The most cliche of cliches

[twistedmic]

being old isn't an excuse for being lazy. Shakespeare is pretty old, but I don't remember him having magical outs. Not that he's perfect, but a poison that kills any man not working on Juliet because she's a woman didn't happen.

That's a bit of a false equivalency there.Romeo and Juliet didn't have any magic at all, so a magic potion would have been wildly out of sorts no matter how well written. And magic played a key role in Lord of the Rings. All twenty rings were magical artifacts, the Ring Wraiths existed because of magic, Sauron was able to revive/return because of magic, the Army of the Dead was created due to magic, the Elves owned magical artifacts and two of the major players in the novels were magic wielding wizards.
And another thing about the "I am no man!" part of LotR, it seems less like a female empowerment moment and more of an exploiting the 'exact words clause' that is prevalent in magic spells and curses in all sorts of fiction and myth.

 

[Thaluikhain]

the Army of the Dead was created due to magic

Not quite my interpretation of that, thought they were more just ghosts, trapped by their own guilty consciences as anything else.

And another thing about the "I am no man!" part of LotR, it seems less like a female empowerment moment and more of an exploiting the 'exact words clause' that is prevalent in magic spells and curses in all sorts of fiction and myth.

Never read it that way, I thought "no man can kill him" was just a myth, part of his reputation. Again, Aragorn singlehandedly beat up him and some of his hardest mates at Weathertop. If the Witch-King had met Aragorn instead of Eowyn, I'd half have expected the Witch-King to have run away again.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Well you went for a Japanese harem VN for originality, that's your problem right there.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

Well you went for a Japanese harem VN for originality, that's your problem right there.

Hah, you're not wrong on that one. I guess it just burns a bit more cause I was super into it until the twins came into play and made everything feel more bland

 

[Erttheking]

As we're on Tropes, can I say I hate the 'I am no man!' trope.
It's in LoTR, Wonder Woman, and a host of others and its just poor writing. Its a cheap way for the writers to get out of the hole they've dug, using false empowerment like a parasite.

"No man can kill me"
"I am no man!" Stab!
"Oh no, the Woman Clause of the Dark Magic ritual that brought me back to life! Curses! No woman in all of history has ever tried to kill me(totally disregarding the female elf who used magic to kill me)"

Blame Shakespeare for that one. Tolkien thought that the conclusion of the "No man of woman born" plot point in Macbeth was a cop-out.

 

[Agema]

Listening to the music from the visual novel called "If My Heart Had Wings,"

I can't help but feel that the name of that visual novel was forewarning about the high risk of cliche.

 

[twistedmic]

the Army of the Dead was created due to magic

Not quite my interpretation of that, thought they were more just ghosts, trapped by their own guilty consciences as anything else.

.

It was explicitly stated that Isildur cursed them after they failed ti hobor their pledge to help him in the War of the Last Alliance. And Aragorn, Isildur?s heir and descendant was the only one who could absolve them and relase them from the curse.

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

At what point does trying to subvert a cliche become itself a cliche?

 

[Erttheking]

At what point does trying to subvert a cliche become itself a cliche?

The point where everyone recognizes it and becomes sick of it.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

I find myself not preoccupied with something being cliche or not. I just kinda look at whether it's a good example of the story it tries to tell. I'm the kind of person who will play dragon quest 11 and enjoy that it still plays roughly the same as it has for the last 30 years lol.


Kono oozora ni tsubasa wo hirogete is a great VN though. Good taste tc.

 

[BrawlMan]

I find myself not preoccupied with something being cliche or not. I just kinda look at whether it's a good example of the story it tries to tell. I'm the kind of person who will play dragon quest 11 and enjoy that it still plays roughly the same as it has for the last 30 years lol.


Kono oozora ni tsubasa wo hirogete is a great VN though. Good taste tc.

I have a similar mindset, but even I problems with certain shows, movies, or games that are riddled with cliches that are done to death with next to no effort. Acting like they're trying something new.

At what point does trying to subvert a cliche become itself a cliche?

The point where everyone recognizes it and becomes sick of it.

