agreement, there are no true disagreements in number from subject to predicate, and who the fuck cares if I say "data" in lieu of "datum'????? It makes no difference unless you're writing for an audience who gives a shit. If you're in an academic setting, and people are going to judge you not only on how well you present your bullshit but also on how well you grammaticize your bullshit, then fucking work on your ethos!

But most people just won't care. And for good reason. Seriously: if I knock on your door, and you ask who it is, I will answer "It's me." Even though it's the predicate nominative, and I *should* say "It's I." Cock-a-doodle-doo. Just worry about communicating your point. If *proper* grammar is relevant to that end, use it. Otherwise, fuck it.

Holy shit, I really am drunk! Sorry for that! I usually don't pretend like I care that much... maybe I really do care...

RUBBISH!

You are quite eloquent for being drunk. Also, I'm American and have no idea what billabong means. Apparently neither does Firefox, as that shit be underlined in red, yo.

I used to be a useless twat who studied this nonsense, so I use it, if for no other reason than I made myself fucking study it. And I still edit myself while I'm writing--just b/c such *errors* STILL bug me even though they shouldn't! Fuck the educational system.

And when I see Firefox, I always think Foxfire, which is a movie wherein you get to see Angelina Jolie's tits. And I wouldn't expect her tits to know what a billabong is!

 

[AThousandYoung]

The Mexican language is Nahuatl.

 

[masher]

The U.S. still hasn't changed over to the metric system.

I'll just leave that here.

We can be a stubborn people, unfortunately, and we appear to strongly value our, "Individuality," as a nation, which can be ironic in some cases.

That has nothing to do with it. Changing systems in a nation of 300,000,000 is a lot harder than changing systems in a nation of 13 million (the approximate size of Canada when they changed).

Not mention it's both an intrastate as well as interstate thing... meaning you'd have to get 51 governments on board with it (50 states plus the federal goverment).

In such a large nation, it's just more hassle than its worth.

Not to say that we won't EVER do it... especially if literacy rates increase... but it's just not worth it right now.

"Individuality' and whatever, "I hate my own country because we do this..." reasons people want to come up with is BS and has nothing to do with it.

Hey, hey, now, I'm happy to live in the states, but that doesn't mean I can't take pokes at the little things. You have to admit, we aren't perfect. Though, I don't know a country that -is- perfect. Switzerland, maybe, but I don't live there, so I don't know.

 

[Pilkingtube]

Also, on a less serious/curious note.. what is the reasoning behind the unsual order of the American Date System?

*rubs eyes* Ughh, look we don't know. Nobody over here knows. From the time we're very little that is how we're told to date out papers, it's never explained to us why but for us it's normal. It's an accepted normalcy over here that things like date and time have two formats; the one we use and the one everyone else uses. When we write academic papers in school we follow the day/month/year format.

So please, pass the word on to stop freaking asking. So what if we do it differently is it really so hard to just flip the first two? I'll never understand why people take it as such a personal offense that we do stuff differently. It just kinda happened that way okay. We get that you think there's something mentally defective about us because to you we seem to go about everything ass backwards but news flash to us you guys do some stuff that seems ass backward.

Sorry to take it out on you but it's at least two to three times a month someone pops up on the forums bitching about the US' dating system or not using the metric system. We like using it, it's what we were raised on, and ffs stop asking us why we do it as if we're some kind of idiots. (to give an example: if you were to ask someone "why are you playing that game using your ass?")

EDIT
And another thing, all you stuck up brits who keep calling our language mangled. Freaking bugger off; it's called the language evolving into a different vernacular. You don't like it, tough titty you don't see us saying you speak a "mangled" version of English do you? No, of course not; we have so many different vernaculars and accents over here it would drive you guys insane. We understand that stuff like that happens and that it's not a bastardization of the language just a regional difference.

Hi! My apologies, I had no intention of offending you as much as I did! This thread was here to sate my curiosity, nothing more!

Earlier in the thread it was explained to me, it was modified because the month-day-year method was more efficient for things like filing and archiving systems and for referencing. I'm not here to complain or moan about languages, just ask some questions!

Hey so i'm wondering after seeing a few comments from US citizens on this site about English grammar. When a person is Spanish and they speak Spanish, their language is called Spanish. When the Japanese speak Japanese, it is called Japanese. When the English speak English, it is called British English rather than English.

Please don't confuse a dialect with an entirely different language. There are many variations of English (Canadian, American, British, etc), just as there are many variations of Spanish (Mayan, Latin, etc). If you want to get technical, there are also pidgin and creole languages.

I'm more curious as to what point different dialects are differentiated to the point where people begin to call them different languages, several canadians on this thread seem to call their version of French something different!

