The Needles: Don't Blame Canada

Logar_Ithme

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Oct 12, 2009
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Amen!

But you have to remember that the US government in not controlled by corporations. Didn't a recent ruling essentially made corporations citizens with rights to politics and all? SCOTUS? I'm being sarcastic here, but I think it's fairly obvious the whole thing is a way to slap Canada by saying : "See? You're not even better than Indonesia! Do it like us and we will reconsider our view." So chauvinistic.

Now we just need to see if Canada will use the report of the CCIA to stand its defence.

On a side note, I am a Quebecer and it's not us who hate you, it's you who hate us. :p
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_bashing
Canada United! :D
 

L9OBL

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Matt_LRR said:
Nalesnik said:
Matt_LRR said:
Shynobee said:
I'm sorry, but the only interesting thing I got out of this is that there is a stereotype the Canadians hate Toronto?

Wtf? I mean, sure the Leafs suck and all, but why Toronto? I'd figure that someplace in Quebec would get the hate...
... because Toronto is as American as a place can be in canada without actually being in America.

-m
Pa-lez, if I took someone that doesn't know anything about borders/sovereignty, they wouldn't be able to tell apart an American city from a Canadian city at all. Our "cultures" are exactly the same. (I'm a Canadian that visits the states regularly btw)
There are so many things wrong with that assertion I don't even know where to start. (Also as a canadian that travels a lot). If you're from the T.Dot, I could understand, but if you're from just about anywhere else in this country, I'm baffeld by your claim.

Most American cities have a significantly different feel from Canadian ones, and the effect is even more prnounced in smaller towns. It's not something I can describe or define per se, but put me in any given town and I could tell you in an instant what side of the border it's on based solely on how it feels.

The comment about canadian and american cultures being "the same" is patently false, and any canadian creative-type would agree. We import a lot of our media - but our *culture* is very distinct.
That significantly different feel is called less pollution. ZING! lol had to sorry i'm asmatic and can't breath in atleast half the american cities cause of smog yet most canadian ones i can breath quite fine in and without my inhaler.
 

Lullabye

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Oct 23, 2008
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Pyromaniac1337 said:
Lullabye said:
Andy_Panthro said:
Nice to see Canada sticking to it's guns.
The closest thing we have to a gun in Canada is a hockey stick painted to look like one.
Unless you're Calgarian.
Too true. i actually saw a cowboy yesterday walking around with a freaking revolver. I mean, it was part of a show but it was a real loaded gun. Couldn't they at least go for a less lethal replica if it's just for entertainment? Dammmit I wanna move.
 

L9OBL

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yeah i know it's about philosiphies but our philosiphies are great for our economics. i'm just sayiing that in the states i wouldn't be able to produce my machinima or it would cost me more than i could afford so ouur laws should stay the same cause it allows businesses to do what they do for significantly less (did you read the whole article? [well the section on tpp]) alot of businesse rely on tpp being legal and canada's philosiphies are to not screw over businesses and not for profit orginizations like me! (well mine i guess)
 

L9OBL

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we dont have our own but we canucks go under the international fair use act!(so technically everyone does) and i would call tpp legal here and illegal there less restrictive but what evs what evs (that and our law enforcement doesn't really care, almost every canadian uses sharing like limewire. lol)
 

CoverYourHead

High Priest of C'Thulhu
Dec 7, 2008
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Irridium said:
darklink259 said:
American here: I am disappointed in my country's copyright laws, to be frank. A lot of them make little sense, and so many are obviously the result of intense lobbying. It's really annoying when business interests matter more to your country than individuals' rights. I'm sure that this happens to an extent in other countries also, but it still ticks me off.
Same here. And the sad part is that most Americans just don't give a damn about this, yet the whole of the U.S. will still be yelled at for it...
It's a shame, isn't it? Our politicians, big businesses, and celebrities make us all look like bullies and jack-asses, such a pain.

I really hope Canada stands up for itself here, you have my support, Canada! I love you!
 

Sightless Wisdom

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Jul 24, 2009
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Matt_LRR said:
You know that canada doesn't actually have a fair use provision in our copyright law, right? That, in fact, our rules in that regard are significantly more restrictive than those in the states?

