The Needles: Don't Blame Canada

[Playbahnosh]

[wall of legal text]

Do you think any of this has any relevance on the Internet? Of course not. I love how some industries based on America think, that they rule everything. The only reason why two-thirds of the Earth's population is not in prison right now for copyright infringement, is that they can't police the internet...yet. The internet knows no borders, laws and it doesn't belong to anyone's jurisdiction. Although there are already some totally unfair and idiotic "laws" forced in place by certain American industrial interests.

The thing is, copyright has no place on the Internet. Fair use (not the American Fair Use law, mind you) of creative works, free sharing and co-operation is the future, and there is no place for profit hungry, cruel and evil mega corporations.

Although I fear for the future, because after this alleged "Global War on Terror", courtesy of USA (that is, War For Oil), the next thing that will probably happen is a "Global War on Piracy", where the US bombs and invades each and every country suspected of "illegal" and "copyright infringing" activities, in the name of "freedom" and "peace".

Yeah, right, another hate-speech against America, but please understand, that I don't hate the people who live in America, I hate the people who support and participate in such dreadful acts.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

American here: I am disappointed in my country's copyright laws, to be frank. A lot of them make little sense, and so many are obviously the result of intense lobbying. It's really annoying when business interests matter more to your country than individuals' rights. I'm sure that this happens to an extent in other countries also, but it still ticks me off.

Canadian here: Our societies have been revolving around big industrial business firms for quite awhile now. I agree with you; Individual rights are more important than the agenda of some rich CEO living in a mansion far away. Don't blame Canada, blame the polarization of political power that is an ongoing occurrence here in North America.

EDIT: My connection is buggy today, sorry for the double post.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

American here: I am disappointed in my country's copyright laws, to be frank. A lot of them make little sense, and so many are obviously the result of intense lobbying. It's really annoying when business interests matter more to your country than individuals' rights. I'm sure that this happens to an extent in other countries also, but it still ticks me off.

Canadian here: Our societies have been revolving around big industrial business firms for quite awhile now. I agree with you; Individual rights are more important than the agenda of some rich CEO living in a mansion far away. Don't blame Canada, blame the polarization of political power that is an ongoing occurrence here in North America.

 

[Matt_LRR]

[wall of legal text]

Do you think any of this has any relevance on the Internet? Of course not. I love how some industries based on America think, that they rule everything. The only reason why two-thirds of the Earth's population is not in prison right now for copyright infringement, is that they can't police the internet...yet. The internet knows no borders, laws and it doesn't belong to anyone's jurisdiction. Although there are already some totally unfair and idiotic "laws" forced in place by certain American industrial interests.

The thing is, copyright has no place on the Internet. Fair use (not the American Fair Use law, mind you) of creative works, free sharing and co-operation is the future, and there is no place for profit hungry, cruel and evil mega corporations.

Although I fear for the future, because after this alleged "Global War on Terror", courtesy of USA (that is, War For Oil), the next thing that will probably happen is a "Global War on Piracy", where the US bombs and invades each and every country suspected of "illegal" and "copyright infringing" activities, in the name of "freedom" and "peace".

Yeah, right, another hate-speech against America, but please understand, that I don't hate the people who live in America, I hate the people who support and participate in such dreadful acts.

Speaking as a content creator that collects a paycheque from video work published on the internet, much of which falls under fair use or fair dealing, and who has been the victim of incontestable DMCA take-downs in the past, yes, I do think this is relevant on the internet.

Whatever your opinion of how things "should" work, how they should and how they actually do are entirely different animals.

-m

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

I say we screw off America, they need the world more than the world needs them. All their manufactured products come from other countries, they really don't export anything of value. All their meat is ladden with so many artifical chemicals that a lot of countries have banned them for violating their respective food laws.

Lets see how important they think their anti-copyright enforcement brigade is then.

 

[Playbahnosh]

Speaking as a content creator that collects a paycheque from video work published on the internet, much of which falls under fair use or fair dealing, and who has been the victim of incontestable DMCA take-downs in the past, yes, I do think this is relevant on the internet.