 

[Pilkingtube]

Does this also happen for [..] Brazilians who call the Portuguese version of Portuguese 'Iberian Portuguese'

The usual term is 'português de Portugal' which would translate as 'Portugal Portuguese', but yeah, pretty much.

Is there much of a difference there too? Like, could a Brazilian and Portuguese person actually have a conversation?

 

[iDoom46]

American English has different sets of rules regarding grammar and spellings of certain words that British English. I'm sure this is true for other languages that are spoken in more than one country.

I'll give some examples.

American - British
Color - Colour
Favorite - Favourite
Dreamed - Dreamt
"He was taken to the hospital." - "He was taken to hospital."

If you'd like to know more, I suggest you look up the Wikipedia article.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Since all Australians speak British English, we don't bother distinguishing between the two.

 

[Haydyn]

To an American, it is Birtish English. In general, it is English. Sometimes I'll refer to America's language as American English, or "You're in America! Speak American!"

We just need to modify English and make it into the international trade language. It's so heavily influenced by different countries and coltures. Maybe I'm just saying that because I speak English.

I had friends who would mock people for speaking another language in America, not to their faces at least. I don't have a problem with it, being pro freedom and all. But the other day I was at Costco and these people were speaking an Asian language. I have no problem with any language, and even know some Japanese, but the way they were speaking it was very, very annoying. This is coming from a skinny white boy who used to be obsessed with Japanese culture. Now, if anyone can find anything annoying, could I walk around playing annoying music, or speak in random noises? Legally I have the same rights as anyone else when it comes to free speech.

If it sounds like I'm coming from an offensive standpoint, I assure you I am not. Being very tolerant of culture, it bothers me that something like this offends me. To avoid further derailing, I'll end by saying the best bet would just be to call American English what it is. People think I'm Canadian because I adopted a Canadian accent. Does that mean I speak Canadian English? Damn, I just disproved my own theory. There is no perfect solution for the different forms of English.

 

[xuberfail]

In New Zealand we occasionally refer to our 'dialect' as NZ english. But it's essentially the same as 'British English' but with some maori influence. We use 'British English' and 'American English' purely to differentiate spelling conventions.

I will say that I was dismayed after being a told that my flight to LA would land 'momentarily.' In a moment vs for a moment.

 

[lockeslylcrit]

I'm more curious as to what point different dialects are differentiated to the point where people begin to call them different languages, several canadians on this thread seem to call their version of French something different!

Dialects are merely minor changes in syntax, spelling, or pronunciation in a language, differing from culture to culture. This can range from minor spelling (armor/armour) to a completely different word for the same meaning. Someone using Standard Spoken English will say "you all" whereas someone with a Southern drawl will say "y'all". However, some will incorrectly think of this purely as an accent, which is only half-true. Accents are vocal, whereas dialects affects both verbal non-verbal communication.
Pidgins are a form of communication where a non-native speaker will attempt to learn just the basics of another language to socialize or conduct business. An example would be a Mexican immigrant living in the border region of Texas along with other immigrants. He'll primarily use Spanish to communicate with those of his own culture, but he'll incorporate English into his language when he buys groceries or pays his bills.
Creoles are pidgins that have been used so extensively that they have become their own dialect or even a separate language. An example would be Louisiana Creole in the French Quarter of New Orleans (or, as some would say in their cultural dialect, "Na'lans").

The short version: Dialects are variations of languages, not languages themselves. A language is a form of communication that can not be understood by someone who does not speak that language. An American English speaker would not be able to understand Mandarin Chinese without training, but will be able to understand, to an extent, Jamaican English.

As an Anthropology major, I'd advise taking a course in Linguistic Anthropology sometime if you wish to learn more. It's a huge help in understanding communication across cultures.

 

[SwiftBlade18]

The only time I ever see it referred to as British English is on anything to do with computers...Its purely put their for spelling and/or keyboard setup.

If you are not aware of the subtle differences in the language...grey and gray, colour and color, armour and armor.

Then there are words which mean different things...I will leave it at the word fanny - very different meanings! ^.^ makes the term fanny pack even more funny for a Brit like me

 

[Aurgelmir]

Hey so i'm wondering after seeing a few comments from US citizens on this site about English grammar. When a person is Spanish and they speak Spanish, their language is called Spanish. When the Japanese speak Japanese, it is called Japanese. When the English speak English, it is called British English rather than English.

Does this also happen for French Canadians, who call the French version of French 'European French' and Brazilians who call the Portuguese version of Portuguese 'Iberian Portuguese' or is it just the US citizenship who modify the name of the original language If so, why?

I am curious because the majority of Australians, Indians and New Zealanders, who speak English too, don't seem to categorise English into 'British English' and 'Indian English' as much, despite the differences being clear and defined (Such as in India where English isn't really a well established language as most people speak primarily Hindi I believe).

