The fun facts thread---share your useless trivia!

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brodie21

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TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
dngamecat said:
Hitler was a vegetarian

Some people believe Nazis had help from aliens

A member (or former member) of the Nazi part was one of the most important people who worked on NASA's project to get a human on the moon
hitlers vegetarian cook was jewish, and Wernher Von Braun was the guy. he worked on the v2 rockets for the nazis and got captured by the americans and worked for nasa in exchange for not going on trial for war crimes
Hitler wasn't vegetarian.
yes, he was. one of his advisors, Albert Speer mentions it in his memoir "Inside the Third Reich'

"After the early 1930s, Hitler generally followed a vegetarian diet, although he ate meat on occasion. There are reports of him disgusting his guests by giving them graphic accounts of the slaughter of animals in an effort to make them shun meat.[350] A fear of cancer (from which his mother died) is the most widely cited reason, though it is also asserted that Hitler, an antivivisectionist, had a profound concern for animals.[351] Martin Bormann had a greenhouse constructed for him near the Berghof (near Berchtesgaden) to ensure a steady supply of fresh fruit and vegetables for Hitler throughout the war." From the Wikipedia article about Hitler.
if you will note i said that hitler had a jewish vegitarian cook. never in my response to the original poster (the one who actually made the claim that hitler was vegitarian) did i say that hitler was completely vegitarian. the section from wikipedia backs me up, as he was mostly vegitarian. i highly doubt that all vegitarians are all vegitarian all the time. BTW, wikipedia isnt always right, so my source trumps yours
I don't think you've put a lot of thought into saying that.
what the hell do you want from me? you are disputing facts that i know to be true and can provide legitimate sources for, while the only source you have provided is wikipedia. besides i am not the one who made the original claim that hitler was vegitarian it was dngamecat. why the hell do you keep bothering me with this? are you bored or do you just want to piss me off?
 

TheGuiggleMonster

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Feb 11, 2011
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brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
dngamecat said:
Hitler was a vegetarian

Some people believe Nazis had help from aliens

A member (or former member) of the Nazi part was one of the most important people who worked on NASA's project to get a human on the moon
hitlers vegetarian cook was jewish, and Wernher Von Braun was the guy. he worked on the v2 rockets for the nazis and got captured by the americans and worked for nasa in exchange for not going on trial for war crimes
Hitler wasn't vegetarian.
yes, he was. one of his advisors, Albert Speer mentions it in his memoir "Inside the Third Reich'

"After the early 1930s, Hitler generally followed a vegetarian diet, although he ate meat on occasion. There are reports of him disgusting his guests by giving them graphic accounts of the slaughter of animals in an effort to make them shun meat.[350] A fear of cancer (from which his mother died) is the most widely cited reason, though it is also asserted that Hitler, an antivivisectionist, had a profound concern for animals.[351] Martin Bormann had a greenhouse constructed for him near the Berghof (near Berchtesgaden) to ensure a steady supply of fresh fruit and vegetables for Hitler throughout the war." From the Wikipedia article about Hitler.
if you will note i said that hitler had a jewish vegitarian cook. never in my response to the original poster (the one who actually made the claim that hitler was vegitarian) did i say that hitler was completely vegitarian. the section from wikipedia backs me up, as he was mostly vegitarian. i highly doubt that all vegitarians are all vegitarian all the time. BTW, wikipedia isnt always right, so my source trumps yours
I don't think you've put a lot of thought into saying that.
what the hell do you want from me? you are disputing facts that i know to be true and can provide legitimate sources for, while the only source you have provided is wikipedia. besides i am not the one who made the original claim that hitler was vegitarian it was dngamecat. why the hell do you keep bothering me with this? are you bored or do you just want to piss me off?
1) You clearly did say that he was vegetarian
2) Articles on Wikipedia which can only be edited by moderators who go through what people bring up in the discussion page and carefully choose what is true and what isn't.
3) As far as I know, what you've said could be made up, because I have not seen the source for it.
4) dngamecat hasn't brought this up again so as far as I can tell he might believe me or he might not care enough to do anything. Either way I have no problem with him.
5)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_vegetarianism If you want sources, read every source on this page.
6) There is a difference between eating some meat and eating no meat at all.
7) I don't hate you I just want you to get your facts right.

