The Last Of Us Faces Another Rip-Off Accusation - UPDATED

[Aardvaarkman]

You have a very odd definition of "deserve".

No, I'm using the standard definition.

He said that if someone's going to make money from his stuff, then they have to pay him.

Notice the "if" there? I don't think he ever expected his work to be used in a commercial project, or to make money from it. He wasn't going around saying "I made these maps, now give me money!"

It's more that he was shocked to the the work used in an unauthorized manner. I'm not aware that he ever even offered these maps for sale in the first place.

The Last of Us is making money.

Ergo, he thinks that they have to pay him.

Again, I'll remind you of the "if". If he had been approached by them first, he may have simply not allowed them to use it.

Burden's on you to prove otherwise, because simple observation supports the assertion that he thinks he deserves money for it.

Sorry, but no. He says that they have resolved the matter, but there's been no mention of money changing hands. If you have proof of that, I'd like to see it.

 

[lacktheknack]

You have a very odd definition of "deserve".

No, I'm using the standard definition.

He said that if someone's going to make money from his stuff, then they have to pay him.

Notice the "if" there? I don't think he ever expected his work to be used in a commercial project, or to make money from it. He wasn't going around saying "I made these maps, now give me money!"

It's more that he was shocked to the the work used in an unauthorized manner. I'm not aware that he ever even offered these maps for sale in the first place.

The Last of Us is making money.

Ergo, he thinks that they have to pay him.

Again, I'll remind you of the "if". If he had been approached by them first, he may have simply not allowed them to use it.

Burden's on you to prove otherwise, because simple observation supports the assertion that he thinks he deserves money for it.

Sorry, but no. He says that they have resolved the matter, but there's been no mention of money changing hands. If you have proof of that, I'd like to see it.

We're never going to agree because we're using completely different versions of English.

 

[FalloutJack]

Snip

Dude, you're taking this way too seriously, and you're doing that thing where you divide my post up into little snippets and I hate that. Cut it out. In any case, my points are not what you call irrelvent, but a different perspective which also applies in the reality we live in. Now, you can get bent out of shape over that, like our man of the map does, or you can take it in stride like me and not sweat the small stuff. It's just a map, not even anything really personal. If there's anything here that's irrelevent, it's the original claim. This guy is not going to be taken seriously.

 

[Lieju]

Snip

Dude, you're taking this way too seriously, and you're doing that thing where you divide my post up into little snippets and I hate that.

Really?

Cut it out.

Okay.

In any case, my points are not what you call irrelvent, but a different perspective which also applies in the reality we live in. Now, you can get bent out of shape over that, like our man of the map does, or you can take it in stride like me and not sweat the small stuff. It's just a map, not even anything really personal. If there's anything here that's irrelevent, it's the original claim. This guy is not going to be taken seriously.

Your perspective was that you wouldn't mind if someone stole your work, so this guy shouldn't either.
Look, if you don't want to have discussions, don't post on discussion-forums.

Isn't it interesting that this game is being called out on several "rip-offs" only after it's received enough praise that many seem to consider it as one of the best games of the current console generation? I wonder if this game had been a total flop, if we would have heard from either of these two about how it's so offensive to them that their works are ripped off and yada yada.

Because it's so good and has gotten so much publicity, the chances of people noticing their work was used was higher. As was the chances of this kind of stuff getting reported.

Also, if the game hadn't been so good, I suspect there's be less people jumping to defend Naughty Dog.

I think both this guy and Ellen just smelled money and jumped for it.

How did Ellen try to profit from it, exactly?

That doesn't mean it's okay for Naughty Dog to rip-off other people, mind. Only that I sincerely doubt the motives of these two "poor victims" were as pure as they pretend to be. They just want a piece of the pie like everyone else. Justified or not, greed is still greed, and it's disgusting to look at.

Yes, people should not get paid for their work. That's greedy.

Unless they're multi-million corporations, of course.

 

[FalloutJack]

....

That isn't what I said and you know it. If you don't want to understand what I said, don't call me out on things. I say it isn't work it isn't worth anything, and it's lying on the ground like a mislaid button. And you missed out on all of it. Now, you will cut the instigating. You're already reported.

 

[Dragonbums]

Now that they know it is his, I agree they should respond, but to be honest depending on how they discovered it I can't see it being difficult to not realise that it was made by a graphic designer, it's not like it was a well known intellectual property or anything. I wouldn't be surprised if they just image searched for a map and it came up somewhere.

Although of course they should still have done their research and looked into it properly.

As a company, and a big one at that, just because you find something on Google images, doesn't mean it automatically means it's up for grabs.
You have to take the time to find out the source of the image you want to use, and finding out whether or not it's legally protected or not.

That's like me finding a picture of Mickey Mouse online, and using it in a selling product.
Turns out it was official art, and Disney wants to sue me to bankruptcy.
Me saying I found it on Google images is not going to protect me in court.

 

[Dragonbums]

....

That isn't what I said and you know it. If you don't want to understand what I said, don't call me out on things. I say it isn't work it isn't worth anything, and it's lying on the ground like a mislaid button. And you missed out on all of it. Now, you will cut the instigating. You're already reported.

I think people seriously undervalue the time and energy it takes to make an accurate map of the subway system. Especially in a Graphic Design setting.
How is what he did not work exactly?
You'd be surprised how difficult it is to get everything in correct position. Especially when it's supposed to resemble something from real life.

