The Last of Us: Plot/Ending Discussion

cjspyres

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I believe it goes without saying that there will be spoilers ahead.

So, I literally just finished The Last of Us as I type this. As the credits rolled, I wondered, "How do I feel about this decision"?

I don't think a games ending has ever left me feeling so conflicted, and that is what I'd like to discuss. How do you feel about what Joel did in the end? Do you believe he was selfish in his actions, or was he only doing what he thought was right?

In my opinion, I believe that a part of Joel just snapped. He couldn't take anymore loss or pain, so he decided to fight in order to keep the one thing keeping him alive and sane. I believe his choice is completely selfish, and honestly, a bit scary. He knows that saving her was wrong, and possibly, has convinced himself that it happened the way he said. He's made it clear that he will never give up or lose the girl.

So what do you fellow Escapists think? Do you believe it's not as dark as I've imagined, or perhaps even darker? Are you satisfied with this ending?

As for me, I am fully happy with the ending. I'm glad that they didn't end it a predictable note, and it really adds weight to what he says about finding a reason to survive. Ellie is his reason, and he will protect her whether it is right or not.
 

Casual Shinji

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I agree.

The ending was very nihilistic and bleak, like much of the game itself, and tops off the story masterfully. It's sort of an interesting break down of the "Hero/damsel" trope. Ellie doesn't really need Joel's protection anymore, but he can't give up that role because it's all that keeps him going.

Near the end when Marlene attempts a last-ditch effort, it's made clear Ellie would be more than willing to sacrifice herself for a cure. But Joel is now hopelessly depended on being Ellie's protector, and her death would mean his. Ofcourse there's also very much his projection of Sarah onto Ellie, and how he couldn't protect his own daughter, so he will now protect Ellie at any price, even if it's against her will.

Add to that Joel and Ellie returning to his brother's settlement, which has as much chance of being overrun by infected or bandits as any of the demolished quarantine zones you passed during the game.
 

cjspyres

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Casual Shinji said:
I agree.

The ending was very nihilistic and bleak, like much of the game itself, and tops off the story masterfully. It's sort of an interesting break down of the "Hero/damsel" trope. Ellie doesn't really need Joel's protection anymore, but he can't give up that role because it's all that keeps him going.

Near the end when Marlene attempts a last-ditch effort, it's made clear Ellie would be more than willing to sacrifice herself for a cure. But Joel is now hopelessly depended on being Ellie's protector, and her death would mean his. Ofcourse there's also very much his projection of Sarah onto Ellie, and how he couldn't protect his own daughter, so he will now protect Ellie at any price, even if it's against her will.

Add to that Joel and Ellie returning to his brother's settlement, which has as much chance of being overrun by infected or bandits as any of the demolished quarantine zones you passed during the game.
Perfectly worded my friend. I find it almost infinitely pleasing that they broke away from the typical trope to tell a story like this. I remember when it ended, I was pretty surprised on the final note. You get so used to typical endings that when a bleak and serious one shows up, it's almost jarring.
 

Joseph Harrison

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Casual Shinji said:
Near the end when Marlene attempts a last-ditch effort, it's made clear Ellie would be more than willing to sacrifice herself for a cure. But Joel is now hopelessly depended on being Ellie's protector, and her death would mean his. Ofcourse there's also very much his projection of Sarah onto Ellie, and how he couldn't protect his own daughter, so he will now protect Ellie at any price, even if it's against her will.
I think that its more that he lost his daughter for "the greater good" and look at all the good that did. The vaccine wouldn't have been able to stop the clickers and infected that already exist and the world has already gone to shit. I think that Joel wasn't willing to lose his newfound daughter especially since I don't think it would do any good. Think of it this way, Ellie was immune to the disease and was she in any less danger throughout the game, no she was in just as many life threatening positions and the only time her immunity came in handy was when she didn't have to wear a gas mask. Out of all the major characters in the game all of them were killed by humans, none of the major characters were killed by an infected with the exception of Sam I guess, where even though Henry killed him, I would say he was already dead because he was infected.
I'm not sure if Joel made the right choice, because both the options were kinda morally grey, but I think that given the options I agree with the decision he made. And I don't think Ellie would have let her self be sacrificed, she was talking about all the things she wanted to do after this was over and she so knew that Joel was lying to her about what happened in Salt Lake City and she just let herself believe the lie.
 