Whatever your opinion of how things "should" work, how they should and how they actually do are entirely different animals.

-m

Okay, I can go with that. Since you live off of the internet, you are hardly impartial in this matter. You create content to share with others, yet you refuse to share it with others without getting payed first? The world is turning into a very bad and inhospitable place, thanks to big industry. When someone has an idea, they run to the patent office immediately, lest anyone might think of the same thing and steal their profits. Some people create stuff for fun, and to entertain others, yet they won't just share it, no way, they want to get payed for it, get payed for self-gratification. And if they don't get payed, they just sit on the stuff so no-one could see it, and steal their precious ideas and content, even if they created that stuff to entertain other people. You don't think there is at least something wrong with that picture?

See, I'm a content creator too, and I publish my works on the internet, just the same. The only difference is, I publish my work for free. I share my work with others, and I enjoy sharing my creations so other people can enjoy them too. I enjoy creating them, I enjoy giving them, and other people are happy to be entertained by them. I won't ask payment for something that I myself create for free.

But I do know what you mean. Everyone has to eat, pay the bills and fill the tank, right? But for gods' sake, just look at what we are doing with this world! Original ideas should be shared and celebrated, not sold for money (or failing that, sinking into obscurity), original works of art and other creations should be displayed for everyone to enjoy, not just the select few, who can shell out the cash for it. Does Public Domain mean anything to you[footnote]no, I'm talking about the band[/footnote]?

You might say, that I'm talking some utopistic nonsense, but I do believe the world should be like that.

 

[guardian001]

You create content to share with others, yet you refuse to share it with others without getting payed first?

LRR has actually been creating and releasing videos since before youtube was around (since 2004, IIRC), completely for free. It's only recently that their videos started to get licensed out to the escapist... So yeah, they're definitely only in it for the money. The 6 years of free content before that were totally not important.

Incidentally, people who issue DMCA takedown notices don't give a flying crap if you release your content for free or for pay. If they think it violates their copyright, they'll have it taken down or sue your ass off trying.

 

[Fearzone]

Oh yeah, Canada, I've heard of that country... where exactly is it again?

 

[theultimateend]

The Needles: Don't Blame Canada

Thanks, Yanks, but our copyright laws are doing just fine without your help.

Read Full Article

Thank you.

I have a modded DS, PSP, and Wii and none of them are used for pirating. I use them for convenience.

Playing any of my DS games out on the road without fear of losing a 30-40 dollar game is nice. Same with PSP (which also can play my PSX collection ). The wii is a no brainer, USB loader is faster and far more convenient than swapping all my games out. I can wii fit in the mornings without flopping discs about like a retard.

The tools don't make you a criminal. They have many wonderful purpose outside of law breaking.

I say we screw off America, they need the world more than the world needs them. All their manufactured products come from other countries, they really don't export anything of value. All their meat is ladden with so many artifical chemicals that a lot of countries have banned them for violating their respective food laws.

Lets see how important they think their anti-copyright enforcement brigade is then.

I do wish in the US we prided ourself on US made products (in fact having states compete for best quality products would be good for everyone) and also wish our food wasn't killing us.

HFCS...seriously guys...sugar isn't that damn hard to grow.

But yeah. I get your point. Course you are more angry at a group of a few thousand people and pointing the finger at over 300 million.

 

[Cain_Zeros]

Goddamn Yanks just can't handle us being different can they?

I hope you realize that at least some Americans (like me) are actually disturbed by the actions of our country. Canada is definitely in the right, here. The problem is that the US probably won't have any useful copyright reform for a while, as the government is controlled by business.

Yes, I'm well aware of that, but it's more fun to play off the stereotype that you're a bunch of whackos who actually agree with everything their government does. I'm pretty sure it's impossibly for an entire country to actually be that complacent.

 

[Matt_LRR]

Speaking as a content creator that collects a paycheque from video work published on the internet, much of which falls under fair use or fair dealing, and who has been the victim of incontestable DMCA take-downs in the past, yes, I do think this is relevant on the internet.