If this is about the difference between being vegetarian and being mostly vegetarian than maybe we should establish the fact that vegetarianism means eating no animals. Saying that all vegetarians must eat meat occasionally is very arrogant.
 

brodie21

New member
Apr 6, 2009
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TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
dngamecat said:
Hitler was a vegetarian

Some people believe Nazis had help from aliens

A member (or former member) of the Nazi part was one of the most important people who worked on NASA's project to get a human on the moon
hitlers vegetarian cook was jewish, and Wernher Von Braun was the guy. he worked on the v2 rockets for the nazis and got captured by the americans and worked for nasa in exchange for not going on trial for war crimes
Hitler wasn't vegetarian.
yes, he was. one of his advisors, Albert Speer mentions it in his memoir "Inside the Third Reich'

"After the early 1930s, Hitler generally followed a vegetarian diet, although he ate meat on occasion. There are reports of him disgusting his guests by giving them graphic accounts of the slaughter of animals in an effort to make them shun meat.[350] A fear of cancer (from which his mother died) is the most widely cited reason, though it is also asserted that Hitler, an antivivisectionist, had a profound concern for animals.[351] Martin Bormann had a greenhouse constructed for him near the Berghof (near Berchtesgaden) to ensure a steady supply of fresh fruit and vegetables for Hitler throughout the war." From the Wikipedia article about Hitler.
if you will note i said that hitler had a jewish vegitarian cook. never in my response to the original poster (the one who actually made the claim that hitler was vegitarian) did i say that hitler was completely vegitarian. the section from wikipedia backs me up, as he was mostly vegitarian. i highly doubt that all vegitarians are all vegitarian all the time. BTW, wikipedia isnt always right, so my source trumps yours
I don't think you've put a lot of thought into saying that.
what the hell do you want from me? you are disputing facts that i know to be true and can provide legitimate sources for, while the only source you have provided is wikipedia. besides i am not the one who made the original claim that hitler was vegitarian it was dngamecat. why the hell do you keep bothering me with this? are you bored or do you just want to piss me off?
1) You clearly did say that he was vegetarian
2) Articles on Wikipedia which can only be edited by moderators who go through what people bring up in the discussion page and carefully choose what is true and what isn't.
3) As far as I know, what you've said could be made up, because I have not seen the source for it.
4) dngamecat hasn't brought this up again so as far as I can tell he might believe me or he might not care enough to do anything. Either way I have no problem with him.
5)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_vegetarianism If you want sources, read every source on this page.
6) There is a difference between eating some meat and eating no meat at all.
7) I don't hate you I just want you to get your facts right.

If this is about the difference between being vegetarian and being mostly vegetarian than maybe we should establish the fact that vegetarianism means eating no animals. Saying that all vegetarians must eat meat occasionally is very arrogant.
grow up, i did not state that he was vegitarian. my facts are correct, if you think i am wrong take it up with albert speer. and this could be construed as harassment. because i feel harassed, so leave me the hell alone. the reason dngamecat hasnt brought this up is he doesnt know about it you quoted my post which means that i was the one messaged. why dont you go bother him about it.
 

k-ossuburb

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Adam from Myth Busters didn't originally come up with the phrase "I reject your reality and substitute my own".