Ragsnstitches

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Casual Shinji said:
I agree.

The ending was very nihilistic and bleak, like much of the game itself, and tops off the story masterfully. It's sort of an interesting break down of the "Hero/damsel" trope. Ellie doesn't really need Joel's protection anymore, but he can't give up that role because it's all that keeps him going.

Near the end when Marlene attempts a last-ditch effort, it's made clear Ellie would be more than willing to sacrifice herself for a cure. But Joel is now hopelessly depended on being Ellie's protector, and her death would mean his. Ofcourse there's also very much his projection of Sarah onto Ellie, and how he couldn't protect his own daughter, so he will now protect Ellie at any price, even if it's against her will.

Add to that Joel and Ellie returning to his brother's settlement, which has as much chance of being overrun by infected or bandits as any of the demolished quarantine zones you passed during the game.
I'm not too sure about Ellie being willing to do it. There was a whole mess of ambiguity in that section. She was unconscious since the incident in the tunnel and only wakes up in the car. There was no consent. That's a shit start. Would ellie have accepted her fate? She could have... if her distance and aloofness at the beginning of that chapter carried over to the end. She seemed detached and melancholic for a while and that loss of self could easily lead her to accepting such a fate. But then she sees the giraffes and she suddenly snaps out of it. Even echoing Joels desire to teach her guitar with "you can teach me how to swim". She starts to find herself again, but that revitalisation is cut short.

Not to mention, we are aware at this point the thing ellie is scared of most is being alone. Joel is afraid of attachment, but proximity leads to the inevitable. The 2 are inextricably bound to each other, as strong as any paternal/child relationship, except without the blood bond. So Joels inability to turn away is painfully understandable.

Then there is Marlenes selfishness. She claims to know what Ellie wants, but she is driven by her own fear, of infection et al, not Ellies well-being. She is rationalising it in her mind, turning it over and over, even talking to a long deceased friend, Ellies mother Anna, looking for a escape from her guilt. Her fear kept her from fulfilling her promise and she only convinced herself it was for the good of mankind to sacrifice Ellie. Heck, at one point we even find out she doesn't believe she had a choice to begin with, but that didn't bring to rebel... despite her revolutionary idealism she couldn't revolt. She just submitted and adopted ellies captors mentality.

Joel, while equally selfish, is also fighting for ellies sake. After all ellie went through during the winter when Joel was out of it, the last thing he could do is walk away. If they let him talk to her that would have been fine. But they didn't want her awake... they didn't want to risk her rejecting their plans.

None of Ellies captors wanted to give her the choice. They saved her, then drugged her and sent her to her execution. For the greater good? Perhaps, and she wouldn't suffer to boot. But the action is stripped of all humanity. She is reduced to a vessel. A glorified organ carrier. Would the curious and naively optimistic ellie we knew want that? Whats more, if the fireflies got to her first as was initially planned, would they have groomed her to accept her fate or would they have just taken it anyway?

What got me was when Joel blows away the surgeon with the gun only for another to go "you animal" or something to that effect, while ellie lies comatose waiting to be dissected, like a cadaver right their the fuck in front of them.

In the end there was no guarantee they could synthesise or disseminate a cure from their research, it was only wishful thinking (though the best chance available). If that ended up being the case then the best thing would be for ellie to live on to propagate her genetic immunity. Otherwise they just murdered mankinds last hope for survival on a fear driven whim.

As for what Joel did explicitly. He lied to Ellie about the events that transpired for the obvious reason... to spare her the grizzly truth of what happened (marlenes emotional abandonment for "teh grater gud" as well as her brutal, cowardly demise, and the crushing reality that their journey of hope, all they went through, demanded a callous sacrifice with no relief from their ordeal). Does he need to this? Probably not, after what we see Ellie go through we can assume she understands the depravity mankind can drop to.

But more to the point, he lied to keep her with him. Where she is safe (possibly unnecessary) and he isn't lost without purpose.

In the end, despite the ambiguity, I think Joel did right by ellie by leaving her fate to be a choice of her own making. But its undeniable he lied for his own sake.

As for the chance that their new home could be overrun. Well... as Joel responded to Marlenes line of the same fatalistic notion. Its not anyone's choice to make but theirs.

... holy shit that was a long post. I'm sorry, this game really got to me.
 

Headdrivehardscrew

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Ragsnstitches said:
... holy shit that was a long post. I'm sorry, this game really got to me.
Don't worry, it's all worth reading.

