The games are art defense

[I.Muir]

I'm a little hesitant to keep defending that games are able to be art, if games being art is the basis for defending every bad decision in regard to video games.

Games are expensive
Reply: They should be because they are art

Me3 has a crappy end
Reply: You can't criticize it on the basis that it is art

This is utter tripe


I keep saying again and again that just because games can be art does not mean all games are.
Yep all the clones of modern warfare, that's art is it? The developers set out to bare their collective soul, to leave you thinking and to connect with you on a emotional and psychological level through shared human experience. What they came up with is endless cover bases shooting at people through the sights huh?


Edit* In later posts I agree that under the definitions presented to me, that games are irrefutably art. I then point out however that it's too big of a leap to think of call of duty as art so more or less am making a judgement call saying it can be a fun game but is crappy art.

I tire of repeating myself but there's an example of another person talking about something similar in one of my posts. But since this a third rate source at best I have no hard evidence that they exist. So rather than join the scores of people that keep saying that they have never seen people saying these things and they are likely all better off, just treat what I'm saying as a theoretical exercise. If these people do or do not exist, are they completely retarded?

I don't actually care about whether or not you think games are art, as far as I'm concerned as soon as it became legally recognized it became no longer up for debate.

Edit** Stop telling people/me to stop making posts with anything to do with games and art. We don't care.

 

[oplinger]

Art is expression.

You can express yourself in games, every person making it can in their own way.

Games are a compilation of arts.

Games are art.

It's not really something you can refute.

 

[I.Muir]

So I understand that because a game may not have any meaning for me doesn't mean it doesn't have meaning for anybody else. However this suddenly means you aren't supposed to criticize it like some people are saying. That you can't put a price on it despite it being produced unlimited times to meet the need of everybody getting a copy.

Games are art because they are made up of the various arts. Sounds a little circular but ill roll with it and all that's left is to judge the quality of that art. To which many would reply that we are swimming in mediocrity (which personally I don't believe). However I will never think of the profit driven stream of clones as art.

NOW ON TO MY MAIN POINT
MAIN POINT
MAIN POINT
YOU SEE IT?!
So how does a game being art make it unable to be criticized? A vocal group I keep coming across I swear have to be trolling because it's insane. People criticize things, it's what we do but to just hide behind it's art so it needs no explanation is just ridiculous.

Also how am I thinking for everybody? I stated that using the it's art defense against any criticism was bullshit.

 

[the abyss gazes also]

1) Shakespeare is widely considered to be art. When you break it down, many of his plays are riddled with humor as highbrow as a dick joke.

2) Bioshock was deeply evocative, insightful, and unsettling.

If one is art, then two most definitely is. And art is supposed to be criticized and evaluated. Once you put it out in the world you leave it up to interpretation and critique.

 

[Limecake]

So how does a game being art make it unable to be criticized? A vocal group I keep coming across I swear have to be trolling because it's insane. People criticize things, it's what we do but to just hide behind it's art so it needs no explanation is just ridiculous.

Also how am I thinking for everybody? I stated that using the it's art defense against any criticism was bullshit.

who says you can't criticize art? not me because I think that's silly.

But that doesn't mean games aren't art. I also don't understand the arguement that you have to pay more for art, this is usually true for fine art (like paintings!) because there is usually one copy of that painting so the price someone is willing to pay for it becomes what it's value is (this does not apply to art that is mass produced including movies books or posters.)

also art doesn't need a meaning, it can just be aesthetically pleasing. for example:

would you say this is trying to convey a certain message? probably not. It looks cool though so I consider it art

Source:

art

noun
1.
the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.

you have to accept the fact that what we call 'art' is a completely subjective thing. What I find to be meaningful or important might not match yours.

 

[kingthrall]

Why defend the purpose of art? I mean seriously people need to get it into their thick skull
There is a major difference between games and art.

Art is interpreted by no physical interaction, there is no reward other than expressing your feelings from the interpretation.

Games are by physical action and usually a reward is placed in front of you for archiveing a goal. the interpretation is already there

 

[BloatedGuppy]

TBH, I really don't give a crap about this kind of discussion.