-m
You know I'm not sure why this post showed up in my inbox as someone quoting me, but I have to point out the Canadian copyright law enforcement is much less strict. I know many people who have pirated many things and have never received so much as an email from their ISP. Where as it's not uncommon to hear of people in the U.S.A who have been fined large sums for the same act.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Jun 17, 2009
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On behalf of Canadians everywhere I'd just like to say that the ESA can kindly go fuck themselves eh? Esp. since your Yankee copyright and IP laws fall somewhere in between fascist and anal buttfuck.
 

BlindMessiah94

The 94th Blind Messiah
Nov 12, 2009
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darklink259 said:
Cain_Zeros said:
Goddamn Yanks just can't handle us being different can they?
I hope you realize that at least some Americans (like me) are actually disturbed by the actions of our country. Canada is definitely in the right, here. The problem is that the US probably won't have any useful copyright reform for a while, as the government is controlled by business. :(
As a Canadian I do realize this and personally I have nothing against "yanks" as the above user mentioned. Every time I have travelled across the border I have been treated with warm welcomes from people I've encountered which is more than I can say for the way a lot of Canadians treat each other here in Vancouver.

Anyhow, my point is anyone, be they Canadian or American, who judges an entire country by the actions of a few ignorant people needs to take a closer look.

OT: It is refreshing to see the Canadian government take a stand and not be led around on a leash by American Policies. How I do miss Trudeau.
 

Booze Zombie

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I've said it before, but I think that they're just upset that the important people in Canada aren't on an American company's pay roll.
That's what it seems like to me, maybe it seems a bit "conspiracy nuttish" but it's truthly what I think.

"We can't exploit Canada! What do we do?!"

"I know! We... insult them!"

"Genius."
 

Matt_LRR

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Nov 30, 2009
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Sightless Wisdom said:
Matt_LRR said:
You know that canada doesn't actually have a fair use provision in our copyright law, right? That, in fact, our rules in that regard are significantly more restrictive than those in the states?

-m


You know I'm not sure why this post showed up in my inbox as someone quoting me, but I have to point out the Canadian copyright law enforcement is much less strict. I know many people who have pirated many things and have never received so much as an email from their ISP. Where as it's not uncommon to hear of people in the U.S.A who have been fined large sums for the same act.
I quoted you by accident, and then edited the post down to the part I was actually trying to quote. Your point regarding enforcement is reasonably accurate.

-m
 

samsonguy920

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stone0042 said:
I just want to comment on the fact that the US team beat the Canadian hockey team by 2 goals. Quite the upset.
Ooooo! Ice Burn!!!

Considering the way the US handles copyright laws these days is straight from the mouths of big business, this doesn't surprise me. There are many cases where big business steps beyond what is covered in copyright law so they can have a bigger piece of the pie, and who cares what the peons who buy (or lease) their product? Other than the peons?
It's nice to see an established organization like the CCIA make a well thought out and mature response to the IIPA. It isn't so nice to see that the ESA feels free to join in the band and say Canada isn't doing enough to protect big business(which is all S301R is about). Sometimes I have to wonder what the ESA's real mission statement is, besides help both developers and purchasers of the entertainment software industry, but then also stab them both in the back.
But as the CCIA so cryptically put it, all the Special 301 Report is really doing is shaking a stick and telling Canada among other countries listed therein to get your act together or there won't be any dessert.
Well Canada is quite capable of making its own dessert as well as going to bed without.
 

samsonguy920

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Matt_LRR said:
You know that canada doesn't actually have a fair use provision in our copyright law, right? That, in fact, our rules in that regard are significantly more restrictive than those in the states?

-m
Considering organizations like the Music Recording Industry, MPAA(movie industry), and software industry among others based out of the US completely ignore fair use as well as teach their customers to believe that fair use doesn't exist, I'd say there probably isn't much difference in restriction. Not as long as civil courts continue to support the industries in lawsuits.
In all likelyhood copyright laws in Canada are probably more respected, but not as bloodthirsty.
 

