The last thing we watched, cartoon/animu edition

TheMysteriousGX

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Delicious in Dungeon episode 4 Stewed Cabbage/Orcs and episode 5 Snacks/Sorbet. We got golem farming, we have cute orc children, we have setting details and a second party to follow, we have ghost iced cream, and as always we have masterfully adapted gags fully realizing the difference between manga and animation

Bang Brave Bag Bravern continues to be fun. There's a hilarious feral alien girl in the mix who gets out of a waterboarding by drinking the water. Lotta concerning things happening in the background that the characters aren't really noticing, hope they pay off
 

Dirty Hipsters

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I finished Invincible Season 2. Unless that's just the first half, because there's only four episodes. Really great season though, if it's the full thing.
It's just the first half. The rest of Season 2 is supposed to be out in March. It was apparently originally planned to be released in January but got pushed back.
 
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PsychedelicDiamond

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Hazbin Hotel, Season 1 (2024)

Animated series based on a pilot released in 2019 that was subsequently picked up by A24 and distributed by Amazon. Although not without practically its entire voice cast being replaced in the meantime, mostly not for the better, but they did bring in Keith David so at least there's an upside to it.

HH presents an 8 episode animated adult comedy about Charlie Morningstar, the pathologically optimistic daughter of the devil, and some of her buddies, opening a hotel in hell to help its denizens redeem themselves and spare them from the wrath of heaven which periodically sends its army to cull them.

The primary selling point (and by extension, what will probably render it insufferable to a lot people) of Hazbin Hotel is that it feels a lot like a late 00's DeviantArt webcomic. The entire vibe of it is this mall goth chimera of 90's Tim Burton, Disney Renaissance, Jhonen Vasquez cartoons, Scene Kid culture, Furry Fandom, a touch of anime and a whole lot of "I'm fourteen, live in a suburb and think this passes as provocative", which it doesn't, but it's kind of quaint that it thinks it does... well, you get the idea.

There's something charmingly innocent about it, which, looking at it as a cynical middle aged man, I find kind of disarming. It really puts you in the mindset of, like, a 16 year old girl in 2011 who just saw the newest Disney Princess movie and thought "I'm gonna make something like this, but it's gonna be set in HELL and it'll look like NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS crossed with INVADER ZIM and the characters are gonna SWEAR and HAVE SEX and be GAY and the angels are gonna be the BAD GUYS" and... I dunno, I'm not enough of a prick to try to critically eviscerate something like that. If I got to make a TV show out the sort of stuff I wrote as an angsty teenager I'd commit to it too.

From the premise you'd assume that most of the show would be about those different characters staying at the hotel having comedic misadventures as they try to become better people but there's surprisingly not that much of that. There's more plot to it than you'd expect, so a good deal of it is devoted to world building and setting up characters that'll presumably play bigger roles in later seasons and playing out a seasonal arc that culminates in a battle between heaven and hell, complete with anime fight scenes, obviously... The issue might be that the season is only 8 episodes long, so having it both ways with both a season long story arc and goofy disconnected character driven episodes inbetween might not have been an option but I feel like it would have benefitted from some of those. It's main asset are probably its characters.

Whether these character are any good... eeh. The main cast is decently likeable and just three dimensional enough for what it is. The cheerful, overly optimistic princess, her supportive straight woman girlfriend, the smarmy pervert, the shady trickster, the gruff barkeep voiced by Keith David, they're fine. They get less interesting the farther you get away from the main characters and at one point the devil shows up voiced by some guy doing an H. Jon Benjamin impression and I felt they were starting to run out of ideas.

There's a lot of musical numbers in this. Are they any good? Eeh... They range from okay to decent, I guess. You asked me to hum any of them right now, I wouldn't be able to. But it's nice to see them being such a big part of an adult animated comedy. Now, whether this comedy is particularly funny? Eeh... I laughed exactly once. At a really good line delivery. Don't take that too harshly though, it's hard to make me laugh.

It was fine. I take it over, like, season 69 of Family Guy or season 420 of The Simpsons or any more fucking Rick and Morty. It's got its own thing going on with a sorta fresh style and a main cast that's reasonably compelling and a setting that has a decent bit of mileage left in it. If they go for longer seasons in the future, this could come together nicely.
 
