The Long and Short of RPGs

[Snaggly Pete]

I thought I was the only one that loved RPGs, but never finished them! We should form a support group.

At any rate, I eventually came up with a solution--I now pretend that I'm actually in the RPG game world and I focus heavily on the main quest. I no longer try to do every quest, explore every nook and cranny of every area or look in every barrel, closet, etc. I think to myself, "if this were my real life, would I really go around doing all this stuff?" I work in Manhattan and I walk from Grand Central Station to my office in Times Square, but along the way, do I talk to everyone I see, go in every store/bar, or look in every trash can? Of course not. I've come to the conclusion that, for me, RPGs are all about immersion and if I'm trying to do everything and look everywhere, it loses its realness and breaks the immersion. The game becomes a huge task list, instead of a living breathing world.

With this mindset, I'm happy to say that I actually completed the last two RPGs I played (Mass Effect and The Witcher) with no gaps or intervening weeks off playing other games. This is very rare for me.

 

[Somethingsomething]

I'm pretty sure it's not OCD, but ADD that you have, Susan. Perhaps you should stick with Tetris?

 

[Susan Arendt]

There comes a time in most RPGs (or Action/Adventure games, for that matter) where the repetition in gameplay elements outweighs my interest in the storyline. I have a good tolerance for repetition, but I also have a really good memory, so once I decide to put it down I'm almost guaranteed never to return to the game.

 

[Kross]

I love strategy guides. They tell me where the important stuff is so I don't have to search everywhere for it. Most of the RPGs I've beaten were with the help of some form of walkthrough.

Not because the game was especially hard, but because the walkthrough told me where the important stuff was and I could focus on the main storyline.

I didn't realize that's what drew me to walkthroughs until now, as I never really thought about it. Neat!

 

[Execudork]

I have a similar problem, but it's not limited to RPGs. I rarely finish any game of any genre, usually because the difficulty curve rises faster than my skills. To beat, for example, Burnout 2 would require me to grind as a player for hours and hours of easier races before tackling those extra-hard cops-vs-speeders levels.

I'll make the coffee at the support group.

---

I thought there are a lot of parallels between this Long / Short RPG idea and some of the industry trends that Ray Huling was talking about in his September 9 article "Beat Your Game to Death". Ray talks about how the really hard-core players of games like Ninja Gaiden II do not play (and buy) games the way game publishers would like: if you spend hundreds of hours on one game, you're not buying other games. So perhaps the industry would be open to variable-length RPGs because they might encourage more people to buy more games more often. I would like them to keep the Long option in there, though, because I also think some games are far too short - the games I have beaten have generally been in the range of 20 hours or less, which leaves me feeling a little bit unsatisfied.

 

[Robyrt]

I am not a hyper-completionist, but I do suffer from restarting because I forgot what the story was about halfway through. Short options for RPGs would totally fix this problem.

Here's what I'd do to fix it: The biggest time-sinks in RPGs are random battles, looking for chests, and watching in-game cutscenes. In Short Mode, there are 50% less random battles (each of which gives 2x the stuff), all cutscenes can be skipped, and any hidden object you missed appears in the next shop.

Think about it... minimal extra effort by developers, although you'd need a lot more testing to make sure things work in both modes. You'd cut a 60-hour epic to 30 hours, while still allowing people to grind, look for chests, watch all the story bits, etc. if they want to.

 

[Susan Arendt]

I am not a hyper-completionist, but I do suffer from restarting because I forgot what the story was about halfway through. Short options for RPGs would totally fix this problem.

Here's what I'd do to fix it: The biggest time-sinks in RPGs are random battles, looking for chests, and watching in-game cutscenes. In Short Mode, there are 50% less random battles (each of which gives 2x the stuff), all cutscenes can be skipped, and any hidden object you missed appears in the next shop.

Think about it... minimal extra effort by developers, although you'd need a lot more testing to make sure things work in both modes. You'd cut a 60-hour epic to 30 hours, while still allowing people to grind, look for chests, watch all the story bits, etc. if they want to.

GENIUS!

 

[TheWickerPopstar]

I think the "grind" aspect of RPGs can get very frustrating (and boring, which is the last thing games should ever be), which is why it's nice that RPGs have evolved, to some degree, beyond requiring out-of-story leveling up and similar activities. It seems that the more recent RPGs that I have played have an experience curve that is very compatible with game progress. The bosses are just challenging enough so that I don't need to go gain five levels before attempting the battle, but at the same time I'm not ready for the endgame dungeon half-way through the game.

Of course, the super secret dungeons where every enemy is like a mini-boss require a bit more dedication, but I'm okay with that.

We have donuts, coffee, who's bringing plates and napkins and such?

 

[shMerker]

One problem I have with RPGs is that when I do play one I usually do end up not finishing it immediately and turn to other things for a while. When I come back I can't remember what it was I was trying to do and I end up wandering around for a couple of hours before finding the plot again or giving up entirely. This wouldn't bother me as much if someone hadn't solved this problem over a decade ago.

In Phantasy Star IV there was a very simple system for keeping the player on track, an option called "talk" that would make the party recap in brief the details of the last major bit of dialogue, pointing the player to the next important thing in the main storyline. It was an ingenious device. When I left the game for a month or so and then came back, I just hit talk and I knew which planet to ship off to and what I would be doing when I got there.

Why haven't I seen this feature or something like it replicated in any game since?

