The Game of Thrones Dilemma

[PseudoDuck]

The shows may have the same end point in target (because Martin told the showrunners how it ends), but they're already way off from the direction the books are going.

The show is the show.
The book is the book.

I'm actually more excited for this season because there are almost definitely going to be some moments that will surprise the book readers.

 

[AkatsukiLeader13]

Well here's the thing, the show and the books are diverging more each season and it was recently revealed that the showrunners plan to kill off several characters that are alive as of the latest book, much like with the Battle of Caste Black this past season.

Plus they've axed Lady Stoneheart, sending Jaime this upcoming season to Dorne, which he never went to, and the recent season five trailer has some bookreaders up in arms about the potential removal of a significant character in the later books.

So yeah, they're quickly becoming two separate, yet similar things. Don't wait for the books to finish before watching the show and vice versa.

 

[freaper]

I've only been watching the show. I consider myself a big fantasy guy (Narnia, what's up?), but A Song of Fire and Ice seems like an unnecessarily daunting task even for me.

 

[SKBPinkie]

MY GoT dilemma is a bit different. I'm not sure if I should continue watching the series at this point.

It has reached the point where anything can happen to any character, and it now has the opposite effect on me. I don't care for any character any more. Why concern myself with what happens to them if they can just die in a random moment? Not sure I'm gonna watch the next season to be honest.

It's way too stressful at this point, and while it's okay for entertainment to not be all happy and stuff, it's far worse when something that I'm watching for relaxation is now so stressful.

 

[Breakdown]

I watch both the show, read the books, listen to audio books, and read the lore, along with the lore theories.

It's a good mix of different viewpoints, and more importantly, different ways of importance to detail in each medium, as well, since I also got the audio books, pretty good when you want to do something while still wanting the story to unfold.

The show and Book series are more or less two different universes at this point, and I fear very different endings as well, we will likely see worse and worse plot in the show, as they cut down more and more characters/stuff, they think they can put/add to existing characters but likely fail in the end, because the actual characters had different motivations to do each thing, or was victim to certain kinds of betrayal.

I'm sure the show will be good till the very last season, or even superb, if they simply bring GRRM to write each episode/script, for the last 1-2 seasons of the show, which could be in a few years.

 

[Silvanus]

I'm sure the show will be good till the very last season, or even superb, if they simply bring GRRM to write each episode/script, for the last 1-2 seasons of the show, which could be in a few years.

That'd significantly slow down the release of the last two books, though.

 

[Breakdown]

I'm sure the show will be good till the very last season, or even superb, if they simply bring GRRM to write each episode/script, for the last 1-2 seasons of the show, which could be in a few years.

That'd significantly slow down the release of the last two books, though.

He already wrote a few of the episodes or co-writed them. And at this point, I think he's already writing several parts of, "A Dream of Spring" any way, since he seems to like jumping between stuff to write on, not to mention the new kid's book, The Ice Dragon, which is rooted in the lore, and expanding it, as well.

I don't believe, the final book will be out before the show ends, but I do also think, we will be getting a lot of more lore coming, which ain't bad either. And surely we will be seeing another show from this world, rooted in either old Valyria, or Aegon himself.

Enjoy them all, and when the final book is released, we will get the epilogue we desire, hopefully.

 

[Breakdown]

It looks like it's been confirmed that the series will end before the books

http://metro.co.uk/2015/03/23/wait-what-game-of-thrones-will-end-the-saga-before-george-r-r-martins-books-5117352/

Bah.

 

[L. Declis]

The thing is, I don't trust the show runners to write well.
Every time they have diverged from the books, it has always made the story significantly worse. For example, the ever classic replacing Tysha with Shae and ruining a massive moment between Tyrion and Tywin and his brother (no hurt remarks to Jaime), making Tyrion a bit cheaper and removing "Where ever whores go"

I'll still watch, because Peter Dinklage has done such a great job, but I don't have faith in it.