And The Last Of Us definitely is a ride worth taking, a game worth playing, a story worth witnessing as the events unfold.

It's some great interactive fiction.

And I must admit that I really needed that after Bioshock Infinite. I'm not hatin' on Bioshock Infinite. I love the firefights and strategic bits in 1999 mode. But the story, the twist, the Levine special non-kosher rub just rubbed me the wrong way, all the way.

The Last Of Us might seem - or actually be - bleak, Joel's decision might be all sorts of wrong, but, alas, as a human being I can relate to pretty much everything anyone does in the course of this tale, from beginning to end. There's no supernatural hocus pocus, just various people in a predicament, faced with adversity, trying to survive even when making a living seems to be more borne out of being bored with living life as a imprisoned cattle than out of proper necessity. After all, pretty much everything has gone to shits since the shrooms took over. This 'game' hits you right between the eyes during the non-interactive scenes of exposure, and it demands that you keep your shit together at all times when you're given control. There is very little margin for error, and I was delighted to get some of my vanilla of choice gaming flavour, which is the D* Souls flavour during those unforgivable mushroomhead confrontation moments. The suspense of Condemned, the invitation to go for perfect runs from Dark/Demon's Souls, the excellent dialogue and writing from that Hollywood movie I haven't seen before and the technical perfection derived from years of Uncharted sparring with both the code and the hardware... but NONE of the annoyances of Uncharted.

I loved playing through this one, as it's bound to stick with you for a while. Question life, question people, question everything. Once again, a piece of interactive fiction that is easily on par with, if not quite beyond what many a movie or book could deliver.
 

Xathos

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I didn't personally like the way the ending went since I found Joel to just kinda go crazy and start killing everyone for selfish reasons, but I still think it worked perfectly for the game and it was right to end the way it did.

I should probably explain.

The situation was definitely a gray area. This girl is the possible key to creating a vaccine, and who knows, they might be able to go even further, reverse some of the effects! But to do that they have to kill her. She will never grow up, she will never learn how to swim, she is just a kid. Its a crappy situation, one that Marlene in particular hates to her core, but she believes it has to be done. I actually agree with her decision to kill Ellie.

What I don't agree with is how they basically decided this without any input from her specifically. They found her unconscious, drugged her up to keep her that way, and were going to pretty much murder her. And though Marlene has a point in that Ellie would indeed sacrifice herself for the cause, the fact they did so without consulting her rubs me the wrong way.

Then you have Joel, who pretty much sees Ellie as his adopted daughter by this point. Its interesting to wonder how much of his own daughter Sarah he is projecting onto Ellie. While he admits that she is completely different from Sarah, that final level acts almost as a revenge of sorts. He wasn't able to protect his own daughter, and was essentially helpless. By the time this roles around, he is clearly a different man, a man who just lets out all this frustration to protect the one thing he cares about. He WILL save her this time. So he slaughters everybody, and you even have the choice of killing all the doctors in the room, the few people specialized in studying the infection, all for the sake of this one girl.

But to me, Joel was clearly in the wrong. It was a crappy situation no doubt, and it could have been handled SO much better if Marlene, Joel, and Ellie sat in a room and talked about it. He was too afraid of failing, or letting go, or symbolically losing his daughter again, or whatever you think Joel was feeling. But this chance was too good to pass up. He sacrficed the fate of the world and its people, for one person. As heroic as that can sound (especially in romance stories), he was so caught up in his own selfish desires he pretty much screwed everybody. To sacrifice the world for someone, or walk through hell to save the ones you love is fine, but not if you end up condemning everyone in said world. It really just...irks me morally on what Joel did (Not just Joel, I actually get irked by this notion in most stories that do this unless they have a really good justification for it or something).

And yet it was perfect. Joel was never seen as a particularly good or evil character. He was a guy who did what he had to to get by for himself. And that's exactly what he did here, He didn't see himself as actually living without Ellie, and he just chose the natural path, the only one he knew how to take because that's all he has ever done since the infection started. What Joel did, and the results stemming from his actions, are perfectly inline with how they game delivers its tone, setting, and characters. It even leaves things a bit ambiguous, as you can argue whether Ellie believe Joel's lie to her or not. I'm actually glad they gave you control over her in that last chapter, because I was so disconnected from Joel that controlling Ellie made me gravitate to her more.

