The misinterpretation of evolution

[Aurgelmir]

However, no one ever discusses the baseless attacks on the other side.

I agree with you there, but I think it is because most Atheists don't take offence in being "attacked". Most Atheists are Logical creatures, and choose to debate using logic and science rather than spiritualistic beliefs. This means that there is very little to take offence about.

Also a lot of Atheists don't care what others choose to believe, and therefor have no reason to be offended when "attacked".

I might be projecting my own views on the general atheist public, but that is how I see it when I read religious and evolution debates.

 

[Bradeck]

Yes, until their beliefs infect other people. Religion breeds like fire among large masses of disenfranchised and poorly educated. Take churches like Mormonism, Scientology, Wicca, and Creationism. They are formed by promising great power and rewards to people who cannot think for themselves.

People CHOOSE to remain ignorant of the truth, because it's simpler then admitting the right answer, that you have to do it yourself, no great sky lord is going to do it for you.

Sooner or later, these masses/cults begin to fight each other for the power the other side has. This is usually done politically these days. Then I get involved, because America sends it's Military to go fight the other side's military, because their god is stupid, and we want their oil.

So fine, keep believing that there is ZERO harm in letting ignorance breed. Or you can look at the billions of lives that have been wasted due to people making that same mistake throughout history.

Meanwhile, Atheists are trying to cure diseases with science.

Slightly modified I know, however: All it takes for stupid people to flourish is for rational and logical people to say nothing.

The day we rid the world of religion, the world will unite.

 

[darkstarangel]

OK this has gotten a bit tedious. I cant help but think this has gone on a major tangeant & I got a warning content on something. So in regards to the original question ill just elaborate on this. Science as we know is about testing & observation. After an experiment we write a report on it for future reference & repetition. As you know, considering the structure of a report, you have your abstract, intro, materials & method, results & conclusion (for the most basic report anyway).
The data from the results is the only true thing about the report, you cant argue with the data because thats what the results were. You can question the results if you find a flaw in the materials or methods used which usually although you should back it up repeating the experiment with improvements. This can also lead to other future experiments to refine an area of research, which is why we have the bohr theory you mentined previously.
The conclusion however is where the researcher (or team) has to interpret the data & see if it correlates with the aim. This is where a lot of evolution theories about the data are derived but as iv demonstrated before the data can also be interpreted otherwise, given that you know your stuff. Alot of arguements iv had in the past were simply about one persons interpretations of the data which is kind of redundant & all I can do is simply argue that my interpretation of the data is equally valid which is probably equally redundant, but thats how it is.
Given the original question why people still choose not to believe in evolution, its because they can. But as you said most do so more out of faith rather than knowing scientifically why which ofcourse is no different from why most people accept it either.

Im glad you atleast went out of your way to back up your arguements rather than resorting to just so explanations & sarcastic smart arse replies, one must always be objective in this field. And sorry I never quite got the hang of the quoting system it was a bit embarrassing ill admit.

 

[evilneko]

It's fine by me if people "can" ignore the reality of evolution because a working knowledge of it doesn't affect their daily lives, or because of some stupid idea that it contradicts their holy book or whatever. They can benefit from people who do understand evolution without knowing or even believing in it. After all, cars work whether you think they run on magic or physics.

When they go and start trying to foist their ignorance on others, that's most definitely not fine.

 

[Lyinginbedmon]

This is an old post, but dangit this makes me want to hurt someone.

1) First Law of Thermodynamics. This law (note: not a theory but a scientific law) teaches us that matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed. In other words, an honest scientist will tell you that there is nothing in the observable universe that can explain either the origin of energy or matter. By logical extension, then, matter and energy had to come into being by some force outside the universe.
It's futile to resort to the big bang theory, as some evolutionists are wont to do. They say they have an explanation for the origin of the universe: it began when a ball of incredibly dense matter exploded and flung the universe into existence. Okay, fine. Now: where did that incredibly dense ball of matter come from?

When you refer to the Big Bang, you are looking way beyond the boundaries of evolution. It doesn't care how life or the universe started (abiogenesis and cosmology, respectively, not evolution), it only pertains to how life changes over time.

As for the first law of thermodynamics, you're right, energy cannot be created or destroyed (outside of the quantum level at least), but it only applies in a contained system. Earth, our chief example of life, is not a contained system. Want to know why?

Look into the sky, you may notice the gigantic ball of fire we call Sol, or the Sun. It continually bathes Earth in various forms of radiation, including heat and light, which plants, as we well know, use for photosynthesis to produce useful energy for themselves.

2) Science supports ID more then the Evolution that Darwin theorized. Evolution teaches that the universe is headed toward increasing complexity and order. but the 2nd Law of thermodynamics says that the universe is headed toward increasing randomness and decay. I'll go with the proven law of science this time. . .

Once again, this only applies in a contained system. Earth is not, and evolution has nothing to do with the universe at large, that is cosmology again.

3) Fossils are the only historical evidence that we evolved and Darwin based his theory on the assumption that Transitional Forms would be discovered later, Darwin said there should be innumerable transitional forms, but there are none, period.

You really don't understand fossils at all.

Every single one is a transitional form, evolution doesn't have "this is a human, this is a great ape, this is a brontosaurus", it has "this is a slight deviation from the latest baseline". There's no such thing as "species" (other than in speciation, where two groups can no longer breed together) according to evolution, it's stamp collecting so we can analyse it better.

Also, you're misquoting Darwin, because he went on to state that even without fossils there was a great deal of evidence for evolution, and now there are many leading evolutionary scientists that agree that even if we had no fossil record at all the genetic evidence alone would be proof enough of evolution.

4) "Throughout 150 years of the science of bacteriology, there is no evidence that one species of bacteria has changed into another... Since there is no evidence for species changes between the simplest forms of unicellular life, it is not surprising that there is no evidence for evolution from prokaryotic [i.e., bacterial] to eukaryotic [i.e., plant and animal] cells, let alone throughout the whole array of higher multicellular organisms."
? Alan H. Linton

This is like saying Redwood trees don't fall down because you can't see the one that you planted as a kid fall down.

Everything involved in evolution can be observed, what happens beyond the realm of human observation must be extrapolated and calculated, and from historical evidence the predictions made by evolution (both in fossils and in genetics) are indeed vindicated.

I'm also having trouble finding the source of this Linton person, so for all I know they were a medieval scribe and therefore had no idea at all what they were talking about.

There are also many logical reasons why God exists though I am not expert in that area if thats your cup of tea well. . . Read some C. S. Lewis, he set out as an Atheist to disprove God through logic, why don't you go read what he found? (And remember my disclaimer!)
I recommend Mere Christianity, Miracles and well any others, his Space Trilogy is amazing!

?If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents?the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else?s. But if their thoughts?i.e. of materialism and astronomy?are merely accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It?s like expecting that the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milkjug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset.?

C.S. Lewis (1898?1963), The Business of Heaven

So one person was an atheist, immersed themselves in religious texts, and came out a theist? Irrelevant, many people immerse themselves in science and come out atheist, and many others immerse themselves in religious texts and remain atheist. That he was a popular figure does not make his conversion or any of his writings on the matter relevant. What makes something relevant is the content and substance.

My recommendation to you is talkorigins.org, especially as pertaining to the evidence for evolution.