It was actaully originally said in a little-known 80's movie called "Dungeon Master" although you'll be more likely to get the quote from it's original title "Rage War".
 

brodie21

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Apr 6, 2009
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TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
dngamecat said:
Hitler was a vegetarian

Some people believe Nazis had help from aliens

A member (or former member) of the Nazi part was one of the most important people who worked on NASA's project to get a human on the moon
hitlers vegetarian cook was jewish, and Wernher Von Braun was the guy. he worked on the v2 rockets for the nazis and got captured by the americans and worked for nasa in exchange for not going on trial for war crimes
Hitler wasn't vegetarian.
yes, he was. one of his advisors, Albert Speer mentions it in his memoir "Inside the Third Reich'

"After the early 1930s, Hitler generally followed a vegetarian diet, although he ate meat on occasion. There are reports of him disgusting his guests by giving them graphic accounts of the slaughter of animals in an effort to make them shun meat.[350] A fear of cancer (from which his mother died) is the most widely cited reason, though it is also asserted that Hitler, an antivivisectionist, had a profound concern for animals.[351] Martin Bormann had a greenhouse constructed for him near the Berghof (near Berchtesgaden) to ensure a steady supply of fresh fruit and vegetables for Hitler throughout the war." From the Wikipedia article about Hitler.
if you will note i said that hitler had a jewish vegitarian cook. never in my response to the original poster (the one who actually made the claim that hitler was vegitarian) did i say that hitler was completely vegitarian. the section from wikipedia backs me up, as he was mostly vegitarian. i highly doubt that all vegitarians are all vegitarian all the time. BTW, wikipedia isnt always right, so my source trumps yours
I don't think you've put a lot of thought into saying that.
what the hell do you want from me? you are disputing facts that i know to be true and can provide legitimate sources for, while the only source you have provided is wikipedia. besides i am not the one who made the original claim that hitler was vegitarian it was dngamecat. why the hell do you keep bothering me with this? are you bored or do you just want to piss me off?
1) You clearly did say that he was vegetarian
2) Articles on Wikipedia which can only be edited by moderators who go through what people bring up in the discussion page and carefully choose what is true and what isn't.
3) As far as I know, what you've said could be made up, because I have not seen the source for it.
4) dngamecat hasn't brought this up again so as far as I can tell he might believe me or he might not care enough to do anything. Either way I have no problem with him.
5)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_vegetarianism If you want sources, read every source on this page.
6) There is a difference between eating some meat and eating no meat at all.
7) I don't hate you I just want you to get your facts right.

If this is about the difference between being vegetarian and being mostly vegetarian than maybe we should establish the fact that vegetarianism means eating no animals. Saying that all vegetarians must eat meat occasionally is very arrogant.
"In addition to being a teetotaler and a non-smoker,[1] Adolf Hitler is often said to have practiced some form of vegetarianism. " there, from your very wikipedia article
 

TheGuiggleMonster

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Feb 11, 2011
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brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
dngamecat said:
Hitler was a vegetarian

Some people believe Nazis had help from aliens

A member (or former member) of the Nazi part was one of the most important people who worked on NASA's project to get a human on the moon
hitlers vegetarian cook was jewish, and Wernher Von Braun was the guy. he worked on the v2 rockets for the nazis and got captured by the americans and worked for nasa in exchange for not going on trial for war crimes
Hitler wasn't vegetarian.
yes, he was. one of his advisors, Albert Speer mentions it in his memoir "Inside the Third Reich'

"After the early 1930s, Hitler generally followed a vegetarian diet, although he ate meat on occasion. There are reports of him disgusting his guests by giving them graphic accounts of the slaughter of animals in an effort to make them shun meat.[350] A fear of cancer (from which his mother died) is the most widely cited reason, though it is also asserted that Hitler, an antivivisectionist, had a profound concern for animals.[351] Martin Bormann had a greenhouse constructed for him near the Berghof (near Berchtesgaden) to ensure a steady supply of fresh fruit and vegetables for Hitler throughout the war." From the Wikipedia article about Hitler.
if you will note i said that hitler had a jewish vegitarian cook. never in my response to the original poster (the one who actually made the claim that hitler was vegitarian) did i say that hitler was completely vegitarian. the section from wikipedia backs me up, as he was mostly vegitarian. i highly doubt that all vegitarians are all vegitarian all the time. BTW, wikipedia isnt always right, so my source trumps yours
I don't think you've put a lot of thought into saying that.
what the hell do you want from me? you are disputing facts that i know to be true and can provide legitimate sources for, while the only source you have provided is wikipedia. besides i am not the one who made the original claim that hitler was vegitarian it was dngamecat. why the hell do you keep bothering me with this? are you bored or do you just want to piss me off?
1) You clearly did say that he was vegetarian
2) Articles on Wikipedia which can only be edited by moderators who go through what people bring up in the discussion page and carefully choose what is true and what isn't.
3) As far as I know, what you've said could be made up, because I have not seen the source for it.
4) dngamecat hasn't brought this up again so as far as I can tell he might believe me or he might not care enough to do anything. Either way I have no problem with him.
5)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_vegetarianism If you want sources, read every source on this page.
6) There is a difference between eating some meat and eating no meat at all.
7) I don't hate you I just want you to get your facts right.