Whatever your opinion of how things "should" work, how they should and how they actually do are entirely different animals.

-m

Okay, I can go with that. Since you live off of the internet, you are hardly impartial in this matter. You create content to share with others, yet you refuse to share it with others without getting payed first? The world is turning into a very bad and inhospitable place, thanks to big industry. When someone has an idea, they run to the patent office immediately, lest anyone might think of the same thing and steal their profits. Some people create stuff for fun, and to entertain others, yet they won't just share it, no way, they want to get payed for it, get payed for self-gratification. And if they don't get payed, they just sit on the stuff so no-one could see it, and steal their precious ideas and content, even if they created that stuff to entertain other people. You don't think there is at least something wrong with that picture?

See, I'm a content creator too, and I publish my works on the internet, just the same. The only difference is, I publish my work for free. I share my work with others, and I enjoy sharing my creations so other people can enjoy them too. I enjoy creating them, I enjoy giving them, and other people are happy to be entertained by them. I won't ask payment for something that I myself create for free.

But I do know what you mean. Everyone has to eat, pay the bills and fill the tank, right? But for gods' sake, just look at what we are doing with this world! Original ideas should be shared and celebrated, not sold for money (or failing that, sinking into obscurity), original works of art and other creations should be displayed for everyone to enjoy, not just the select few, who can shell out the cash for it. Does Public Domain mean anything to you[footnote]no, I'm talking about the band[/footnote]?

You might say, that I'm talking some utopistic nonsense, but I do believe the world should be like that.

Hi, my name is Matt Wiggins, member of LoadingReadyRun, creators of web videos published online, for free, since October 2003, 6 months before YouTube came into existence. In that time, my friends and I have produced more than 400 videos, and provided them, free of charge for anyone to consume under a creative commons license.

ALL of those videos were produced in the spare time of the members of the group, who all held down 9-5 jobs to pay the bills. We have collectively done almost nothing but eat, sleep, work and make videos for seven years. I have personally put off grad school, and set aside my career plans to make videos I wasn't getting paid for simply because I loved making them so much.

By sheer good fortune, our video work has been picked up under contract by The Escapist here, so pardon fucking me if I don't see a problem with accepting some hard earned pay for nearly a decade's worth of commitment and hard work.

And incidentally, we ARE still publishing our work for free, to be enjoyed and celebrated by anybody.

So maybe you want to get off your high horse before preaching to me about the plight of the starving artist.

-m

 

[commasplice]

Speaking as a content creator that collects a paycheque from video work published on the internet, much of which falls under fair use or fair dealing, and who has been the victim of incontestable DMCA take-downs in the past, yes, I do think this is relevant on the internet.

Whatever your opinion of how things "should" work, how they should and how they actually do are entirely different animals.

-m

Okay, I can go with that. Since you live off of the internet, you are hardly impartial in this matter. You create content to share with others, yet you refuse to share it with others without getting payed first? The world is turning into a very bad and inhospitable place, thanks to big industry. When someone has an idea, they run to the patent office immediately, lest anyone might think of the same thing and steal their profits. Some people create stuff for fun, and to entertain others, yet they won't just share it, no way, they want to get payed for it, get payed for self-gratification. And if they don't get payed, they just sit on the stuff so no-one could see it, and steal their precious ideas and content, even if they created that stuff to entertain other people. You don't think there is at least something wrong with that picture?

See, I'm a content creator too, and I publish my works on the internet, just the same. The only difference is, I publish my work for free. I share my work with others, and I enjoy sharing my creations so other people can enjoy them too. I enjoy creating them, I enjoy giving them, and other people are happy to be entertained by them. I won't ask payment for something that I myself create for free.

But I do know what you mean. Everyone has to eat, pay the bills and fill the tank, right? But for gods' sake, just look at what we are doing with this world! Original ideas should be shared and celebrated, not sold for money (or failing that, sinking into obscurity), original works of art and other creations should be displayed for everyone to enjoy, not just the select few, who can shell out the cash for it. Does Public Domain mean anything to you[footnote]no, I'm talking about the band[/footnote]?