 

[TheWickerPopstar]

Why haven't I seen this feature or something like it replicated in any game since?

Actually, there have been several games with similar features. The more recent Pokemon games have something that recaps your recent activity whenever you turn it on, and I believe Dragon Quest VIII allows you to talk to your team for relevant information.

You're correct though, this is a marvelous feature that should be included more often.

 

[Execudork]

Robyrt's suggestion that missed items appear in the next shop is excellent, in my opinion. I second Susan's "GENIUS" comment.

Does anybody with some experience of game development think this would be a difficult feature to implement? Walkthroughs I've met have included detailed lists of each and every hidden item in the game, is this something that a program can do itself while running?

The "talk" feature also sounds great. But I'd prefer it was skipable, just like the cutscenes. Cutscenes should ALWAYS be skipable, not just in short mode.

 

[Blayze]

It wouldn't be difficult at all. For example, play the Jake Hunter game. Every so often during a case, Jake stops to think over the case (During the third case in the game, you can think at any point) and the game provides you with a multiple-choice exam to see how much of the case you can remember.

 

[Nikita89]

And I used to live thinking I am the only one having the urge to open every single crate that comes in my way! Thanks for prooving the contrary

Brilliant idea with the short and long versions of the games, I'm sure it would have helped me with finishing morrowind and oblivion (yes, horrible, I haven't).

The question is, will any developer actually play along and put up with all the extra work? :/

 

[Lvl 64 Klutz]

I can see RPG developers implementing this system, and then taking lessons from difficulty levels and overdoing it, creating unlockable modes like "Very Long" mode, and "Some people, Staaarted Playing it...." mode

 

[SilentScope001]

Well, while I think RPGs do in fact need to be shorter, it would be far easier if the Games just allowed us to cheat.

I mean think about it. Would the NPCs start shunning you because you got a better advantage? Would the King of the Nation start condemning you for not earning your share? You're saving the world, for crying out loud, you need all the advantages you can get. You aren't harming anyone when you are cheating, after all.

If we can cheat then, there would be no need for some sort of Short Mode, altough I would vastly prefer Short Mode anyway, just in case people hate the idea of cheating. (I'm fine with cheating in SP, not cheating in MP)

 

[Susan Arendt]

Well, while I think RPGs do in fact need to be shorter, it would be far easier if the Games just allowed us to cheat.

I mean think about it. Would the NPCs start shunning you because you got a better advantage? Would the King of the Nation start condemning you for not earning your share? You're saving the world, for crying out loud, you need all the advantages you can get. You aren't harming anyone when you are cheating, after all.

If we can cheat then, there would be no need for some sort of Short Mode, altough I would vastly prefer Short Mode anyway, just in case people hate the idea of cheating. (I'm fine with cheating in SP, not cheating in MP)

No cheating! Can't stand cheating, except in those situations where the game is working against you. Case in point, a crippling bug in Drakan--if you sent your dragon ahead of you at a certain point in the game, you could never get him back again, and you needed him to finish. I only had one save file (my own stupid fault, I know), so I put in a invincibility code and started over. When I got back to where I'd gotten stuck, I turned off invincibility and carried on. I felt that was fair.

 

[shMerker]

The "talk" feature also sounds great. But I'd prefer it was skipable, just like the cutscenes. Cutscenes should ALWAYS be skipable, not just in short mode.

It's totally unintrusive. It sits at the bottom of your menu and never comes up unless you ask for it. Imagine a version of Navi that only speaks when spoken to.

I remember the thing from Pokemon now. I didn't play Diamond/Pearl much, but I can see how that would've been useful if I had gotten deep into it. Thinking it over I suppose the informational sidekicks in more recent Zelda games have served a similar function, also quest logs in MMORPGS. Now that I think about it some RPGs let you replay previous cutscenes, which if the writing is any good should have the same effect.

The basic point is that if I leave a game for an extended period because of that little thing called real life there should be something waiting to give me a reality check if I come back. I think this would benefit the publisher and developer in terms of sales because a gamer is more likely to buy a sequel to a game they've actually finished as opposed to one they gave up on.

I don't enjoy a game as much if I use cheats to get through it. I'm also not a big fan of strategy guides for the same reason. I think if you're changing the rules and getting outside help too much you take the spontaneity out of the game. (If you need to do these things on a regular basis to progress, it's probably because the game is badly designed or over your head)

 

[McDayman]

Wow....I never realized there were so many people with this same affliction. FF's I own = 4,6,7,8,9,10,12,tactics.....FF's I've beaten = 10.

I don't know about having a shorter version of them, it feels like that would take away much of the scale intended by the games creators, dumbing down the sense of accomplishment. Granted it would be optional, but I don't see it appealing to the majority of rpg-ers.

What I'd like to see is less grinding, a different overall objective than saving the world/universe (c'mon! somebody's gotta be able to write one!), and more unique battle systems (Grandia 2 was so far my favorite).

Actually, I'd like to see more put emphasis put into the everyday battles in general. I mean, you get this group of individuals, often who have no initial battle experience at all, and yet they wander through the wilds slaughtering all manner of creatures with no remorse (sometimes a disturbing amount of enjoyment). It would add a lot more involvement to those general adventuring/grinding segments.

 

[shMerker]

McDayman, you speak my language.

 

[Lvl 64 Klutz]

I agree whole heartedly with anti-grinding. What exactly does it prove that I can defeat the same monster 6,000 times such that I earn a new level?