Matt_LRR

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L9OBL said:
we dont have our own but we canucks go under the international fair use act!(so technically everyone does) and i would call tpp legal here and illegal there less restrictive but what evs what evs (that and our law enforcement doesn't really care, almost every canadian uses sharing like limewire. lol)
Let's clear some things up here, regarding Fair use, because I suspect you are referencing an element of copyright law you aren't actually versed in. (portions taken from wikipedia)

Fair Use: Fair use is a doctrine in United States copyright law that allows limited use of copyrighted material without requiring permission from the rights holders, such as for commentary, criticism, news reporting, research, teaching or scholarship. It provides for the legal, non-licensed citation or incorporation of copyrighted material in another author's work under a four-factor balancing test. The term "fair use" originated in the United States. A similar principle, fair dealing, exists in some other common law jurisdictions.

The Fair use balancing test requires that use of copyrighted material conform to 4 criteria:

1. the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes; - The first factor is regarding whether the use in question helps fulfill the intention of copyright law to stimulate creativity for the enrichment of the general public, or whether it aims to only "supersede the objects" of the original for reasons of personal profit. To justify the use as fair, one must demonstrate how it either advances knowledge or the progress of the arts through the addition of something new. A key consideration is the extent to which the use is interpreted as transformative, as opposed to merely derivative.

2. the nature of the copyrighted work; - the availability of copyright protection should not depend on the artistic quality or merit of a work, fair use analyses consider certain aspects of the work to be relevant, such as whether it is fictional or non-fictional, whether it was previously published or unpublished, etc.

3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; - The third factor assesses the quantity or percentage of the original copyrighted work that has been imported into the new work. In general, the less that is used in relation to the whole, e.g., a few sentences of a text for a book review, the more likely that the sample will be considered fair use. However, small portions can violate fair use if they compromise the original work, and whole works can be copied under fair use if they do not substantially harm the original.

4. the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work - The fourth factor measures the effect that the allegedly infringing use has had on the copyright owner's ability to exploit his or her original work. The court not only investigates whether the defendant's specific use of the work has significantly harmed the copyright owner's market, but also whether such uses in general, if widespread, would harm the potential market of the original.


Fair Dealing: (Canadian Eqivalent):

The Canadian concept of fair dealing is similar to that in the UK and Australia. The fair dealing clauses of the Canadian Copyright Act allow users to engage in certain activities relating to research, private study, criticism, review, or news reporting. With respect to criticism, review, and news reporting, the user must mention the source of the material, along with the name of the author, performer, maker, or broadcaster for the dealing to be fair. It is important to note that unlike fair use in the United States, which recognizes that parody can be fair, fair dealing in Canada has not definitely been found to contain exceptions for parody. A Quebec Court of Appeal in Les productions Avanti Cine Video v. Favreau (4 Aug 1999) recognized that parody could potentially be a 'critique', however it refused to recognize the exception in that circumstances as the defendants had tried to 'capitalize on' the popularity of the original work.

The 2004 ruling by the Supreme Court of Canada in CCH Canadian Ltd. v. Law Society of Upper Canada has gone far in clarifying the concept of fair dealing in Canada. In considering fair dealing the Court makes the following general observation:

It is important to clarify some general considerations about exceptions to copyright infringement. Procedurally, a defendant is required to prove that his or her dealing with a work has been fair; however, the fair dealing exception is perhaps more properly understood as an integral part of the Copyright Act than simply a defence. Any act falling within the fair dealing exception will not be an infringement of copyright. The fair dealing exception, like other exceptions in the Copyright Act, is a user's right. In order to maintain the proper balance between the rights of a copyright owner and users' interests, it must not be interpreted restrictively.

Furthermore, by taking "a liberal approach to the enumerated purposes of the dealing", the Court has made fair dealing more flexible, reducing the gap between this provision and US fair use

It then establishes six principal criteria for evaluating fair dealing.