 

[Carzinex]

The thing is, I don't trust the show runners to write well.
Every time they have diverged from the books, it has always made the story significantly worse. For example, the ever classic replacing Tysha with Shae and ruining a massive moment between Tyrion and Tywin and his brother (no hurt remarks to Jaime), making Tyrion a bit cheaper and removing "Where ever whores go"

I'll still watch, because Peter Dinklage has done such a great job, but I don't have faith in it.

That scene between Jaime and Tyrion, for me, was the biggest loss from the books so far. I felt like i'd been punched in the gut when i read it.I was looking forward to that episode especially for that interaction.

Sure theres a lot from the books that could be cut, i just don't trust the showrunners to keep the really great parts.

I'll still watch the show first but will always consider them the secondary incarnation of the story even when it overtakes the books.

 

[Hoplon]

Given the waffling bullshit of the last 3 or 4 books, TV all the way. they might get to the frigging story some time inside the lifespan of the sun.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The thing is, I don't trust the show runners to write well.

Pretty much this.

No matter what one's opinion of Martin's more recent books is, it is borderline indisputable that the show-writing is orders of magnitude worse. It goes beyond the occasional flat character or flubbed line, they're actively terrible. Schlocky, ham-fisted, network-drivel quality writing. They get occasionally praised for happy accidents, like Arya + Tywin, which succeeded on the simple strength of the performances, but the sad reality is that almost all of their inventions have been horrendous, and literally every single proud moment of the show was lifted virtually wholesale from the excellent books.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

On second thoughts, I think I'll be watching the show first, since I very highly doubt it will be possible to avoid spoilers in the time it takes for the books to hit shelves. I'd rather have the story spoiled by the show than by a bunch of cretins on the internet. Seriously, there is no way people will be able to keep quiet about the ending.

 

[Glongpre]

replacing Tysha with Shae

When did they do that? Shae was in the books, although wasn't as prominent as in the show. I can't remember them mentioning Tysha in the show though. I think it was kinda implied actually, when Tywin talks to Tyrion about his whoring. I only watched till the end of season 2 though, and I can hardly remember.

Spoiler: For people who have read all the books

Who believes the theory about Jon being the offspring of Rhaegar and Lyanna? It actually has a lot of evidence for it, and I like it. Obviously, Jon is an important character in this, and I am really excited to see how he is going to handle his arc in the next books.

Side note: I hope the Others actually attack en mass in the Winds of Winter. I think they will given the title, and it is going to be friggin bananas! They will probably attack after Stannis defeats Ramsay, and he is taking Winterfell. They will be able to get around the wall while it is lightly defended.

 

[Carzinex]

replacing Tysha with Shae

When did they do that? Shae was in the books, although wasn't as prominent as in the show. I can't remember them mentioning Tysha in the show though. I think it was kinda implied actually, when Tywin talks to Tyrion about his whoring. I only watched till the end of season 2 though, and I can hardly remember.

Spoiler: For people who have read all the books

Who believes the theory about Jon being the offspring of Rhaegar and Lyanna? It actually has a lot of evidence for it, and I like it. Obviously, Jon is an important character in this, and I am really excited to see how he is going to handle his arc in the next books.

Side note: I hope the Others actually attack en mass in the Winds of Winter. I think they will given the title, and it is going to be friggin bananas! They will probably attack after Stannis defeats Ramsay, and he is taking Winterfell. They will be able to get around the wall while it is lightly defended.

Spoiler: For people who have read all the books

Yeah, im thinking Jon is Rhaegars and Lyanna's. There are 3 dragons and we have Daenyrs but we need 2 more riders. So Jon and also that white haired young fellow who popped up down south with an army of mercs. I'm hoping to see alot more of him.

 

[L. Declis]

replacing Tysha with Shae

When did they do that? Shae was in the books, although wasn't as prominent as in the show. I can't remember them mentioning Tysha in the show though. I think it was kinda implied actually, when Tywin talks to Tyrion about his whoring. I only watched till the end of season 2 though, and I can hardly remember.