Also, on a less serious/curious note.. what is the reasoning behind the unsual order of the American Date System? The progression is usually in ascending/descending order, such as seconds>minutes>hours>days>months>years or years>months>days>hours>minutes>seconds but whenever it is written on an American document it flows seconds>minutes>hours>months>days>years, why is it in such an unintuitive layout?

EDIT: I am genuinley surprised how many people I have offended by this post! Please note that i'm really just trying to sate my curiosity than slander the American use of English. I am using American English as an example of a wider subject. That being, at what point do countries begin to differentiate their dialect as a new language, like European countries differentiated their languages from eachother despite being identical originally. This question is relevant to former Spanish, Dutch, French, Portuguese colonies etc.

Honestly the language is English, but the dialects of English they speak are American, British, Kiwi, Austrailan you name it.

 

[Therumancer]

[]

Probably not. Power will likely wane a bit from the US before the world decides it really needs to teach one language. Since a full 60% of the native English speaking world resides within the US you probably won't see English as the unifying language. All it will take is one generation without the vast presence of the US for the language to fall out of favor as the most popular second language.

As for the rest, well the systems might make sense for some things, but it isn't that way because its efficient. It's that way because change hasn't happened as quickly in the US. English as spoken and written in the US is far closer to how the language was 200 years ago. It's the English more then the US that have changed, reason for it aside its verifiable.

Maybe, maybe not. One thing you have to understand about the US, and I guess to some extent it's arrogance, is that it's the global "endgame" so to speak. Just like things like ZPG (Zero Population Growth) most people know this, many don't care for it, but realize they are probably going to have to embrace it.

By "global endgame" I mean that it brings about global unity into one world goverment more or less under it's principles. The dissolution of all nations, including itself, into a single world goverment run under something very similar to it's principles. The penelty of not doing so is the death of humanity.

The reason is quite simply that there are limited resources on earth, and like it or not the only way we're going to be able to obtain more, not to mention more living space, is space exploration. Whether or not there are space aliens or anything, we know there are minerals in the astroid belt and places like Mars at the very least, and we need those. SERIOUS space exploration and expansion cannot happen with seperate nations due to paranoia, if you look at games like Homefront you can see the reason for why this is, no nation is going to trust other ones to put things up into space, especially on that level, for fear of the placement of weapons and other problems. Not to mention how it would probably lead to global warfare and chaos is certain nations have decent space travel, others do not, and you wind up with various countries doing things like staking claim to entire planets. You need to get everyone together or else it's armageddon, because simply put cutting loose with orbital weapons is going to be worse than any World War III scenario concocted during "The Cold War".

If we do not do this, we will deplete what's here on earth, and by doing so "landlock" ourselves and remove any possibility of obtaining more resources. The sun will eventually die (even if it takes billions of years) and we become extinct.

It's not the kind of situation where if America falls or fails, everyone immediatly dies. Im sure if it does happen people will be snarky in saying "oh well, the US is gone, and life goes on" but only because we represent the last chance of humanity in a very long term sense.

At any rate, this applies to language simply because if humanity is going to survive your not going to see another dominant world power like the US to spread it's language in the same way.

That said, long-term sociology aside (which that is), it's not just US business that has spread the language, but the simple fact that global culture is US cultue. Movies, TV shows, Music, while various nations have things like this of their own, the US has spread these to the four corners of the earth and has been doing it throughout the entire information age, and established such an infrastucture that it's crazy. Our culture has actually replaced the foundation of a lot of other societies as far as these things go, which is one of the reasons why you have some goverments crying for global firewalls and such in the name of preserving their own way of life. This is how we have been "conquering" the world with things like the "Big Mac" and "Melrose Place".

Even if another society DID come to prominance, the influance of the USA due to the production of media is never liable to wane. Sort of like how even today "The Roman Empire" has a had a massive influance on the foundation of global society, including the US, except in this case it's FAR more extreme. So much media being in English means that any replacement power is liable to be replacing their own language to a large extent with english specifically because of the media, and all the paperwork and administration already in that language. It would be one of the stepping stones allowing them to get into a position to do this.

For example India, which is one of those potential powers, uses English heavily for running their goverment and business. The more they do, the more of an infrastructure they are creating. Those records are still going to be needed. If the US fell tomorrow, they would still need to teach everyone of import English just to read the records they have been creating. What's more they are still liable to use English if they do business with other countries in Europe or Asia because that's the language everyone uses for business and people are doubtlessly going to stick with it because massive education in Hindi when so many know English is kind of counter productive.

English got to this point because there was nothing equally established before the US rose to power after World War II. The closest analogy to where it is now is what Latin used to be, and look how long that took to go away. This is far more extreme than Latin ever was, because of the "information age" and how it's spread.

We might have to agree to disagree, but that's my thoughts on the subject.

