The Kids are All Right

[Silvanus]

With a government who doesn't care about its own people since their deaths gets likes and retweets.

How exactly does this exonerate the IDF?

You can pearl clutch all you like, but women and children can be as dangerous as men. Its not just men that can fire a gun or throw/be a bomb. I think one of the most civilian killing suicide bombers back in the 90s was a woman and a child.

So you're just assuming those civilians were all secretly combatants, without a shred of evidence, so that the force massacring them cannot be held culpable. Gotcha.

I think its more because of the kind of discussion we are having. Till I asked if you considered what hamas would like to do as genocide I had only heard you accuse Israel, nothing about what hamas was doing.

Then you haven't been paying attention, because I've repeatedly criticised Hamas on this board. Now get back on topic: the IDF has caused the overwhelming majority of death and devastation in this war, so our focus is there.

Extreme steps should be taken to avoid noncombatants from being involved in military action.

You say this, and yet you don't believe it. When the IDF explicitly targets them-- such as bombing safe zones they themselves set up, or indiscriminately gunning down civilians in the streets-- you make excuses and assumptions to excuse them.

 

[Worgen]

How exactly does this exonerate the IDF?

It doesn't. The IDF has gone too far, but one can understand why they are just kinda done with it at this point.

So you're just assuming those civilians were all secretly combatants, without a shred of evidence, so that the force massacring them cannot be held culpable. Gotcha.

Never said all or even most, but consider the solder on the ground, if you see a woman running towards you with something, do you wait to see if its a grenade or take the shot. This is more to just put you in the mind of troops on the ground. Its why uniforms are so important, so there is a distinction and when you have a force that is perfectly willing to blend into civilians then more civilians are going to die.

Then you haven't been paying attention, because I've repeatedly criticised Hamas on this board. Now get back on topic: the IDF has caused the overwhelming majority of death and devastation in this war, so our focus is there.

Of course I'm not really paying attention to the politics board, its where you go to be annoyed in general. I doubt you will convince me and I doubt I will convince you. I would expect the IDF to have caused much more devastation, they have a much greater capacity for it and after October 7th they seem like they are just done with the whole thing.

You say this, and yet you don't believe it. When the IDF explicitly targets them-- such as bombing safe zones they themselves set up, or indiscriminately gunning down civilians in the streets-- you make excuses and assumptions to excuse them.

If they are targeting civilians then they should be punished. But when one force uses guerilla tactics, the line between civilian and insurgent becomes blurry.

 

[Silvanus]

It doesn't. The IDF has gone too far, but one can understand why they are just kinda done with it at this point.

Would you say the same for Hamas? That "they've gone too far, but one can understand why they are just kinda done with it"? Or does extreme duress only explain war crimes on the one side? Because let me tell you, the IDF has been under a lot less duress than the Palestinians.

Never said all or even most, but consider the solder on the ground, if you see a woman running towards you with something, do you wait to see if its a grenade or take the shot. This is more to just put you in the mind of troops on the ground. Its why uniforms are so important, so there is a distinction and when you have a force that is perfectly willing to blend into civilians then more civilians are going to die.

Christ almighty, no, you do not gun someone down if you merely see them running. The IDF has entered into their homes, their towns, their civilian areas. What exactly are civilians supposed to do...? They're not allowed to run, now, lest they look guilty? You're cooking up a standard that excuses absolutely anything.

Of course I'm not really paying attention to the politics board, its where you go to be annoyed in general.

OK. Then don't make baseless assumptions about me.

 

[Worgen]

Would you say the same for Hamas? That "they've gone too far, but one can understand why they are just kinda done with it"? Or does extreme duress only explain war crimes on the one side? Because let me tell you, the IDF has been under a lot less duress than the Palestinians.

Of course. They view their land as having been stolen from them, I can totally understand why they attack Israel and even why they use guerilla tactics. They know they can't go toe to toe with Israel so they hide in the crowd and strike them anyway they can.

Christ almighty, no, you do not gun someone down if you merely see them running. The IDF has entered into their homes, their towns, their civilian areas. What exactly are civilians supposed to do...? They're not allowed to run, now, lest they look guilty? You're cooking up a standard that excuses absolutely anything.

Depending on where they are running and what they are holding, you certainly do.

 

[Silvanus]

Depending on where they are running and what they are holding, you certainly do.

And those civilians in Israel-designated safe-zones or refugee camps, bombed by IAF fighters. Those women and children were also posing a deadly and immediate threat to the fighter jets passing overhead, I suppose.

Get a grip. You're justifying indiscriminate slaughter.

 

[Worgen]

And those civilians in Israel-designated safe-zones or refugee camps, bombed by IAF fighters. Those women and children were also posing a deadly and immediate threat to the fighter jets passing overhead, I suppose.

Get a grip. You're justifying indiscriminate slaughter.

Sounds like war crimes to me, but with how hamas operates it kinda lets the idf justify a lot.

 

[Silvanus]

Sounds like war crimes to me, but with how hamas operates it kinda lets the idf justify a lot.

"Justify a lot" to people already predisposed to accept or ignore war crimes. Not to people who think the Geneva conventions and other standards of wartime conduct should be upheld.

Phone footage appears to contradict Israeli account of killing of Gaza paramedics

Israel says soldiers fired on ‘terrorists’ in ‘suspicious vehicles’ but footage shows clearly marked ambulances using flashing emergency lights

www.theguardian.com

^ observe: the IDF had claimed these were terrorists in "suspicious vehicles", and that's why they were destroyed. Now we have recovered phone footage from inside showing they were clearly-marked ambulances with paramedics. Hamas didn't force the IDF to act this way. The IDF carried this out, and lied about it afterwards, because they act with impunity.