Spoiler: For people who have read all the books

Who believes the theory about Jon being the offspring of Rhaegar and Lyanna? It actually has a lot of evidence for it, and I like it. Obviously, Jon is an important character in this, and I am really excited to see how he is going to handle his arc in the next books.

Side note: I hope the Others actually attack en mass in the Winds of Winter. I think they will given the title, and it is going to be friggin bananas! They will probably attack after Stannis defeats Ramsay, and he is taking Winterfell. They will be able to get around the wall while it is lightly defended.

Spoiler: Book Spoilers

Basically, in the books, when Jaime rescues Tyrion, he confesses to Tyrion that Tysha, the girl Tyrion loved, actually WAS in love with him. Tywin and Jaime had forced her to be raped in front of Tyrion to get him away from such a low-born girl. Tyrion's lack of belief in himself and his belief that no one can love a dwarf has it's foundation in this lie created by his father and brother, who had sent away the only person who truly loved Tyrion, even if he was a dwarf.

In particular, Tyrion feels especially betrayed by Jaime, whom he loved unconditionally. He punches him. His final words to Jaime are to say that Cersei cheated on Jaime with his cousin. He promises that he will get his revenge on him, Tywin, Cersei and all the Lannisters, as they always pay his debts. He lies that he poisoned Joffrey to hurt Jaime, and then that Joffrey would have been a king worse than the Mad King had he become king, basically saying that Jaime's honour in being the Kingslayer, that it was worth it, was nothing because he threw away that honour for his family. This then means that Jaime had lost both his honour and his skill at arms, meaning he has nothing.

Then, when he goes to confront Tywin about Tysha, he sees Shea in his father's bed, meaning that this women who he loved was ACTUALLY a whore who betrayed him to his father, and his father betrayed him again with a women he loved. He strangles her in his anger, using the very same chain of the Hand of the King that had once bound him to his family, to his father, and the post he had loved Shae from.

He picks up Joffrey's crossbow, and confronts Tywin with a weapon used by his monstrous grandson, someone Tywin loved more than Tyrion despite their differences. He confronts Tywin on the toilet, a vulnerable position and for the first time in his life, Tyrion has the upper hand. Much like the previous owner of that crossbow, Tyrion takes those lessons learned from the Lannisters and threatens without honour. He demands from his father where Shae went. Tywin doesn't care about someone so poor, so utterly insignificant. Especially if that person matters to his son. Even if it broke his sons heart.

He asked Tywin where Shae went. Tywin responds that the "whore" likely was sent away. When he asked where, Tywin responds "where ever whores go", showing how utterly alien he was to Tyrion. He kills his father with the same lack of mercy that Tywin himself used, showing that in his anger, he is every bit a Lannister as Tywin, and perhaps the only one who could ever hope to match the old man himself.

Tyrion then leaves, unknowing to where to go or what to do, simply looking for Shae in "where ever whores go". It's one of the most powerful sequences in the entire series which defines the balance of power and pain in the Lannister family, and sets Tyrion on a course for vengeance, as well as putting Jaime in a position of true weakness.

That is what the T.V. completely cut down and ruined.

 

[L. Declis]

replacing Tysha with Shae

When did they do that? Shae was in the books, although wasn't as prominent as in the show. I can't remember them mentioning Tysha in the show though. I think it was kinda implied actually, when Tywin talks to Tyrion about his whoring. I only watched till the end of season 2 though, and I can hardly remember.

Spoiler: For people who have read all the books

Who believes the theory about Jon being the offspring of Rhaegar and Lyanna? It actually has a lot of evidence for it, and I like it. Obviously, Jon is an important character in this, and I am really excited to see how he is going to handle his arc in the next books.

Side note: I hope the Others actually attack en mass in the Winds of Winter. I think they will given the title, and it is going to be friggin bananas! They will probably attack after Stannis defeats Ramsay, and he is taking Winterfell. They will be able to get around the wall while it is lightly defended.