It can get easily cluttered. It can get easily inaccurate by just a single half-inch.
He can easily skip over a location by accident that might be unimportant to him, but very important to one who needs to find said location if they ever look at that map in real life.
He even has to account for the "You are here" dot depending on where he's told the maps would be located.

It's like as the years go by, the general public take less and less into consideration how much work is put into this stuff and in art in general.

 

[Kukakkau]

Well since the creator of that map's image has the MBTA logo and website on it as per the original and he posted segments of his map version on tumbler without providing a source link to his page or saying who made it I'm finding it hard to build up any sympathy

Granted his website is on the finished image in a very small font size in the bottom left, so if someone can find that on the image in game it should be easy to tell. Unless it was intentionally hidden

 

[BarkBarker]

They could have just made one themselves, there are means of creation beyond ripping from the internet when you have all that uncharted money you know.

 

[Edl01]

But I think he is over-reacting by saying that he is "fucking furious". I mean I admit I would be a bit annoyed, but I don't think I would get all that angry at a game using something that I created. Granted that doesn't mean I wouldn't press charges against the company like it seems our man over here threatened to do, but I feel he is kind of over-reacting there.

Honestly it just seems like a dumb mistake on Naughty Dogs behalf, I highly doubt they where maliciously using his updated map, they probably just didn't notice that it was updated. I doubt this will end up going anywhere either, Naughty Dog if they aren't stupid will just pay the man his dues and then they can sweep it under the rug.

P.S. I still think the whole Ellie=Ellen Paige thing is a complete coincidence. It looks like the Last of Us is running into all sorts of random bit of trouble here.

 

[Lieju]

If she's not already in talks with the studio to settle the situation, then she'll be looking to file suit. Just you wait..

If that happens, then it happens.
But the fact is, you're saying she is greedy because she mentioned (when asked) in an interview that she thought her likeness was ripped off.
I don't think she will, though, because I don't think she has grounds for it, and I don't think she expressed anything else than annoyance that people will get those two games mixed up.

Yes, people should not get paid for their work. That's greedy.

Unless they're multi-million corporations, of course.

That, of course, presumes that the work(s) in question were actually ripped off and not just similar, but okay, we can play that game.

Let's pretend this was genuinely ripped off piece of work in both cases. That Naughty Dog definitely intended to make their character into Ellen, and that they clearly stole this subway layout from this person, and that in both cases it was done with utterly malicious intent. How much do they "deserve" for this tiny contribution of work that barely encompasses a fraction of the overall product?

Accreditation in the end credits? A financial sum? And if the latter, how much?

I don't think intent really matters, in the case of the map, at least.

With Ellen, I don't think she should be compensated (ND should probably admit they based Ellie on her, and changed her design because they found out Ellen was acting in Two souls), but with this guy, where they used his work, he should get paid.
I have no idea how much licenses for maps like that cost (maps can be expensive, though)...

But if it was really such a small amount of work he did, then it shouldn't have been a big deal for ND to make a map themselves, from scratch, right?
Or find an image they can use and pay for it in the first place?

 

[FalloutJack]

A more interesting view.

It could be. It MIGHT be. But I don't really think what I call serious graphics work would be handled in this fashion. Noe, obviously he and people of the game have come to an accord on the matter and he admits himself that his blustery attitude was a mistake, but I still think that things you value that much should - if you're going to put it on the internet like that - have some kind of proviso or disclaimer covering you, so as to say "Hey, you were warned". I don't think this would happen if at least that were observed, what about you?

 

[Dragonbums]

A more interesting view.

It could be. It MIGHT be. But I don't really think what I call serious graphics work would be handled in this fashion. Noe, obviously he and people of the game have come to an accord on the matter and he admits himself that his blustery attitude was a mistake, but I still think that things you value that much should - if you're going to put it on the internet like that - have some kind of proviso or disclaimer covering you, so as to say "Hey, you were warned". I don't think this would happen if at least that were observed, what about you?

It's a public map though.
Chances are, his map was displayed on whatever social media site his puts up his works.
Which in that case is in fair show to be displayed on Google images. Not to mention the fact that Metropolis themselves would've displayed it on their site.
However most people often resort to these measures of ruckus because in the real world, had he of gone in and asked them to politely credit him for his work, then he would've been ignored. Completely.
So instead of wasting his time, he caused a huge ruckus. That always leads to something being done.

 

[FalloutJack]

A more interesting view.

It could be. It MIGHT be. But I don't really think what I call serious graphics work would be handled in this fashion. Noe, obviously he and people of the game have come to an accord on the matter and he admits himself that his blustery attitude was a mistake, but I still think that things you value that much should - if you're going to put it on the internet like that - have some kind of proviso or disclaimer covering you, so as to say "Hey, you were warned". I don't think this would happen if at least that were observed, what about you?

It's a public map though.
Chances are, his map was displayed on whatever social media site his puts up his works.
Which in that case is in fair show to be displayed on Google images. Not to mention the fact that Metropolis themselves would've displayed it on their site.
However most people often resort to these measures of ruckus because in the real world, had he of gone in and asked them to politely credit him for his work, then he would've been ignored. Completely.
So instead of wasting his time, he caused a huge ruckus. That always leads to something being done.

Considering his apologetic update, I disagree that ruckus was the right move. I don't think we CAN see eye to eye on that one.

 

[Roman Monaghan]

So it's that Nyan Cat in Scribblenauts thing again?

Cool, so I can just let Jim express the rational not retarded opinion for me http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/7230-Lawsuits-Memes-and-Tasty-Medicine?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=videos