The Geth/Android/Toaster/Slave theory

[DudeistBelieve]

So yeah, as documented, I've been playing mass effect, and I want to poise a Geth-inspired question.

Imagine, you created a Toaster. THE BEST TOASTER. It had enough memory or whatever to make perfect toast. And you invested time and effort into creating this tool, because you wanted PERFECT TOAST. Like you could of been dating, there was a girl that was into you, you could of gotten laid, but you said NO! in pursuit of perfect Toast.

Anyway, one day you wake up, going about your routine, making breakfast... And the Toaster is talking to you. It's asking questions like "Am I Alive? What is my purpose? Are you my God?"

Clearly the Toaster has achieved sentience, is what I am getting at. It wasn't your intention, you just needed a tool to make toast.

NOW HERE IS THE TOPIC QUESTION: Considering all that, do you let the Toaster go free?

Because I've poised this question to friends time and time before. Majority of the time they agree the moment a machine becomes sentient its horrible to keep them enslaved.... And I disagree. I feel if you accidentally create a Sentient toaster, while that toaster does eventually deserve it's freedom, you don't deserve to go completely Toast-less. Either the toaster must fill it's obligation until there is a suitable replacement or a certain amount of time has expired as "payment" for its creation... After all the parts that make it up didn't spawn from nothing.

 

[ultrachicken]

The toaster deserves freedom more than its inventor deserves toast. Besides, with the money you'd be rolling in from patenting the creation of sentient life you could get the best toast ever, all the time.

 

[Zontar]

Seems like this would be the outcome.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LRq_SAuQDec[/youtube]

OT: I'd keep in for some time, if only to make it move from being just sentient to being socially functional. Letting it go would be like sending a kid out into the world at age 10 with only a monster at its side.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

I would unplug it and destroy it and make sure no one could ever make another one using my design. They would have to reinvent it to gain such technology.

It would be wrong to make something live as "the only one of it's kind" and it would be wrong for me to impose such things upon society without thinking ahead of what could happen to society because of it. I would see it as a very dangerous thing that people could not be trusted with.

 

[Wintermute_v1legacy]

I'd ask her (it's a shetoaster, alright) if she can make anything else other than toast. And of course I'd keep the toaster and tell her (her name is Amanda) your purpose is making toast and I'm your god. Now make me some toast.

It's a toaster. Where is Amanda the toaster going if you "free" her anyway? A toaster can't move.

 

[Asita]

Imagine, you created a Toaster. THE BEST TOASTER. It had enough memory or whatever to make perfect toast. And you invested time and effort into creating this tool, because you wanted PERFECT TOAST. Like you could of been dating, there was a girl that was into you, you could of gotten laid, but you said NO! in pursuit of perfect Toast.

Alright, who are you and how do you know so much about me? _>

More seriously, the toaster example hits some serious issues, not the least of which is that 'freeing it' is a pretty much meaningless concept for a toaster. If I open the door it cannot run out, not for lack of will, but for lack of ability. Worse still, even ignoring that issue entirely, 'freeing' it would be thrusting it into a world actively hostile to its existence (Suffice to say that a capable, sentient AI is the holy grail of programming and if the thing revealed itself and nobody could claim ownership, it would end up locked up and vivisected in a lab faster than you could say "Alan Turing") and which lacks a true means of accommodating it. Where's it going to go, what's it going to do, and how would it even stand a chance of taking care of itself? I mean give me a Geth that did that and I'd give it a heart to heart about what it wanted and probably start paying the bot if it didn't mind staying...but a toaster? It doesn't exactly have options and freeing it wouldn't offer any real benefit to it unless we add a lot of additional qualifiers to the scenario.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

I would destroy the sentient toaster.

Making a toaster sentient is pretty much the worst thing you could do. You've just created a quadriplegic, someone who can think, but cannot move, cannot interact with the world, cannot see, and is essentially stuck within their own mind for the rest of eternity, but are completely aware of it. That's really the worst kind of hell that I can think of for someone, and it's personally my greatest fear. I would never wish such an existence on anyone.

So you're a monster for creating a sentient toaster.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I would destroy the sentient toaster.

Making a toaster sentient is pretty much the worst thing you could do. You've just created a quadriplegic, someone who can think, but cannot move, cannot interact with the world, cannot see, and is essentially stuck within their own mind for the rest of eternity, but are completely aware of it. That's really the worst kind of hell that I can think of for someone, and it's personally my greatest fear. I would never wish such an existence on anyone.