1. The Purpose of the Dealing Is it for research, private study, criticism, review or news reporting? It expresses that "these allowable purposes should not be given a restrictive interpretation or this could result in the undue restriction of users' rights." In particular, the Court gave a "a large and liberal interpretation" to the notion of research, stating that "lawyers carrying on the business of law for profit are conducting research".
2. The Character of the Dealing How were the works dealt with? Was there a single copy or were multiple copies made? Were these copies distributed widely or to a limited group of people? Was the copy destroyed after being used? What is the general practice in the industry?
3. The Amount of the Dealing How much of the work was used? What was the importance of the infringed work? Quoting trivial amounts may alone sufficiently establish fair dealing as there would not be copyright infringement at all. In some cases even quoting the entire work may be fair dealing. The amount of the work taken must be fair in light of the purpose of the dealing.
4. Alternatives to the Dealing Was a "non-copyrighted equivalent of the work" available to the user? Was the dealing "reasonably necessary to achieve the ultimate purpose"?
5. The Nature of the Work Copying from a work that has never been published could be more fair than from a published work "in that its reproduction with acknowledgement could lead to a wider public dissemination of the work - one of the goals of copyright law. If, however, the work in question was confidential, this may tip the scales towards finding that the dealing was unfair."
6. Effect of the Dealing on the Work Is it likely to affect the market of the original work? "Although the effect of the dealing on the market of the copyright owner is an important factor, it is neither the only factor nor the most important factor that a court must consider in deciding if the dealing is fair."

Though the Supreme Court outlined these six criteria, it noted that in some contexts, factors other than those listed may be relevant in determining whether a particular dealing is fair.


Under the above noted descriptions, Canadian Fair Dealing is significantly more restrictive than American fair use, particularly since Parody and Satire are covered under "commentary" in fair use, but are not expressly covered by Fair Dealing.

All that notwithstanding, neither element of copyright law says anything about file sharing or hardware.

-m
 

Matt_LRR

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samsonguy920 said:
Matt_LRR said:
You know that canada doesn't actually have a fair use provision in our copyright law, right? That, in fact, our rules in that regard are significantly more restrictive than those in the states?

-m
Considering organizations like the Music Recording Industry, MPAA(movie industry), and software industry among others based out of the US completely ignore fair use as well as teach their customers to believe that fair use doesn't exist, I'd say there probably isn't much difference in restriction. Not as long as civil courts continue to support the industries in lawsuits.
In all likelyhood copyright laws in Canada are probably more respected, but not as bloodthirsty.
You can thank the DMCA for circumventing Fair Use provisions. Why sue content creators directly when you can force content portals to take down fair use items in a way that requires the accused creators to prove their use is fair at their own expense, knowing all the while they can't possibly afford to defend themselves?

-m
 

samsonguy920

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Matt_LRR said:
You can thank the DMCA for circumventing Fair Use provisions. Why sue content creators directly when you can force content portals to take down fair use items in a way that requires the accused creators to prove their use is fair at their own expense, knowing all the while they can't possibly afford to defend themselves?

-m
There has been circumventing going on since about the beginning of the 20th Century, when big business discovered it didn't have to use guns to get what it wanted.
These days it isn't so much about making sure people know who made the item, but making sure nobody can even actually own it. In the US there have been repeated statements by game publishers and other entertainment forms that say they aren't selling the media to people, but merely leasing it(basically they don't want to cut the cord). I'm thinking that's what the IIPA is trying to get Canada to follow through on.
 

Giest118

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Mar 23, 2009
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A Canadian going on about national identity and how Canada is totally different from America, like seriously?

I HAVE TOTALLY NEVER HEARD THAT ONE BEFORE.

Seriously, I swear some Canadians are completely incapable of making a point without pointing out that they are, in fact, Canadian, and way more awesome than Americans.
 

wasalp

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ShadowsofHope said:
Matt_LRR said:
Shynobee said:
I'm sorry, but the only interesting thing I got out of this is that there is a stereotype the Canadians hate Toronto?

Wtf? I mean, sure the Leafs suck and all, but why Toronto? I'd figure that someplace in Quebec would get the hate...
... because Toronto is as American as a place can be in canada without actually being in America.

-m
Basically this.

Quebec hates the rest of Canada, not the other way around. (ie. Quebec Referendum)
people people, its not Quebec its the french(who mostly reside in Quebec). I do not live in Quebec(I'm french so is most of the people I know) and we all hate everything: the British, Jews,protestants, Hinduism, Germans, Arabs, Chinese, Africans, Americans, Mexicans, Australians, Russians, Taiwanese,Koreans,etc. (the only place from afar we do like is Amsterdam(well the young people do))