Spoiler: For people who have read all the books

Yeah, im thinking Jon is Rhaegars and Lyanna's. There are 3 dragons and we have Daenyrs but we need 2 more riders. So Jon and also that white haired young fellow who popped up down south with an army of mercs. I'm hoping to see alot more of him.

Spoiler: The other two riders

I am thinking both Tyrion and Jon.
Jon because of Lynna and Rheagar.
But regarding Tyrion, it is said that the Mad King took a fancy to Joanna Lannister, and may have raped her once or twice. That Tywin had always doubted that Tyrion was his son. That his hair was so blonde it was almost white. That he has always dreamt of riding a dragon. That the gift he wanted most was a dragon. The fact that Tyrion would never become heir to Casterly Rock as Tywin knew he wasn't his.
It's a theory, but it makes sense as Dany, Jon and Tyrion all killed their mothers in birth, and let's be honest, they are so heavily the main characters it's silly. Even that little death with Jon will just be skipped over and brought back to life to keep this trilogy going.

 

[Carzinex]

Spoiler: The other two riders

I am thinking both Tyrion and Jon.
Jon because of Lynna and Rheagar.
But regarding Tyrion, it is said that the Mad King took a fancy to Joanna Lannister, and may have raped her once or twice. That Tywin had always doubted that Tyrion was his son. That his hair was so blonde it was almost white. That he has always dreamt of riding a dragon. That the gift he wanted most was a dragon. The fact that Tyrion would never become heir to Casterly Rock as Tywin knew he wasn't his.
It's a theory, but it makes sense as Dany, Jon and Tyrion all killed their mothers in birth, and let's be honest, they are so heavily the main characters it's silly. Even that little death with Jon will just be skipped over and brought back to life to keep this trilogy going.

Spoiler: The other two riders

Never thought of that theory, i like it, as we know the books are filled with fake outs so i do have a suspicion Griff/Aegon is another red herring. On Jon's survival, i've read a lot on people thinking Melisadre will resurrect him however, and forgive me if i get the details wrong its been a while, but im sure the starting chapter in one of the books had a warg die while inhabiting the body of his wolf and he survived and then was never mentioned again. I think they may use this as a way of surviving, hmmm maybe even becoming 1 with a dragon, nah, that seems to far fetched.

 

[Glongpre]

Spoiler: The other two riders

Never thought of that theory, i like it, as we know the books are filled with fake outs so i do have a suspicion Griff/Aegon is another red herring. On Jon's survival, i've read a lot on people thinking Melisadre will resurrect him however, and forgive me if i get the details wrong its been a while, but im sure the starting chapter in one of the books had a warg die while inhabiting the body of his wolf and he survived and then was never mentioned again. I think they may use this as a way of surviving, hmmm maybe even becoming 1 with a dragon, nah, that seems to far fetched.

Spoiler

I think it was a DwD that had the shapeshifter prologue. I don't think they would have him only inhabit an animal because that basically kills his character. I also believe when people warg for too long they begin to lose their identity and just become whatever animal they have warged into. I mean he could take a chance and have Jon's chapters just be observation, but I don't think he will do that. Jon seems too important, he will be either revived (if he dies), or he has just gotten a bad wound and will be nursed back to health.

I think Aegon is a fake too.

I would laugh if GRR made Hodor the third head of the dragon. Can you imagine Hodor just burning and pillaging on his dragon, "Hodorrrrrrrrrrrr!"

I hope Tyrion is not a Targ, it just seems contrived and unoriginal, unless Jon isn't a targ, then it is fine. I won't like it as much if they both are the result of unknown sexual doings with Targs.

 

[Silvanus]

SNIP

SNIP

Spoiler: Book Spoilers.

I'm in a minority among book-readers, but I put less stock in prophecy (and the vague sayings of Quaithe) than most. The "three heads" is an example of something I think is attributed more meaning than it truly has. This may be because it's a red herring, or it may be because prophecy is shaky and unreliable even in-universe.

Hell, it may even end up being a genuine prophecy that simply goes unfulfilled, like Rhaegar's apparently-mystical belief that his child Aegon is destined for great things. That's how I read it, anyway.