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It was fine. I take it over, like, season 69 of Family Guy or season 420 of The Simpsons or any more fucking Rick and Morty. It's got its own thing going on with a sorta fresh style and a main cast that's reasonably compelling and a setting that has a decent bit of mileage left in it. If they go for longer seasons in the future, this could come together nicely.
You've seen Helluva Boss by any chance? I haven't seen either shows, outside of Hazbin's 2019 Pilot. I do know people who worked on HB worked on HH as well. Agreed though. I'll watch any new or unique show than another season of FG, Simpsons, Futurama, and especially another fucking Rick and Morty.

"I'm gonna make something like this, but it's gonna be set in HELL and it'll look like NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS crossed with INVADER ZIM
Funny enough, the voice actor for Zim is a major supporting character in Helluva Boss. He uses his Zim voice and everything. He plays an imp called Moxxie.

the angels are gonna be the BAD GUYS"
Even before 2011, there's plenty of games or media that were already doing that. Mainly Japanese, but plenty of the West had already gotten into the whole Angels are evil/very dark grey and hell is either decent, not much better, or barely worse than heaven.
 
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PsychedelicDiamond

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You've seen Helluva Boss by any chance? I haven't seen either shows, outside of Hazbin's 2019 Pilot. I do know people who worked on HB worked on HH as well. Agreed though. I'll watch any new or unique show than another season of FG, Simpsons, Futurama, and especially another fucking Rick and Morty.


Funny enough, the voice actor for Zim is a major supporting character in Helluva Boss. He uses his Zim voice and everything. He plays an imp called Moxxie.
Nah, I'm aware of it and I know it's been going on for a while but I haven't seen it. Might be checking it out, now that I'm done with HH.

Even before 2011, there plenty of games or media already doing that. Mainly Japanese, but plenty of the West had already gotten into the whole Angels are evil/very dark grey and hell is either decent, not much better, or barely worse than heaven.
True, I mean, Evangelion started off being about fighting off angels. It's actually kind of interesting. Japanese media really likes to take the gnostic interpretation of Christianity. Which interprets physical reality as sort of a prison and its creator, that gnostics call the demiurge, as the warden keeping human souls away from unity with the real god.

If I had to guess why Japanese media likes to work with that interpretation is because it alligns with some buddhist beliefs.
 
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Casual Shinji

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True, I mean, Evangelion started off being about fighting off angels. It's actually kind of interesting. Japanese media really likes to take the gnostic interpretation of Christianity. Which interprets physical reality as sort of a prison and its creator, that gnostics call the demiurge, as the warden keeping human souls away from unity with the real god.

If I had to guess why Japanese media likes to work with that interpretation is because it alligns with some buddhist beliefs.
A simpler explanation though might be that Japan as a culture has no ties to the Christian religion whatsoever, so there's no controversy in them taking it apart and using what they like for storytelling purposes. Final Fantasy used to have Christian iconography in games made for children, but in the West that was a huge no-no.
 
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Johnny Novgorod

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A simpler explanation though might be that Japan as a culture has no ties to the Christian religion whatsoever, so there's no controversy in them taking it apart and using what they like for storytelling purposes. Final Fantasy used to have Christian iconography in games made for children, but in the West that was a huge no-no.
I always thought they just found Christian imagery exotic and/or amusing enough. Reverse weeaboo-ism.
 
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A simpler explanation though might be that Japan as a culture has no ties to the Christian religion whatsoever, so there's no controversy in them taking it apart and using what they like for storytelling purposes. Final Fantasy used to have Christian iconography in games made for children, but in the West that was a huge no-no.
I always thought they just found Christian imagery exotic and/or amusing enough. Reverse weeaboo-ism.
Right you are @Johnny Novgorod. How most of Japan sees Christian iconography/imagery, is the equivalent of how we see and use Greek or Norse mythos.

Bennett breaks down further in this time stamp.

 
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Casual Shinji

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I always thought they just found Christian imagery exotic and/or amusing enough. Reverse weeaboo-ism.
Pretty much I guess. Christianity is filled with some insane wacky shit, but as Westerners we're kinda taught the stiff and dry version of it - The Big Three typically follow a 'no fun allowed' religious practice. But since Japan doesn't have the same cultural reverence for it they look at it the same way we do with like Egyptian mythology.
 