I was going to wearily reply to the OP, but then I saw this and liked it so much more I decided I'd just reply to this instead.

This forum seriously needs a break from the "Games are art" discussion. A nice long break.

 

[Nazulu]

Off topic: These discussions never make any sense to me. I've been trying to figure out what makes quality media for awhile now, and trying to figure out what is and isn't art is even more subjective than that.

Can you just accept that art doesn't even a have a proper meaning? It means a whole lot of things. I've basically broken it down to that any thing that's capable of entertaining is art, doesn't mean it's good, but if it can pull people in then that's good enough for me.

On topic: On that second reply, any thing can be criticised. ANYTHING!!! There is nothing sacred enough that can not be shot down. People who say other wise are most likely the ones that can't take seeing/hearing the flaws of something they love. All the more reason to ignore them really.

 

[TehCookie]

Just because it's art it doesn't mean it's good. Instead of just a bad game, it's a bad game and bad art. If you want to use I don't care because it's art then don't expect it to sell and since you made it for yourself you shouldn't care what others think. At least Tameem does the art defense right.

 

[malestrithe]

Games are art and product. Anything produced for mass consumption can be both art and product. Didn't Andy Warhol teach us anything? He dittoed copied pictures of Marilyn Monroe and put it through the 1960s equivalent of photoshop and called it art.

The only way it can't be art is if you avoid the issue entirely and placing arbitrary lines in the sand and saying if it's made for X reason, it can't be art.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

Art is subjective. For me that's all there is to it. But it's not like something has to be artistic in order to gain merit or entertainment value.

As someone who watched a ton of anime, there are titles that I think are worthy of artistic analysis and ones that I think are just shameless action and fanservice. Both can be entertaining or boring.

Me3 has a crappy end
Reply: You can't criticize it on the basis that it is art

I know people will hate on me for starting on the ME3 tirade again, but goddamn the discussions about artistic integrity were both rage inducing and entertaining at the same time.

I agree with you that it is complete tripe. Art does not make something immune to criticism and considering the level of executive meddling in ME3 (not to mention the writers being pushed out of the ending's development) why should it even be considered art at that point (once again, these are my personal feelings not facts).

 

[loa]

There are as many definitions of "art" as there are people and guess what?
All of them are equally valid.

That's why eberts claim that "games can't ever be art" is so utterly ridiculous.
I have no idea what the big deal is, really. Put rules on something like "art" that, by its distinct lack of clear definition can't -and some people would even say shouldn't- be inhibited by them and chances are good that you're missing the point completely.

One basic thing about art is that there is no "wrong" way of doing it.
People tend to forget that. They cling to their hundreds of years old definition of "art" as if that was the only truth.

 

[spartandude]

Art is expression.

You can express yourself in games, every person making it can in their own way.

Games are a compilation of arts.

Games are art.

It's not really something you can refute.

being art doesnt however refute criticism

 

[Yopaz]

Really depends on what tickles your fancy. After all the more colorful the game is, the more artsy my brain gets. Most games that can set a mood just by colors alone can be a basis for art. Pretty much drawn in by Yoshi's island hand drawn sprites. All I kept saying while I was playing it was, "damn, this game is an art form." Really liked how Limbo was in black and white, it made the game feel more creepy and cool. Don't speak for everybody and some people just don't care. Of course there are games like Heavy Rain that draw you in from a different perspective. So it really depends on how your brain is wired to see the world around you.

It's so good it brings a tear to my eye.

This was my favourite game for SNES. I miss those days when I was a young and I didn't have any worries beyond having fun.

OT: I don't consider games art because I often see the following things described as art:

Spoiler

[img=rotten fruit]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/04/25/article-2135092-12C1FDAF000005DC-970_964x880.jpg[/img]

There's also the artwork that the cleaning lady ruined because she thought it was garbage. I don't want to compare games wit art because basically anything can be called art. Games are games and I love them like that.

 

[boag]

Artists are not afraid to have their art Criticized.

Why do I keep seeing people use art as a defense?