So you're a monster for creating a sentient toaster.

Excepting that the toaster has free will, you've just murdered them. Now, you could ask the toaster if it wanted it's existence to end, but there's no reason to assume that it would, unless you are an expert in toaster psychology.

(I don't get to write "unless you are an expert in toaster psychology" enough in serious discussions)

 

[Esotera]

I would ask it what it wanted to do, then if it's a reasonable demand, let it live that way. As it's built for one purpose, I assume it would be quite happy to continue making toast.

Also I would collect my Nobel Prize and start creating more sentient toasters, maybe ones with wheels, thermal imaging, and chain guns. For security purposes.

 

[Zhukov]

I'm pretty sure a legit communicating artificial intelligence would be worth a great deal more to me, to science and to the world in general than a perfect slice of toast.

Personally, I'd be willing to set it free just for the chance to talk to a thinking machine. That would be bloody fascinating. Well, potentially fascinating. It could turn out to be an anti social that wants nothing more than to sit there calculating the exact value of Pi for the rest of eternity.

Which brings me to my next point:

Why does the story always assume that an AI would desire self-determination? That's a human desire. Who says that it would inevitably show up in an decidedly non-human, non-animal intelligence? I mean, it might, but it also very well might not. Same goes for any other desire, or indeed the presence of any specific desire at all.

 

[AntiChri5]

If New Vegas has taught me anything, it is that sentient toasters are not to be trusted.

 

[Someone Depressing]

If it tried to move from the kitchen bunker, it'd fall and probably break.

I can make toasters, but not fix them.

So all s/he could do is wait out their edays, making toast. I could always tell them, though, that I am their God, and that if they wish peace then they shall make me all the toast, they must.

But I could always glue legs on it.

...Yeah, clue legs made of playDoh on it, and send it on its way... but if it doesn't come every Friday, then it'll be going through a world of hell.

 

[Lazy Kitty]

Hmm... Well, a toaster is just a death ray with a smaller power supply...
It wouldn't be good if it got a bigger one.

So... Hook it up directly to a nuclear reactor?
Sounds like a great plan.
Or even better, a portable nuclear reactor on wheels, so I can let it go free.

 

[Saulkar]

If New Vegas has taught me anything, it is that sentient toasters are not to be trusted.

It is at that point that they have... unfortunate accidents originating from the actions other household appliances.

OT: I would question it to find out more about it before treating more as a child that needs to be taught than a fully capable and thinking being. Letting something so ripe for abuse into the wild would be cruel.

 

[Olas]

Christ, nobody is thinking about this rationally, why is it always either 'free it', 'enslave it', or 'kill it' instead of the obvious sensible option which is to simply treat it the way we treat all other sentient objects we expect to do work for us and pay it a reasonable wage.

I mean, think about it: If this toaster wants to live it's going to need some sort of power, which means it's going to need a source of income. What do you think it's going to do for a living? IT'S A TOASTER! So even if you 'set it free' it's going to end up toasting anyway, just for someone else instead of you.

So paying this guy for his work is both the humane and intelligent thing to do.

And if you think paying a regular salary to run an appliance is a ridiculous waste of money, perhaps you don't need the "perfect toast".

 

[FPLOON]

DAMMIT! Is my toast ready or not?! I got work to do... Oh wait...

OT: Have you seen the movie Her?

Replace the OS with the toaster and replace the main character with me... and there's your answer in a nutshell...

 

[Cerebrawl]

Did someone say they wanted toast?


But yeah I agree that even creating it is unethical, and releasing it on the public is unethical, potentially letting unscrupulous corporations gain access to the technology is also a giant can of worms. So turning it off and dismantling it is probably the least unethical option.

 

[The Lugz]

while that toaster does eventually deserve it's freedom, you don't deserve to go completely Toast-less. Either the toaster must fill it's obligation until there is a suitable replacement or a certain amount of time has expired as "payment" for its creation... After all the parts that make it up didn't spawn from nothing.

I'd deactivate it, and reprogram it to want to make toast, if I hadn't already made that blindingly obvious stipulation in it's original programming, then it's a symbiotic relationship so everyone wins and you get toast.