If this is about the difference between being vegetarian and being mostly vegetarian than maybe we should establish the fact that vegetarianism means eating no animals. Saying that all vegetarians must eat meat occasionally is very arrogant.
"In addition to being a teetotaler and a non-smoker,[1] Adolf Hitler is often said to have practiced some form of vegetarianism. " there, from your very wikipedia article
Please read what you wrote more carefully. You said this: yes, he was. one of his advisors, Albert Speer mentions it in his memoir "Inside the Third Reich'. That is directly copy pasted from what you said and my source is on this thread that you are on now. It is blatently obvious when you lie through your teeth and trying to persuade me that my eyes weren't working when I read what you wrote won't work because I am cleverer than that.

If someone else came and read our conversation and read what you said about me harassing you, they would probably be in favour of me because I come across as a lot less aggressive than you and more willing to have an intelligent conversation with someone without having to result to insults and threats to get my point across. I also think that you have a problem. I gave you the opportunity for sources that you wanted to see, and you used that opportunity to pick one specific thing out and make it sound factual, being the best thing you could see in the article when really it gets across a very unclear point and it's far smaller and far less detailed than what I originally showed you from Wikipedia yet for some strange reason you think that the burden of proof should only rest on my shoulders and you are excempt from this rule because I am in the wrong because I am harassing you.

Harassment is a serious problem and it's probably not a good idea to accuse someone of harassing you and then trying to communicate with them afterwards because that just makes it look like you're harassing them.

Don't act like you don't have a clue what I'm talking about.
 

brodie21

New member
Apr 6, 2009
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TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
dngamecat said:
Hitler was a vegetarian

Some people believe Nazis had help from aliens

A member (or former member) of the Nazi part was one of the most important people who worked on NASA's project to get a human on the moon
hitlers vegetarian cook was jewish, and Wernher Von Braun was the guy. he worked on the v2 rockets for the nazis and got captured by the americans and worked for nasa in exchange for not going on trial for war crimes
Hitler wasn't vegetarian.
yes, he was. one of his advisors, Albert Speer mentions it in his memoir "Inside the Third Reich'

"After the early 1930s, Hitler generally followed a vegetarian diet, although he ate meat on occasion. There are reports of him disgusting his guests by giving them graphic accounts of the slaughter of animals in an effort to make them shun meat.[350] A fear of cancer (from which his mother died) is the most widely cited reason, though it is also asserted that Hitler, an antivivisectionist, had a profound concern for animals.[351] Martin Bormann had a greenhouse constructed for him near the Berghof (near Berchtesgaden) to ensure a steady supply of fresh fruit and vegetables for Hitler throughout the war." From the Wikipedia article about Hitler.
if you will note i said that hitler had a jewish vegitarian cook. never in my response to the original poster (the one who actually made the claim that hitler was vegitarian) did i say that hitler was completely vegitarian. the section from wikipedia backs me up, as he was mostly vegitarian. i highly doubt that all vegitarians are all vegitarian all the time. BTW, wikipedia isnt always right, so my source trumps yours
I don't think you've put a lot of thought into saying that.
what the hell do you want from me? you are disputing facts that i know to be true and can provide legitimate sources for, while the only source you have provided is wikipedia. besides i am not the one who made the original claim that hitler was vegitarian it was dngamecat. why the hell do you keep bothering me with this? are you bored or do you just want to piss me off?
1) You clearly did say that he was vegetarian
2) Articles on Wikipedia which can only be edited by moderators who go through what people bring up in the discussion page and carefully choose what is true and what isn't.
3) As far as I know, what you've said could be made up, because I have not seen the source for it.
4) dngamecat hasn't brought this up again so as far as I can tell he might believe me or he might not care enough to do anything. Either way I have no problem with him.
5)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_vegetarianism If you want sources, read every source on this page.
6) There is a difference between eating some meat and eating no meat at all.
7) I don't hate you I just want you to get your facts right.