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Fascinating how Frieren, a show about a character who looks like a child and is perhaps the least horny fantasy anime I have seen in a really long time, has tons of fanart with extra attention given to her lady bits. I don't even go looking for this stuff, it just pops up on my feed, and I am genuinely surprised they seem to be received favorably by most peeps.
Well, i like the anime and might even have looked at some supplementary sites but weirdly i don't get any such fanart recommendation, so can't really agree on their ubiquity.
But recommendation algorithms can pick up the weirdest nonsense.
 
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Bartholen

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So I checked out the first episode of Delicious in Dungeon out of curiosity, and I hope someone who's more into the series can help me. Because I was left kind of puzzled as to what I was supposed to get out of it. It mostly felt like being exposited to by an overly eager DM who's too in love with very specific details of their worldbuilding. I know it's just the first episode, but what is this series going for? If it's going for comedy, it wasn't really that funny to me. I didn't find the characters very interesting or engaging, because we know next to nothing about them. Same goes for the world. Everything just seems to be there because it's there. Is this stuff that's revealed and elaborated on piecemeal, or is the setting just "generic fantasy world number eighty billion"? Will there be more of a plot besides "save the person who needs to be saved"?
 

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So I checked out the first episode of Delicious in Dungeon out of curiosity, and I hope someone who's more into the series can help me. Because I was left kind of puzzled as to what I was supposed to get out of it. It mostly felt like being exposited to by an overly eager DM who's too in love with very specific details of their worldbuilding. I know it's just the first episode, but what is this series going for? If it's going for comedy, it wasn't really that funny to me. I didn't find the characters very interesting or engaging, because we know next to nothing about them. Same goes for the world. Everything just seems to be there because it's there. Is this stuff that's revealed and elaborated on piecemeal, or is the setting just "generic fantasy world number eighty billion"? Will there be more of a plot besides "save the person who needs to be saved"?
I don't know much as I have not touched it, but @TheMysteriousGX can help you out. He's a fan of the series.
 

Piscian

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So I checked out the first episode of Delicious in Dungeon out of curiosity, and I hope someone who's more into the series can help me. Because I was left kind of puzzled as to what I was supposed to get out of it. It mostly felt like being exposited to by an overly eager DM who's too in love with very specific details of their worldbuilding. I know it's just the first episode, but what is this series going for? If it's going for comedy, it wasn't really that funny to me. I didn't find the characters very interesting or engaging, because we know next to nothing about them. Same goes for the world. Everything just seems to be there because it's there. Is this stuff that's revealed and elaborated on piecemeal, or is the setting just "generic fantasy world number eighty billion"? Will there be more of a plot besides "save the person who needs to be saved"?
I watched 3 episodes before being over it. I did think it was mildly charming but its another "fuck about" anime where its just kind of a one note idea with no endgame that'll likely only go on until the manga author loses interest.

I think my biggest disappointment in it, is that theres no real world application. They spend an exhausting amount of time talking about monster food recipes but it only really works within the context of the anime. So literally the only take away from the show is mild humor at the elf characters distain for eating monsters. Its funny a couple times, but it gets pretty tiresome quickly.
 
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Bartholen

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I watched 3 episodes before being over it. I did think it was mildly charming but its another "fuck about" anime where its just kind of a one note idea with no endgame that'll likely only go on until the manga author loses interest.

I think my biggest disappointment in it, is that theres no real world application. They spend an exhausting amount of time talking about monster food recipes but it only really works within the context of the anime. So literally the only take away from the show is mild humor at the elf characters distain for eating monsters. Its funny a couple times, but it gets pretty tiresome quickly.
I think my biggest issue with it was how it seemed to expect the audience to fill in most of the gaps of the world. Why eating monsters is supposed to be gross, how turning to it is supposed to mark some kind of drastic switch in approach, why the characters are willing to risk life and limb to venture through this dungeon, what the characters' backstory is, all of that is left completely blank. If they'd spent even half the episode laying out some kind of backstory for the main character and contextualizing the world and dynamics I'd probably have been way more engaged. Instead it's handwaved with quite literal video game logic and we're just expected to go along with it.