You might say, that I'm talking some utopistic nonsense, but I do believe the world should be like that.

Hi, my name is Matt Wiggins, member of LoadingReadyRun, creators of web videos published online, for free, since October 2003, 6 months before YouTube came into existence. In that time, my friends and I have produced more than 400 videos, and provided them, free of charge for anyone to consume under a creative commons license.

ALL of those videos were produced in the spare time of the members of the group, who all held down 9-5 jobs to pay the bills. We have collectively done almost nothing but eat, sleep, work and make videos for seven years. I have personally put off grad school, and set aside my career plans to make videos I wasn't getting paid for simply because I loved making them so much.

By sheer good fortune, our video work has been picked up under contract by The Escapist here, so pardon fucking me if I don't see a problem with accepting some hard earned pay for nearly a decade's worth of commitment and hard work.

And incidentally, we ARE still publishing our work for free, to be enjoyed and celebrated by anybody.

So maybe you want to get off your high horse before preaching to me about the plight of the starving artist.

-m

I, for one, appreciate your contribution to the internet and the fact that you publish your stuff for free. I'm not really sure that Playbahnosh understands that just because you make something for the enjoyment of others doesn't mean that you don't deserve to get paid for it.

In her spare time, my mother likes to knit. She does it so often that she's even opened up a shop on Etsy. Sure, plenty of other people knit hats and sweaters to give as presents, but she still takes time out of her day--that she could be spending doing something else--just so that she can make things that people have requested. That time has value to her. She's not going to spend 8 hours knitting a scarf for some stranger and expect nothing in return.

Yeah, it's certainly different than programming a video game or filming a series of web videos, but the principle is still the same. These people spend their own time and money working on these projects. Whether the makers do it out of love for what they do or for the enjoyment of others is largely irrelevant. They still deserve to be compensated.

 

[Weaver]

Going by these charts I don't see why they're so pissed at us:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sof_pir_rat-crime-software-piracy-rate

Oh no, we're 91st in piracy rates out of 107.

To be honest, if I download a movie from the internet (about the only thing I download really) it's for the following reasons
1) the nearest rental store is a 40 minute walk away
2) I have no car (being a student)
3) no buses go there (since the city is run by a bunch of dicks who refuse to increase transit service)
4) It's Canada, you try going for a 40 minute walk in a fucking blizzard. I bet a lot of other people have not experienced -20 or -30 (with windchill) degree weather.
5) I'm bored and can't go anywhere because it's TOO COLD.

 

[Lost In The Void]

No, Alberta is Canada's deep south. Oil, conservatism, cowboys and Christians as far as the eye can see.

Totonto is just big, grey, and dull.

-m

I would be offended, living in Northern Alberta, but unfortunately it's true. So I instead say, Do not judge me, by the actions of my countrymen. Seriously BC is beautiful I'm jealous I'm stuck in the Conservative oil-fucking-province

 

[Dublin Solo]

I'm sorry, but the only interesting thing I got out of this is that there is a stereotype the Canadians hate Toronto?

Wtf? I mean, sure the Leafs suck and all, but why Toronto? I'd figure that someplace in Quebec would get the hate...

... because Toronto is as American as a place can be in canada without actually being in America.

-m

Basically this.

Quebec hates the rest of Canada, not the other way around. (ie. Quebec Referendum)

people people, its not Quebec its the french(who mostly reside in Quebec). I do not live in Quebec(I'm french so is most of the people I know) and we all hate everything: the British, Jews,protestants, Hinduism, Germans, Arabs, Chinese, Africans, Americans, Mexicans, Australians, Russians, Taiwanese,Koreans,etc. (the only place from afar we do like is Amsterdam(well the young people do))

Err... That's a broad generalization! I am a French-speaking person living in Quebec, and I'm not xenophobic, along with the vast majority of French-speaking people I spend my day with. I think the hate comes from education and personal experience, more than nationality or language!