So...hopefully that all made sense. Fireflies were right (mostly), Joel was wrong (mostly), and I hated it, but I liked that I hated it. I would totally LOVE to see Joel get his comeuppance (in fact, for a small bit I thought the game would have you kill Joel as Ellie or something, lol) someday.
 

thilinab

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I don't think Joels actions at end were all that selfish considering the last couple of conversations he and Ellie have. The first one after the scene with the giraffes where she says "every thing we've been through can't be be for nothing". And in the last scene when she talks about Riley and how she was "waiting for her turn to loose her mind and die" since being infected. On top of that she also blames her self for a lot of the deaths along the way such as Tess and Sam. To me it seems like Joel lied to protect Ellie from herself, so that she doesn't blame herself for all the dead fireflies and maybe even people she feels might have been save by the vaccine.

Either way an uneasy and dark ending was a great end to an amazing game. Definitely the best piece of entertainment (movies, tv shows and books included) this year if not for quite a long time.
 

HippySteve

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What I loved about The Last of Us was that it was never about saving the world, it was about the human condition and Joel recovering his inner humanity, that the loss of Tess and Sarah and the brutal, unforgiving world of post-apocalyptic black market trading in a disheveled quarantine zone had robbed him of. It was about Ellie finding someone who wouldn't abandon her, about her softening as well and becoming human.
TL;DR
The Last of Us was not about saving the world, The Last of Us was about being human, even when the world wants nothing to do with it.
 

Casual Shinji

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Ragsnstitches said:
In the end there was no guarantee they could synthesise or disseminate a cure from their research, it was only wishful thinking (though the best chance available). If that ended up being the case then the best thing would be for ellie to live on to propagate her genetic immunity. Otherwise they just murdered mankinds last hope for survival on a fear driven whim.
I thought of that too initially. But as Marlene said, Ellie's immunity lies not in her genetic makeup, but in the freak occurrence of the Cordyceps having mutated in her brain in such a way that it makes her immune - It won't carry over to her children. Ellie at the end even mentions that she's still waiting for her turn, which might very well happen. Maybe not for years, but the Cordyceps in her brain is still there, and could easily turn on her when she least expects it.

There is no right or wrong here though. The Fireflies were likely just as delusional as... practically everyone else in this world. Robert says at the beginning that the Fireflies are hanging by a thread, and their hospital HQ is all but abondened except for a small platoon of militia and three doctors. So even if Ellie truly held the cure, the Fireflies would probably be in no state to actually synthesize and manufacture it.

And this is the theme running throughout the entire game; The futility of surviving for the sake of survival. Each character deludes themselves with thoughts of light at the end of the tunnel, and excuse the horrible things they do because of it. But human society is crippled beyond repair, and humanity itself is slowly going extinct. And the environment is a testament to how we as a species don't matter in the grand scheme of things, and that nature will simply go on just as it has been for billions of years in our absence.

Like I said, bleak.
 

irishdude

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the way i look at it is there's no real happy ending for anyone in the long run, i hope they make another game set in this world but does'not have anything to do with the characters, looking forward to hearing more info or details on the single player dlc there doing
 

Savagezion

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cjspyres said:
I believe it goes without saying that there will be spoilers ahead.

So, I literally just finished The Last of Us as I type this. As the credits rolled, I wondered, "How do I feel about this decision"?

I don't think a games ending has ever left me feeling so conflicted, and that is what I'd like to discuss. How do you feel about what Joel did in the end? Do you believe he was selfish in his actions, or was he only doing what he thought was right?

In my opinion, I believe that a part of Joel just snapped. He couldn't take anymore loss or pain, so he decided to fight in order to keep the one thing keeping him alive and sane. I believe his choice is completely selfish, and honestly, a bit scary. He knows that saving her was wrong, and possibly, has convinced himself that it happened the way he said. He's made it clear that he will never give up or lose the girl.

So what do you fellow Escapists think? Do you believe it's not as dark as I've imagined, or perhaps even darker? Are you satisfied with this ending?