If this is about the difference between being vegetarian and being mostly vegetarian than maybe we should establish the fact that vegetarianism means eating no animals. Saying that all vegetarians must eat meat occasionally is very arrogant.
my statement was about a vegitarian cook that hitler kept around to cook vegitarian meals for him.

i would also like to add this from the forum rules

Have Respect for Others
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no one is entitled to attack others for sharing, or not sharing, that opinion. If you can't communicate without using combative, aggressive, or demeaning language, then please keep those comments to yourself, or be shown the door. Deliberately inflammatory threads; posts written with the sole intention of irritating people; attacks toward or inappropriate commentary regarding The Escapist staff, creators, or other posters; or attempts to derail a thread will be removed, as will your forum privileges.
i believe you have broken this rule.

oh, and here is my source http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Third-Reich-Albert-Speer/dp/0684829495
 

Calcabrina

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-Octopuses have three hearts
-Worms have five hearts
-Hippopotomontrosesquippedaliophobia is the fear of long words.
 

Saucycarpdog

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Final Fantasy was named so because it was going to be Squares last game as they were about to file bankruptcy. The game instead was a hit and earned enought money for Square to ovoid brankrupcty.

To this day, we have 14 final fantasies.
 

Anarchemitis

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Sub-Surface Scattering shaders (or SSS shaders) are algorithmic shading engines used in 3D (rarely in video games, frequently in movies) to simulate light interacting with materials underneath the surface of an object. This effect can occur in skin, glass, wood, paper, wax and other semi-translucent materials.
Color of the surface is modulated with different lighting information at different levels to indicate how much light penetrates shadow, what color it is and how intense.
 

darkless

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Saucycardog said:
Final Fantasy was named so because it was going to be Squares last game as they were about to file bankruptcy. The game instead was a hit and earned enought money for Square to ovoid brankrupcty.

To this day, we have 14 final fantasies.
Actually we have at least 18 if you include Gameboy and DS games.
 

Vanalosswen

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Feb 5, 2011
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rokkolpo said:
Vanalosswen said:
A Raging Emo said:
It took Leo Tolstoy 6 years to write War and Peace.
It took J.R.R. Tolkien 10 years to write Lord of the Rings, and he spent most of his life tinkering with the Silmarilion.
Did we just watch the same episode on the History channel?
Was that on History Channel? I'm sorry to have missed that....no, I've known that bit of trivia for years, since I became a Lord of the Rings fan.
 

Vanalosswen

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Feb 5, 2011
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On a similar note, Aragorn was originally supposed to be a hobbit named Padfoot. I'm not sure why Tolkien changed this, though I seem to recall something about using the "hidden king" theme in a lot of mythology.
 

thenoblitt

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May 7, 2009
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brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
TheGuiggleMonster said:
brodie21 said:
dngamecat said:
Hitler was a vegetarian

Some people believe Nazis had help from aliens

A member (or former member) of the Nazi part was one of the most important people who worked on NASA's project to get a human on the moon
hitlers vegetarian cook was jewish, and Wernher Von Braun was the guy. he worked on the v2 rockets for the nazis and got captured by the americans and worked for nasa in exchange for not going on trial for war crimes
Hitler wasn't vegetarian.
yes, he was. one of his advisors, Albert Speer mentions it in his memoir "Inside the Third Reich'