And then people will get sick of everyone playing it straight swinging the pendulum back in the other direction. The cycle never ends.

 

[bluegate]

Well you went for a Japanese harem VN for originality, that's your problem right there.

Aye, can't be surprised to find shit when you're scraping the bottom of the barrel.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Well you went for a Japanese harem VN for originality, that's your problem right there.

Aye, can't be surprised to find shit when you're scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Actually there's tons of originality in most harem VNs, there's just also a crapton of samey ones. Try Fruit of Grisaia and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Listening to the music from the visual novel called "If My Heart Had Wings,"

I can't help but feel that the name of that visual novel was forewarning about the high risk of cliche.

thought the same here too, it did make I wince a little as it sounds like a cheesy power ballad song a person like David Hasselhoff would release in the 80s, or anything by modern day Bon Jovi for that matter

 

[Silvanus]

Never read it that way, I thought "no man can kill him" was just a myth, part of his reputation. Again, Aragorn singlehandedly beat up him and some of his hardest mates at Weathertop. If the Witch-King had met Aragorn instead of Eowyn, I'd half have expected the Witch-King to have run away again.

It was a prophecy made by Glorfindel long before LOTR begins. At the time, Glorfindel is instructing others that it's useless to stand and fight him, and to escape instead.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Well you went for a Japanese harem VN for originality, that's your problem right there.

Aye, can't be surprised to find shit when you're scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Actually there's tons of originality in most harem VNs, there's just also a crapton of samey ones. Try Fruit of Grisaia and you'll see what I mean.

It's pointless trying to explain it to them. They just look at VN's as being nothing more than something to masturbate to for "lonely virgin beta males".

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Well you went for a Japanese harem VN for originality, that's your problem right there.

Aye, can't be surprised to find shit when you're scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Actually there's tons of originality in most harem VNs, there's just also a crapton of samey ones. Try Fruit of Grisaia and you'll see what I mean.

It's pointless trying to explain it to them. They just look at VN's as being nothing more than something to masturbate to for "lonely virgin beta males".

You put it much less nicely than I would.

 

[TrulyBritish]

Never read it that way, I thought "no man can kill him" was just a myth, part of his reputation. Again, Aragorn singlehandedly beat up him and some of his hardest mates at Weathertop. If the Witch-King had met Aragorn instead of Eowyn, I'd half have expected the Witch-King to have run away again.

It was a prophecy made by Glorfindel long before LOTR begins. At the time, Glorfindel is instructing others that it's useless to stand and fight him, and to escape instead.

This.
Plus, while not made explicit in the films (at least I don't think it is), in the book a big factor was Merry stabbing the Witch-King with a blade designed for fighting Wights from the Barrowdowns way back in Fellowship. Merry gips him with the magic sword and Eowyn basically finishes him off.

 

[Dreiko_v1legacy]

Well you went for a Japanese harem VN for originality, that's your problem right there.

Aye, can't be surprised to find shit when you're scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Actually there's tons of originality in most harem VNs, there's just also a crapton of samey ones. Try Fruit of Grisaia and you'll see what I mean.

It's pointless trying to explain it to them. They just look at VN's as being nothing more than something to masturbate to for "lonely virgin beta males".

Meh, that won't stop me lol.

I don't think you can be a beta male for advocating for something you deem worthwhile, in any case. Shying away from doing so, sure, that'd be a beta move.

 

[Squilookle]

Well you went for a Japanese harem VN for originality, that's your problem right there.

Aye, can't be surprised to find shit when you're scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Actually there's tons of originality in most harem VNs, there's just also a crapton of samey ones. Try Fruit of Grisaia and you'll see what I mean.

It's pointless trying to explain it to them. They just look at VN's as being nothing more than something to masturbate to for "lonely virgin beta males".

Meh, that won't stop me lol.

I don't think you can be a beta male for advocating for something you deem worthwhile, in any case. Shying away from doing so, sure, that'd be a beta move.

Hmm yeah dunno about that. A middle aged man gushing about his stamp collection or train set is fine and everything, but it doesn't exactly make you think 'what a dominant stud' etc either.