As for me, I am fully happy with the ending. I'm glad that they didn't end it a predictable note, and it really adds weight to what he says about finding a reason to survive. Ellie is his reason, and he will protect her whether it is right or not.
One thing I noticed towards the end was that Joel and humanity as a whole shared many characteristics to the point where Joel felt like an embodiment of humanity. I wouldn't say this makes him an actual representative for all humankind as it is apparent he isn't. I mean humanity and Joel share almost every characteristic. The desperation for a reason to go on, a me vs. the world approach to every situation, trying to forget their past due to where it has lead them as well as how unexpected and unforgiving it was, etc.
Because of this saving Joel's humanity vs. saving humanity's chances is like a coin toss for me. Humans are adapting to the environment as has been shown with Ellie's immunity and Marlene's mention of others like her. How common it is, is unknown. It is the eternal debate of good of the many vs. the good of the few. Usually people say the good of the many is the right choice but gloss over the doom you then bestow on the few.

I think what I like most about it is that Joel accidentally invested to much in his job. When they kept reminding him of Sara towards the end I think he swapped out the role of guardian with the role of parent by mistake. You'll notice that after Tommy shows the photo, Joel starts to open up quite a bit more to Ellie. He starts to see her as an innocent instead of a burden. He actually wants whats best for her, unable to see her be a disposable chance at hope for fireflies/humanity. (Which he has an apparent distaste for) Joel clearly thinks the fireflies are in the business of false hope and to sacrifice Ellie for false hope is unacceptable for him. Not to mention I think by attaching many of his undealt with issues with Sara to Ellie, Ellie's death would break him down even further. He had already lost Tess for this mission and now having invested so much in Ellie, he was at the point of no return. FOr him, it would have all been for nothing and he would have sacrificed everything for it. Losing Ellie would make him either go the way of Bill and be bat-shit crazy unable to form a relationship with anyone again or go the way of Henry and blow his brains out.

Ragsnstitches said:
I'm not too sure about Ellie being willing to do it. There was a whole mess of ambiguity in that section. She was unconscious since the incident in the tunnel and only wakes up in the car. There was no consent. That's a shit start. Would ellie have accepted her fate? She could have...
This was going through my mind all through the hospital scene. The lack of actually hearing Ellie and not Marlene saying this was what Ellie wanted. The whole ambiguity was done wonderfully. First with her whole droopy demeanor scene and the giraffes. That's when you really see Joel step outside himself as well. He had small moments before that but that was the first time you seen him actually try to influence Ellie's decision making process. (Not override it) However, the ending she clarified that she knew the vaccine would kill her. The story about her and her friends all getting bitten together and they all died and that she didn't get to die with them. Her history of basically not having parents anymore early on in the game. She came off as letting Joel know she was OK with that. Her biggest fear was even being alone because she can't get infected but humanity can. The sacrifice makes perfect sense. Even when Joel lies to her, her eyes seem to tear up. This could be due to betrayal but it also could be due to her feeling a sense of belonging too. It is hard to pin it down. I think she was OK with either decision - as the story enforces that she is OK with the sacrifice but her accepting Joel words knowing it was a lie means she is OK with not going through with the sacrifice and Joel apparently felt it improtant enough to lie to her.
Ellie is a smart girl and even assuming Marlene lied to her and said it was a simple surgery, why would they sedate her for the surgery (she woke up from being sedated in a hospital gown which isn't hard to put two and two together) and then decide "meh, let's not worry about a cure". I think Ellie is much smarter than that. However, I also believe Marlene was completely honest with her as it seems in Marlene's nature. However, even if she wasn't the truth is pretty evident. Thus, I take it that Ellie knows what happened at the hospital in truth if not the details. She is however, willing to accept Joel's lie as truth because she has shown to trust his judgement - and she also can let go of that fear of being alone a bit due to it. It is sort of a professed commitment from Joel in the shape of a lie about something else.

That's my take on it anyways.
 

nexus

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I'm gonna go with the "Infection Theory". Joel was infected during the beginning of the game, when he moves a dead clicker from a door handle, and spores burst into his unprotected face. He slowly loses awareness and imagines the rest of his "journey" as he lies dying; eventually turning into a feral infected himself.

(Just kidding... but really, that spore scene made me cringe.. want to know if it was deliberate or an oversight.)
 

EHKOS

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While I'm glad it wasn't predictable, I was mashing my D-pad the whole time I was behind Joel in the end. I was so hoping I could pull out a gun, shoot him in the back and return to the hospital. It was totally selfish, and I can see him being mentally broken down after his daughter, but come on. That was the cure for ALL of mankind, and Ellie wanted to do it. I just finished it too, and I'm a bit disappointed. He even killed the head surgeon, so if they ever found another mutation they might not have to knowledge or skill to pull it off anymore. I left the game seeing Joel as a villain. I tried to give up, or let the surgeon kill me, but it wasn't a "choice" ending.