 

[Playbahnosh]

Hi, my name is Matt Wiggins, member of LoadingReadyRun, creators of web videos published online, for free, since October 2003, 6 months before YouTube came into existence. In that time, my friends and I have produced more than 400 videos, and provided them, free of charge for anyone to consume under a creative commons license.

ALL of those videos were produced in the spare time of the members of the group, who all held down 9-5 jobs to pay the bills. We have collectively done almost nothing but eat, sleep, work and make videos for seven years. I have personally put off grad school, and set aside my career plans to make videos I wasn't getting paid for simply because I loved making them so much.

Look, I didn't mean to offend you in any way, if I did, I'm sorry. I don't want this turned into a dick measuring contest. I can cite numbers and boast about any number of things I created and published along the years too, but what's the point of that? I don't measure my self-worth with the number of things I publish or the number of people entertained by my work. It's really admirable what you did, I mean it, creating videos is not an easy work, I know, I did that too. I watched some of your videos, and they are really good. And as you said, you really did it for fun, as a hobby, and for free. But now, you so vehemently leap to the defense of your paycheck.

By sheer good fortune, our video work has been picked up under contract by The Escapist here, so pardon fucking me if I don't see a problem with accepting some hard earned pay for nearly a decade's worth of commitment and hard work.

Pardon me, but as I recall from your writing, no one forced you to do what you did. You yourself put all those things on your own shoulders, the decade's worth of commitment and the hard work too. Nobody stood behind you and made you create videos, and for free, nonetheless. I can only guess, but I think when you made those videos back then, the sense of accomplishment and the appreciation of the people who liked your work was enough gratification, right? And now you suddenly feel entitled to get paid for it?

Okay, I know, people can get really aggravated when money comes into play, and I really don't want to diminish your accomplishments or contributions in any way, I'd just like to have a converstation, to see your motives too. Fair enough?

Say, if somehow you suddenly stop to get paid for your videos, would you stop making them? Are you doing it for the money? Are doing it for you? Are you doing it for other people?

I, for one, appreciate your contribution to the internet and the fact that you publish your stuff for free. I'm not really sure that Playbahnosh understands that just because you make something for the enjoyment of others doesn't mean that you don't deserve to get paid for it.

You are right, I really don't understand it, not anymore. I did, but after all these years, and a lot of thinking, it really makes no sense. I agree, artists should be supported and celebrated, because without them, our days would be gray, dull and mostly without purpose. Without artists there would be no culture or even society as we know it today. Yet somehow today's society sees artists and creative works, art, as a simple commodity, that can be purchased and sold. That's wrong, so very wrong.

Whether the makers do it out of love for what they do or for the enjoyment of others is largely irrelevant. They still deserve to be compensated.

Is that so? Deserve? This is, again, that notion of entitlement, to get paid for something someone does for free and for the enjoyment of others. Irrelevant? Is it? If wasn't for that love for what they do and the sense of accomplishment, all those artists wouldn't be here where they are today. If, say, Matt here didn't do what he did for the sole purpose of entertaining others, and for free, he wouldn't be publishing on the Escapist now. And as he said, he didn't get here because he was entitled to get hired by the Escapist, he himself noted, that it was sheer, pure luck.

Okay, I'm not really good with the English language still, and maybe you misunderstood me. I have no problems with Matt, you, or anyone else here. Quite the contrary, I really respect Matt as an artist and what he accomplished and does so today. The fact that you immediatly leap to defend him shows, that he has some very loyal fans, and it's a good thing. I don't have a problem with people, no. I have a problem with society and where it's going. Where art and to produce stuff for the sole purpose of entertaining other people became a job, and suddenly everyone who ever created anything or came up with new ideas feels entitled to get paid for it. Where art is a good to be traded, and not something to be displayed for the enjoyment of all. The value of a piece of art is really the value on it's pricetag? It should be measured on an entirely different scale, or better yet, not measured at all, since all art is important, and we couldn't live without it. Copyright laws try to enforce the latter, that a unique creation is only worth what it costs, and that no art should be shared without the exchange of money. That's wrong, IMHO.

