The moral behind Skyrim's two factions

[electronicgoat]

there is little comparison to the Nazis. keeping in mind it's a medieval fantasy game, you should also keep in mind most medieval societies were racist and persecuted/killed people who didn't believe in their religion.
mainly, when you consider both cons of each faction, the stormcloaks engage in fantastic racism towards every other race in tamriel. once again, this would be common behavior in medieval society.
the empire on the other hand, is openly allied with the thalmor who are dicks and kill people on the spot who are admitted talos-worshippers.
Since the lore around Talos is really shifty, and one of the only books on the subject is basically Thalmor propaganda (The Talos Mistake), if you don't choose to trust that, then it's really your choice on whether to back the racists or the religious persecutors. I personally would rather choose the Empire because at least they attack people's belief and not their race.

 

[Outcast107]

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True, but I'm looking at a bigger picture. I don't just look at Nords fighting alone. Which maybe be the case and they will probably get destroyed. It's a 50/50 thing for them. Same as the Empire. You see, the Empire had TONS of allies and provinces. I'll show you the map of what they own.

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/10/108693/2024805-Oblivion-World-Map.jpg (if someone can give me the thing for pictures it be awesome.)

The Empire had Skyrim, High Rock, Hammerfell, and Cyrodiil. There others but I'm not 100% sure on them. Which was Black Marsh, and Elsweyr. Though after the huge war with the elves the Empire lost Black Marsh (Which exceeded) soon after. Elsweyr was liberated by the Thalmor during the war. And Hammerfell was given away by the Empire to the Thalmor due to the treaty. Which Hammerfell actually fought back against the Thalmor and won. Though the Empire said it wasn't part of them any more so they don't get blame.

Perhaps a united Empire might be better. Though the Empire didn't make any good friends along the way and probably made some enemies(Aka Hammerfell). Though with Skyrim separated then Hammerfell might ask for alliance and go to the elves personally. Though we'll have to wait and see the creators make the game.

Also if I got any information wrong please tell me.

 

[Spygon]

Big Question:
The Empire and the Stormcloaks are basically on even footing at military powers. That's why it's a "bloody civil war" that's basically at a stalemate until you show up.
How come a Stormcloak victory destabilizes the region when an Empire victory would have the same result, namely, having one half of the population resent their current ruler?
How come the Empire is strong enough to attack the elves after the civil war if they struggle to deal with rebels, but rebels strong enough to defeat said empire aren't strong enough to keep the elves out?

Could anyone for the Empire answer that for me?

The Empire are not on even footing with the Stormcloaks.The Empire are stretched they have to have a mass garrison across the aldmeri dominion border as they are iching to start another invasion into the Empire.The Empire still needs even a basic garrison of troops to keep the border with the argonian state safe.

Add this to the Stormcloaks civil war in skyrim their are just not enough forces to send to skyrim to stomp out the rebelion.So i am not sure what the stormcloaks think they are going to do after taking over

 

[Josh123914]

Hmm, haven't decided yet, I have 2 characters planned out, a High Elf and a Breton (both pure magic casters), trouble is, I can't decide which one should side with Stormloak and which Imperial (and I really don't mind which is harder gameplay-wise, I just need a racial reason),
any help?

OT: from what I've heard, Stormcloaks is only a 100% gold choice if you're a Nord, (or not an Imperial) other than that I have no idea.

 

[hubert]

Edit

 

[HK_01]

To the notion that the Empire is not strong enough to even suppress the Stormcloak rebellion:

Firstly, an uprising like that is always hard to put down, even for a powerful army, and the Empire is weakened.

Second, they were really damn close to ending the rebellion right at the beginning of the game. Only Alduin kinda messed it up and allowed Ulfric to escape.

In any case, I go with the Empire, mainly because they seem to be the more likeable guys to me and I think that the Empire has the potential to get back on its feet and destroy the Aldmeri Dominion and once again rule over all of Tamriel (because obvioulsy the next step after defeating the Thalmor is to reintegrate the lost provinces). Especially if my character becomes emperor. And why shouldn't he? He has the dragon blood like the emperors of old, he'd be perfect.