As for the gameplay, I think it could have been better off as a movie. It was pretty boring and repetitive, which is sad seeing how the game is about twelve hours long FOR ONCE. Then again, it had a large amount of zombie cliches...


Well, fuck you Joel, if you can make up things then I can too. Ellie shot him in the back, and went back to the hospital, since there wasn't anyone left alive who could perform the operation, she set out on her own to survive in the world.

There. Also she shot him in the spine and left him and he got eaten by a bear.

On the developer side I'm a bit disappointed in their edicate. Sanzaru didn't even have the ties with the others that Sucker Punch did, and they still added in easter egbgs for ND and Insomniac. Naughty Dog just kind of put a Jak and Daxter one in and called it a day.

HippySteve said:
What I loved about The Last of Us was that it was never about saving the world, it was about the human condition and Joel recovering his inner humanity, that the loss of Tess and Sarah and the brutal, unforgiving world of post-apocalyptic black market trading in a disheveled quarantine zone had robbed him of. It was about Ellie finding someone who wouldn't abandon her, about her softening as well and becoming human.
TL;DR
The Last of Us was not about saving the world, The Last of Us was about being human, even when the world wants nothing to do with it.
Huh, I didn't think of it like that. That's a good take.
 

Ragsnstitches

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Savagezion said:
That's my take on it anyways.
That's the wonderful thing about this story. It has a lot of leeway in regards to what people read into it, but the diversity of possible outcomes doesn't diminish its impact.

Marlene wouldn't lie, your right... it isn't in her nature. But we know that Marlene didn't know about the specifics of the surgery until Ellie arrived at the base. Maybe, like joel, she knew it wouldn't be simple. The truth was harsh, possibly harsher then she expected. But she accepted it... for, in my opinion, reasons of fear that I outlined above. Its why she seems so conflicted in her audio recordings. She's feeling guilt and trying to rationalise it to spare herself of that guilt.

Whats more, we know ellie was out of it from incident up until after Joels "rescue". We don't know specifically that Ellie was aware of the costs, but like Joel and Marlene, it likely crossed her mind.

At the end, for me, the lack of her consent tore away any sympathy I had for the Fireflies plight. Like marlene, they wanted to avoid the feeling of guilt, so they kept her choice in the matter out of it and treated her like one of the infected corpses they had dealt with before.

In my mind, Joels choice, though selfish and brutal, was a fairer choice for ellie. If ellie wants to be the sacrificial lamb she can be... firefly isn't extinct, just badly gimped as a result of Joels rampage. But whats important is that she can choose. That might be the harsher reality, given the circumstances, but again... its fair.
 

Lovely Mixture

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I don't think Joel's actions were selfish, they were humane. They may have been driven by selfish reasons, but they were based in human emotion.

Here were my thoughts from another thread

____

Considering how he lost Sara to the exact same "for the greater good" logic, he wasn't going to let it happen again.
Also:
-Marlene and Fireflies are just as bad the government
-Did they actually have a chance at making a cure with one specimen?
-More of a stretch, but would the cure even make a difference at this stage of the world? After the fungus has caused so much damage?
_________

Now. Here's the thing, me and everyone keep calling it a "cure." But this is wrong. It's not a cure, it's a vaccine. It's going to prevent further infected, it's not going to change back those infected.
 

FoOd77

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I am A-OK with what Joel did, because really what good would a vaccine be anymore? Even thinking way down the road, how the hell would the Fireflies, who are just barely hanging on themselves, be able to distribute enough of a vaccine to make a real difference? And that's considering they could even make a working vaccine, which I doubt.

In the end I think Joel did the right thing, because he understood what the Fireflies really were, he saw that behind all their optimism and 'Plucky Freedom Fighter' facade they were just as brutal and immoral as the world which created them. They were going to sacrifice a 14 year old girl, to try and make a vaccine that might not even work, so they can possibly distribute it to a savage world that is far beyond saving. Moreover I think it was one of Marlene's recording where she mentioned that the Fireflies were just going to straight up murder Joel for his trouble once the job was done, until she talked them out of it. Those are not 'good guys'

It doesn't matter why Joel did it, doing the right thing for selfish reasons is still doing the right thing.