And you're exactly right about the real world application thing.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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So I checked out the first episode of Delicious in Dungeon out of curiosity, and I hope someone who's more into the series can help me. Because I was left kind of puzzled as to what I was supposed to get out of it. It mostly felt like being exposited to by an overly eager DM who's too in love with very specific details of their worldbuilding. I know it's just the first episode, but what is this series going for? If it's going for comedy, it wasn't really that funny to me. I didn't find the characters very interesting or engaging, because we know next to nothing about them. Same goes for the world. Everything just seems to be there because it's there. Is this stuff that's revealed and elaborated on piecemeal, or is the setting just "generic fantasy world number eighty billion"? Will there be more of a plot besides "save the person who needs to be saved"?
It's a story about the cost of life. The first bit is character work and world building, which later chapters build on to a massive degree. I mean, naturally, you don't know much about the characters, you just met them. It's not an action series, though when the action is there it's well done, and it's not a shonen series, so a lot of the character work is subtle in the way that you can look back on it and go "oh, shit, that's what that meant", but we haven't hit that part yet, and we won't hit a fair bit of it for a while. Like, we haven't found out that Senshi's pot is made of adamant, much less what that actually means. Our heroes will likely track down and get a rematch with the dragon around episode 13

I watched 3 episodes before being over it. I did think it was mildly charming but its another "fuck about" anime where its just kind of a one note idea with no endgame that'll likely only go on until the manga author loses interest.
Delicious in Dungeon is a fully plotted story with a beginning, middle, and end, composing of 14 volumes of manga. If Studio Trigger keeps the pace they are going right now, we are looking at roughly 50 episodes of anime

I think my biggest issue with it was how it seemed to expect the audience to fill in most of the gaps of the world. Why eating monsters is supposed to be gross, how turning to it is supposed to mark some kind of drastic switch in approach,
The literal first bite a character in the show takes of monster makes them vomit
why the characters are willing to risk life and limb to venture through this dungeon,
Money and [redacted], explained later
what the characters' backstory is, all of that is left completely blank. If they'd spent even half the episode laying out some kind of backstory for the main character and contextualizing the world and dynamics I'd probably have been way more engaged. Instead it's handwaved with quite literal video game logic and we're just expected to go along with it.
There are logical explanations for why near-surface level monsters tend to be weaker than monsters on lower levels, and why you can only resurrect people in a dungeon, but only with a nearly intact body. But the main characters do not know them. Yet.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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The shit really starts hitting the fan when the dungeon delving squad of elf convicts called the Canaries show up, but they're currently on a boat.
IMG_3394.jpeg

Speaking of, Episode 6: Court Cuisine/Salt Boil. The episode starts off with the team, hungry after only eating snacks and sorbet earlier in the day, finding a dining hall full of haunted pictures. There is no dinner to be found there, unless you want to live inside a painting
Laios decided to Mario 64 into said pictures with a rope around his waist as an experiment to find out if they can eat picture food. He's present for the rendering of Prince Dergal being born (the old king who bursts into flame at the start of the first episode), but has to leave because of vibes. Next he tries a different banquet picture, but is interrupted when the king is killed by poison, and the food he tries to bring back disappears when he leaves the painting. Lastly he tries a coronation banquet, where he finally eats his fill before being noticed by the Court Elf, who remembers him being there at the prince's birth and when the old king was assassinated. after being pulled out, Laios finds himself hungry, because painting food stops being substantial when you leave the painting
Then, Chilchuck reminisces about previous deadly encounters with mimics after seeing one in an adjoining room. He proceeds to have a no good, very bad night, and we find out that Chilchuck is a spry, young, 29 year old (Half Foots and Tall Men are Short Lived races, with a life expectancy of 50 and 60 years respectively, while Elves and Dwarves are Long Lived races at 400 and 200)
 

Bartholen

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The literal first bite a character in the show takes of monster makes them vomit
Yes, but there's also apparently an entire cookbook specifically about how to make food out of monsters, and the party just happens upon a dude who's spent 10 years studying dungeon cooking. So it smacks more than a bit of inconsistency. You have to lay a bit more groundwork than a few throwaway lines and moments for the characters to feel special. You could show throwaway characters poisoning themselves from not cooking the food properly, you could establish some cooking techniques and/or ingredients being difficult or rare and that's why monster cooking is uncommon, you could establish that everyone's so blinded by their lust for gold that they just go the easy route when it comes to provisions, you could show the characters struggling with the cooking at first etc. Them doing it so effortlessly from the word go just leaves me thinking "why isn't everyone doing this?"
 