 

[ChocoFace]

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I don't know if anyone told you, but Sovngarde song is about all Nords and their culture, not just the stormcloaks. Gavin Dunne himself said so in the sovngarde song thread. You may now continue to fully enjoy the song.

 

[anthony87]

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Did you really just imply that siding with the native people of Skyrim is comparable to joining an insane genocide causing dictator?
How about you read what you type in the future before you start throwing around words like "moron" yeah?

Doesn't the phrase "Skyrim for the Nords!" ring any bell? Doesn't the phrase "Skyrim has to take it's place in the world's politics!" ring any bell?
Replace "Nord" with "Arier" and "Skyrim" with "Germany" and you have it.
They are even called the STORMcloaks, or don't you know how Hitler's private army was called?

Spoiler

It's SA or Sturmabteilung, Sturm meaning STORM

It's seams really really obvious to me.

.....You could replace ANY word with any other word in order to change it's meaning. I fail to see your point. So because the native(that's an important word right there) people of Skyrim, more specifically the Stormcloaks want the oppressive force to leave their homeland they're Nazis because they have the word "Storm" in their names.

There used to be a show on television called "Storm Hawks" that featured the titular band of characters fighting against an oppressive empire, almost in a rebel-like fashion. Is that show also the same as the Nazis?

Listen, I know you and the other guy I quoted would like to sound all intelligent and whatnot but the second you bring up Hitler or Nazis in a completely unrelated subject, it just invalidates your entire point. Not that it was much of one anyway.

 

[Outcast107]

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Did you really just imply that siding with the native people of Skyrim is comparable to joining an insane genocide causing dictator?
How about you read what you type in the future before you start throwing around words like "moron" yeah?

Doesn't the phrase "Skyrim for the Nords!" ring any bell? Doesn't the phrase "Skyrim has to take it's place in the world's politics!" ring any bell?
Replace "Nord" with "Arier" and "Skyrim" with "Germany" and you have it.
They are even called the STORMcloaks, or don't you know how Hitler's private army was called?

Spoiler

It's SA or Sturmabteilung, Sturm meaning STORM

It's seams really really obvious to me.

.....You could replace ANY word with any other word in order to change it's meaning. I fail to see your point. So because the native(that's an important word right there) people of Skyrim, more specifically the Stormcloaks want the oppressive force to leave their homeland they're Nazis because they have the word "Storm" in their names.

There used to be a show on television called "Storm Hawks" that featured the titular band of characters fighting against an oppressive empire, almost in a rebel-like fashion. Is that show also the same as the Nazis?

Listen, I know you and the other guy I quoted would like to sound all intelligent and whatnot but the second you bring up Hitler or Nazis in a completely unrelated subject, it just invalidates your entire point. Not that it was much of one anyway.

Also the Stormcloaks aren't even killing any of the non-nords. They are letting them live and stay within the cities. Sure, they live in the slums but they are also refugees. So having enough houses for your people and them isn't going to happen.So of course they are going to live in the slums.

Also for the reason why the nords don't like outsiders, is because they are not racist, they are just xenophobic. They feel like the Dunmer can't be trusted

A) They are elves. Look at how America treated Middle-Eastern people after the 9/11 attacks. Very distrust worthy. Not right, but what would you expect after such a attack?
B) The Dunmer are very strong headed people. They refuse to help out with the city and stick to themselves.

Also to all the "nords are gonna kill the non-nords after the war" Go and talk to the one high elf in the market district. She is doing quiet well for herself. Why? because she help out with the city. Made a few friends and no one treats her badly. If the Dunmer do this then they wouldn't get so much distrust.

One more thing, those poor mistreated Dunmer are just as racist as the Nords. After you speak with the first Dunmer you meet at Windhelm, you can hear her say "Damn Lizard" (If you are Argonian). Now you can say she is saying this because of the Argonian attack on her homeland Morrowind. Don't kid yourself, the Dunmer were capturing and enslaving the Argonian long before these events.

 

[nokori3byo]

Why do you think Skyrim will remain alone? Don't forget Hammerfell and all the other countries that are not part of the Empire (there are plenty). Ulric is not an idiot who won't try to establish at least a alliance with Hammerfell who were betrayed by the Empire themselfs (actually, with a look on the map the Empire is pretty screwed when those two forces [main army forces of the Empire nontheless] try to counqer Cyrodil).