 

[Flames66]

When the English speak English, it is called British English rather than English.

Actually it is referred to as Queens English.

 

[Pilkingtube]

I'm more curious as to what point different dialects are differentiated to the point where people begin to call them different languages, several canadians on this thread seem to call their version of French something different!

Dialects are merely minor changes in syntax, spelling, or pronunciation in a language, differing from culture to culture. This can range from minor spelling (armor/armour) to a completely different word for the same meaning. Someone using Standard Spoken English will say "you all" whereas someone with a Southern drawl will say "y'all". However, some will incorrectly think of this purely as an accent, which is only half-true. Accents are vocal, whereas dialects affects both verbal non-verbal communication.
Pidgins are a form of communication where a non-native speaker will attempt to learn just the basics of another language to socialize or conduct business. An example would be a Mexican immigrant living in the border region of Texas along with other immigrants. He'll primarily use Spanish to communicate with those of his own culture, but he'll incorporate English into his language when he buys groceries or pays his bills.
Creoles are pidgins that have been used so extensively that they have become their own dialect or even a separate language. An example would be Louisiana Creole in the French Quarter of New Orleans (or, as some would say in their cultural dialect, "Na'lans").

The short version: Dialects are variations of languages, not languages themselves. A language is a form of communication that can not be understood by someone who does not speak that language. An American English speaker would not be able to understand Mandarin Chinese without training, but will be able to understand, to an extent, Jamaican English.

As an Anthropology major, I'd advise taking a course in Linguistic Anthropology sometime if you wish to learn more. It's a huge help in understanding communication across cultures.

Although it does interest me, unfortunatley i'm currently doing a BSc in Human Biology with a Post-grad medical degree, so I don't really have the time to study things outside of medical science that interest me!

Hey so i'm wondering after seeing a few comments from US citizens on this site about English grammar. When a person is Spanish and they speak Spanish, their language is called Spanish. When the Japanese speak Japanese, it is called Japanese. When the English speak English, it is called British English rather than English.

Does this also happen for French Canadians, who call the French version of French 'European French' and Brazilians who call the Portuguese version of Portuguese 'Iberian Portuguese' or is it just the US citizenship who modify the name of the original language If so, why?

I am curious because the majority of Australians, Indians and New Zealanders, who speak English too, don't seem to categorise English into 'British English' and 'Indian English' as much, despite the differences being clear and defined (Such as in India where English isn't really a well established language as most people speak primarily Hindi I believe).

Also, on a less serious/curious note.. what is the reasoning behind the unsual order of the American Date System? The progression is usually in ascending/descending order, such as seconds>minutes>hours>days>months>years or years>months>days>hours>minutes>seconds but whenever it is written on an American document it flows seconds>minutes>hours>months>days>years, why is it in such an unintuitive layout?

EDIT: I am genuinley surprised how many people I have offended by this post! Please note that i'm really just trying to sate my curiosity than slander the American use of English. I am using American English as an example of a wider subject. That being, at what point do countries begin to differentiate their dialect as a new language, like European countries differentiated their languages from eachother despite being identical originally. This question is relevant to former Spanish, Dutch, French, Portuguese colonies etc.

Honestly the language is English, but the dialects of English they speak are American, British, Kiwi, Austrailan you name it.

And what of other countries, such as Brazil with its relationship with Portuguese, Mexico with its relationship with Spanish?

 

[Pilkingtube]

When the English speak English, it is called British English rather than English.

Actually it is referred to as Queens English.

Sorry but it's normally called Recieved Pronunciation, "Queen's English" is more of a primary school term. I'm merely trying to distinguish between the two dialects rather than categorically define both. My question is at what point do two dialects diverge to the point that they simply become seperate languages?

 

[Flames66]

When the English speak English, it is called British English rather than English.

Actually it is referred to as Queens English.

Sorry but it's normally called Recieved Pronunciation, "Queen's English" is more of a primary school term. I'm merely trying to distinguish between the two dialects rather than categorically define both. My question is at what point do two dialects diverge to the point that they simply become seperate languages?

I wasn't referring to upper-class, posh sounding English (Recieved Pronunciation), I'm talking only about English as spoken by the English (Queens English).

Now personally I think they are separate languages when they are no longer easily interchangeable, a person speaking one can no longer understand someone speaking the other.

 

[EMFCRACKSHOT]

There is proper English (what we write and speak) and whatever you darned colonials call that utterly dreadful sound that comes out of your mouths

 

[Aurgelmir]

And what of other countries, such as Brazil with its relationship with Portuguese, Mexico with its relationship with Spanish?

I think they refer to it as Speeking Mexican Spanish, or Spanish with a Mexican accent/dialect.
And Mexican and Spanish Spanish is very different in how it is spoken apparently.