Bob_McMillan

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Yes, but there's also apparently an entire cookbook specifically about how to make food out of monsters, and the party just happens upon a dude who's spent 10 years studying dungeon cooking. So it smacks more than a bit of inconsistency. You have to lay a bit more groundwork than a few throwaway lines and moments for the characters to feel special. You could show throwaway characters poisoning themselves from not cooking the food properly, you could establish some cooking techniques and/or ingredients being difficult or rare and that's why monster cooking is uncommon, you could establish that everyone's so blinded by their lust for gold that they just go the easy route when it comes to provisions, you could show the characters struggling with the cooking at first etc. Them doing it so effortlessly from the word go just leaves me thinking "why isn't everyone doing this?"
Isn't the cookbook the exact reason why no one bothers eating monsters? It tells you how to cook monsters, not how to make them taste good/passable. Clearly the cookbook was created during the dungeon's early days when they were still exploring it for the first time, but now the supply lines are established. You don't need to survive through hunting and gathering. There was no reason for them to advance monster cooking, besides the freaks of the world like the knight and dwarf.

To me a better question is, given that the dungeon has clearly been exploited to hell, why aren't dungeon delicacies being exploited more? The characters seem to think the food is fucking amazing, so why aren't monsters being farmed for their succulent meats? I guess monster food isn't exactly leaps and bounds better than regular food. But even then, for sure the rich and powerful would get a kick out of eating some exotic monster meat.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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1) This is far from the only dungeon in the world, they actually crop up fairly regularly for plot related reasons. This particular dungeon has only been known for 6 years. They tend to have the same effect as gold rushes or oil field booms: early on, the upper levels are literally coated in gold (Laios and Falin initially found work as bodyguards for gold stripping parties, seen in the Living Armor episode), but as the economies mature, the easy money dries up and parties have to delve deeper and deeper to keep finding good quality hauls (Kabru's party being so large is an outlier due to smaller individual profits, and smaller parties tend to have more people go missing as shown in Snake/Sorbet)
To me a better question is, given that the dungeon has clearly been exploited to hell, why aren't dungeon delicacies being exploited more? The characters seem to think the food is fucking amazing, so why aren't monsters being farmed for their succulent meats? I guess monster food isn't exactly leaps and bounds better than regular food. But even then, for sure the rich and powerful would get a kick out of eating some exotic monster meat.
2) Monster farming *is* actually a thing, but is difficult logistically. Chilchuck has eaten Treasure Insects before, but near-surface insects are far less tasty than even 3rd level insects (again in Snack/Sorbet), and are apparently even tastier further down. Monsters and Dungeons are also inherently magical, meaning you can't just, like, farm barometz's on the surface as they'd just up and die, for largely the same plot related reasons that you can't resurrect people outside of a dungeon, but as shown in episode two, dungeon farmed resources like mandrakes are in great demand with a brisk trade

3) For plot reasons this dungeon is less tamed than more mature dungeons elsewhere in the world. Mostly because of its newness and Old King Dergal proclaiming that anybody who defeats the Mad Sorcerer gets to be the ruler of the dungeon in the first episode.
You could show throwaway characters poisoning themselves from not cooking the food properly, you could establish some cooking techniques and/or ingredients being difficult or rare and that's why monster cooking is uncommon, you could establish that everyone's so blinded by their lust for gold that they just go the easy route when it comes to provisions, you could show the characters struggling with the cooking at first etc. Them doing it so effortlessly from the word go just leaves me thinking "why isn't everyone doing this?"
All of this *is* done, as shown by Laios following a book on the subject and immediately getting poisoned. Senshi being an expert student of monster cooking after living for a decade in a dungeon that's been publicly known about that for about half that time is a question you *should* be asking, because you've stumbled on to a mystery, not a plot hole or convenient story contrivance. There aren't very many plot holes in Delicious in Dungeon.