It seems to me that both Hammerfell and Skyrim are both stronger in defense than offense. In-game accounts of the Great War make it clear that the Nords lost a lot of men in the defense of Cryodill and the same is liklely true of the Redguards in their own conflict. Forming a united defensive against the Thalmor (in the event of Cyrodill's subjugation) would also result in a VERY long front to protect. It's also worth noting that while Redguards and Nords might manage to repell invasions, they could never summon the manpower to eliminate the Aldmeri threat entirely.

Of course, discussing the conflict in realistic terms verges on fanon as large scale conflicts tend not to play out very realistically in the Elder Scrolls world.

 

[wolf6312]

what?

 

[OtherSideofSky]

They're both kind of annoying, honestly.

Neither one of them was terribly compelling, so I sort of just declared war on every faction in the game.

 

[Etteparg]

I sided with the stormcloaks only to give the empire sometime to gather its forces against the aldmeri dominion. The nords would't have been happy to side with the empire so now they can act as a buffer for the empire. If Ulfric would go after the thalmor and drag that battle out by the time it's over the empire could be strong enough to counquer aldmeri dominion.

 

[MaxwellEdison]

Long posts!

Thanks, I actually realized my (sorta obvious) error soon after I posted that. Still, I think that any army with the folk legend that your character is on its side is capable of holding its ground.

 

[Amaror]

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Did you really just imply that siding with the native people of Skyrim is comparable to joining an insane genocide causing dictator?
How about you read what you type in the future before you start throwing around words like "moron" yeah?

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Well germans are also the NATIVES of Germany, i don't really see your point.
Then again i said it seems obvious to me, doesn't have to be for everybody.
It's just everytime i hear Ulfric say somethink, i think to myself: "Well, heard that before"
And to the other one about that the nords aren't killing non-nords:
Do you really think the nazis rose to power and just started killing jews for giggles or what?
First they're shops were closed and they got their properties removed. Then they got moved to some slums. (Sounds familiar?) Then they were forced to work, and then if they couldn't work anymore they were killed or brought to the concentration camps.

But anywas, i am not saying here that i am right, and you are wrong, but that's just the way i see ulfric and his stormcloaks and that's why i would never ever ever ever join the stormcloaks

 

[Outcast107]

snip

So your more fine with the Empire letting the Thalmor round up Talos worshipers or for that matter anyone, cause they CAN say their captives are Talos worshipers. To be torture and killed. Also about the whole slums thing, they are Refugees. Where else would the people put them?

Plus, their shops are not being close down. They didn't get move to the slums because they started there. They are in the slums because their hardly any room in the city. Plus go talk to the High elf in the marketplace. She doing pretty well for herself for being a non-nord and the same race as the Thalmor.

I'm just saying calling the Stormcloaks Nazis and not saying a word about the crimes the Empire/Thalmor are doing (Which is WAY worst) is annoying. The Thalmor are more close to being Nazis then the Stormcloaks are.

Like I said before, the Nords are a warrior race. Even if you were a Nord and you didn't do anything to help out then you will be called a milk-drinker and getting a lot of shit from the other Nords. Plus wouldn't you feel a bit xenophobic if you heard all the stories of people getting carry off by the Thalmor? As well as hearing the Empire doing nothing to stop it.

Sure, the Empire is buying time to rebuild its army and finish off the Thalmor. If they can, which I highly doubt. Though now its the civilians who are getting the shit end of the deal. Isn't that worst then soldiers dieing? You know, the ones who sign up to fight. Which is why I can't agree with the Empire at all, they should have stay fighting like Hammerfell and Skyrim wanted it to. Though now they sign a treaty and letting the Thalmor pretty much do whatever it want with the civilians who they deem "Talos Worshipers."

 

[Amaror]

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I didn't say the Talmos or the Empire were good.
I just stated why i couldn't choose the Stormcloaks.
I could never ever support the Stormcloaks because everythink about them yells "nazi" in my direction, but that doesn't mean that i completely support the empire.
In the end, i don't like stormcloaks.
I didn't say that i like the empire.

Besides, i don't think that something WAY WORSE than nazis,could exist.