 

[Andy Chalk]

As this thread proves, one of the biggest problems with being "encouraged" by the US to behave in one way or another is that it inevitably inspires a lot of knee-jerk anti-Americanism, making the whole thing difficult to discuss reasonably. I think that's one of the main reasons why we haven't seen any kind of move to US-style copyright reform in Canada yet; the average mouth-breather couldn't care less about copyright laws, but the damn Americans trying to tell us what to do? Hell no!

(So in that regard, I suppose it has served something of a useful purpose.)

There are substantial differences between US and Canadian laws, such as Matt broke down in the differences between "fair use" and "fair dealing." Most people don't realize that, which I think in large part is because most people don't have enough respect for the law to bother figuring it out. I'm certainly no expert and I'm not trying to come across that way (I've found Matt's posts to be quite informative so far) but just recognizing that these differences exist at all is an important step toward being able to talk about it like grown-ups.

Anyway, back to the original point. Canada is obviously not a "piracy haven" like China or the Philippines, and studies have demonstrated that Canada's rate of piracy is actually among the lowest in the world. So what's the deal? The only explanation is that the list, in this case at least, is being used not to combat IP crime, but as a foreign policy tool to effect legislative changes in other, sovereign nations. And that is hugely inappropriate. The "fuckin' Americans" reaction expressed in some posts in this thread is the wrong approach to take, but I don't think that better-considered anger is inappropriate at all.

 

[Nerf Ninja]

Going by these charts I don't see why they're so pissed at us:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_sof_pir_rat-crime-software-piracy-rate

Oh no, we're 91st in piracy rates out of 107.

I refuse to believe that The USA is at 107!

Surely this data is skewed by the fact that there are more people in America?

 

[John Funk]

I'm in support of the pirate parties in around the world. They are legitimate political parties lobbying for a copyright reform. The laws are too strict, not too lax, and they should be changed. I'll believe the government is sensible and the country is free when it's legal to download music without money being involved, when data is a right.

I'm no fan of overly strict and nonsensical copyright laws, but how dare people want to make money off of the stuff that they work hard on creating?! What an outrage!

I swear, the internet has just created a population of leeches.

 

[Matt_LRR]

I don't have a problem with people, no. I have a problem with society and where it's going. Where art and to produce stuff for the sole purpose of entertaining other people became a job, and suddenly everyone who ever created anything or came up with new ideas feels entitled to get paid for it. Where art is a good to be traded, and not something to be displayed for the enjoyment of all. The value of a piece of art is really the value on it's pricetag? It should be measured on an entirely different scale, or better yet, not measured at all, since all art is important, and we couldn't live without it. Copyright laws try to enforce the latter, that a unique creation is only worth what it costs, and that no art should be shared without the exchange of money. That's wrong, IMHO.

The idea of getting paid for art isn't a new idea. Hell, the Sistine Chapel was painted on contract, and it's considered one of history's greatest works. So was Michelangelo's David. Upon finishing the Mona Lisa, Leonardo Da Vinci sold it to the king of france for 4000 ecus.

Art HAS monetary value. Sometimes art is created to pay the bills, other times art is created out of love and sold. That doesn't undermine it's quality as art. The value of art goes beyond the materials used to craft it. There's an investment of creativity, time, money, resources and work involved in crafting a piece of art. The only way to support the continued production of art is to compensate the creators for their creations. There is nothing unreasonable about creating art with the hope that someone will enjoy it enough to wish to compensate you for making it.

I think there are all kinds of problems with the arts these days, from profiteering and price gouging by music labels, to expectation of compensation in the millions by artists, to insufficient arts funding by governments, to unreasonable and over-reaching copright laws designed to protect corporate interest over the production of creative works (and the extension of that reach accross borders, as per this article). What ISN'T a problem is the simple expectation of an artist to be able to earn a livable wage while pursuing their craft.

-m