"After the early 1930s, Hitler generally followed a vegetarian diet, although he ate meat on occasion. There are reports of him disgusting his guests by giving them graphic accounts of the slaughter of animals in an effort to make them shun meat.[350] A fear of cancer (from which his mother died) is the most widely cited reason, though it is also asserted that Hitler, an antivivisectionist, had a profound concern for animals.[351] Martin Bormann had a greenhouse constructed for him near the Berghof (near Berchtesgaden) to ensure a steady supply of fresh fruit and vegetables for Hitler throughout the war." From the Wikipedia article about Hitler.
if you will note i said that hitler had a jewish vegitarian cook. never in my response to the original poster (the one who actually made the claim that hitler was vegitarian) did i say that hitler was completely vegitarian. the section from wikipedia backs me up, as he was mostly vegitarian. i highly doubt that all vegitarians are all vegitarian all the time. BTW, wikipedia isnt always right, so my source trumps yours
I don't think you've put a lot of thought into saying that.
what the hell do you want from me? you are disputing facts that i know to be true and can provide legitimate sources for, while the only source you have provided is wikipedia. besides i am not the one who made the original claim that hitler was vegitarian it was dngamecat. why the hell do you keep bothering me with this? are you bored or do you just want to piss me off?
1) You clearly did say that he was vegetarian
2) Articles on Wikipedia which can only be edited by moderators who go through what people bring up in the discussion page and carefully choose what is true and what isn't.
3) As far as I know, what you've said could be made up, because I have not seen the source for it.
4) dngamecat hasn't brought this up again so as far as I can tell he might believe me or he might not care enough to do anything. Either way I have no problem with him.
5)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_vegetarianism If you want sources, read every source on this page.
6) There is a difference between eating some meat and eating no meat at all.
7) I don't hate you I just want you to get your facts right.

If this is about the difference between being vegetarian and being mostly vegetarian than maybe we should establish the fact that vegetarianism means eating no animals. Saying that all vegetarians must eat meat occasionally is very arrogant.
my statement was about a vegitarian cook that hitler kept around to cook vegitarian meals for him.

i would also like to add this from the forum rules

Have Respect for Others
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but no one is entitled to attack others for sharing, or not sharing, that opinion. If you can't communicate without using combative, aggressive, or demeaning language, then please keep those comments to yourself, or be shown the door. Deliberately inflammatory threads; posts written with the sole intention of irritating people; attacks toward or inappropriate commentary regarding The Escapist staff, creators, or other posters; or attempts to derail a thread will be removed, as will your forum privileges.
i believe you have broken this rule.

oh, and here is my source http://www.amazon.com/Inside-Third-Reich-Albert-Speer/dp/0684829495
he isnt attacking you, and its not an opinion, if i said there was no such thing as the ocean, you wouldnt say everyone is entitled to their opinions, because its not an opinion, there is difference between facts and opinions
 

MASTACHIEFPWN

Will fight you and lose
Mar 27, 2010
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It was Illegal to sell E.T dolls in france, because the country has a law that bans the selling of any non-human doll in the country.
 

DevilWolf47

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Nov 29, 2010
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In The Silence of the Lambs when Hannible Lecter was talking about his favorite meal of liver, fava beans, and a nice Chianti before doing that funny mouth trick, he actually referred very specifically to foods you should never eat while on certain types of anti-depressants.


Another bit of useless trivia. There really was a cake.
 

SimuLord

Whom Gods Annoy
Aug 20, 2008
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rokkolpo said:
Donald duck did Inception before Leonardo di Caprio.
With Spike Jones providing the soundtrack? "When Der Fuhrer says, ve is ze master race..."
 

Claymorez

Our King
Apr 20, 2009
1,961
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The internet was invented by an Englishman and funded by the US Military.

On weighted average the human heart will beat only 2.5-3 billion times. That is averaging 72 beats per minute. You can in fact with some accuracy calculate the percentage of life you have left, and the value remarkably given factors in disease, genetics and external accidents like car crashes.

The famous heart shape from cupid's arrow heads are based off the shape of the female gluteus maximus seen from behind (and some argue turned upside down).